Australia/NZ Wings Group Build

[stevehnz]

What's a good kit in 1/72 for a Kiwi Skyhawk, back when they still had them? Such a shame they're gone, easily my favorite Commonwealth roundel.

The Fujimi A4E/F is the best kit for the post kahu Skyhawks, the Italeri or Hasegawa A4E/F with the Avionics hump can be used for the pre Kahu planes. Some mods need on all of these, most obviously the squared off fin & some fin aerials etc.

Steve

[ross blackford]

:D/>, We're doing well on the interest side but who would like to provide the list of Kiwi types for our inspiration and edification. This can also include civilian types as well as military types. In WW1 all major British types were flown by Aussies in the various campaigns of that war. After the war there was the England-Australia first flgiht by Ross and Keith Smith flying a Vickers Vimy. A replica of this bird was built for the Bicentennial Airshow 25 years ago this year. After the war Australia also received the Imperial Gift which included aircraft. In fact, at one point in time in its infancy the newly formed RAAF had more aircraft than it did personnel. There were Avro 504K trainers, SE5 fighters, DH bombers. In the twenties the RAAF received Bristol Bulldogs, Hawker Demons, Westland Wapitis and there were also some home grown types. The Wackett Warrigal and Wackett amphibian and on the civil side the Lasco Lascoter, Lasconder and Lascowl which was a modified ANEC III were designed and built or modified locally. The Lascoter was the first all metal aircraft designed and built here in the late 20s. Sadly the Lascoter was sitting in the back of the old Lasco hangar at Coode Island near Melbourne during WW2 after the RAAF had taken over the place. No one knew what it was (how quickly we forget) and in 1943 it was dragged away and scrapped. What would it be worth today seeing as it was the only one? Especially in airworthy condition. There were of course many other home grown light aircraft such as the Amsco Monoplane, a light parasol wing monoplane of which only 2 or 3 photos seem to exist now. Also the Silver Century designed and built by an amateur home builder by the name of Ford in the 20s. It never received a CofA back then but has been restored and is now fully registered and in the air.

:cheers:/>,

Ross

Edited February 10, 2013 by ross blackford

[Procopius]

The Fujimi A4E/F is the best kit for the post kahu Skyhawks, the Italeri or Hasegawa A4E/F with the Avionics hump can be used for the pre Kahu planes. Some mods need on all of these, most obviously the squared off fin & some fin aerials etc.

Steve

Thanks, Steve! Much obliged. My local hobby shop has a forlorn old Fujimi sitting about, I'll try and snaffle it when next I go.

[Sebastijan]

Just ordered Kahu decals :D

[ross blackford]

:D, Good one Seb. 1/72 or 1/48?

,

Ross.

[Sebastijan]

72 As usual

[LDSModeller]

:D/>/>/>/>/>/>, We're doing well on the interest side but who would like to provide the list of Kiwi types for our inspiration and edification. This can also include civilian types as well as military types.

:cheers:/>/>/>/>/>/>,

Ross

Hi Ross

For those who are adventurous, the Aircraft built by Richard Pearse, who purportedly

was the first to fly a powered aircraft in the world just prior to the Wright Brothers.

Records now show it was after the Wright Brothers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Pearse

1913 New Zealand received a Blériot XI monoplane – Britannia to begin fledging Fly Corp

WWI 1915

Walsh Brothers who had a school in what is now known as Mission Bay, Auckland, built their

own flying boats (modelled after a US type) helped train pilots for the Great War (RNAS/RFC)

Post WWI, New Zealand also received "Gift" Aircraft from Great Britain to start NZ Air Force

eg Bristol F2B Fighter, AVRO 504K, DeHavilland -DH4

After New Zealand Permanant Air Force came into being (1923), other aircraft types on strength such

as SARO A17m Cutty Sark (Flying Boat), Gloster Grebe, Hawker Hind/Tomtit

Renamed the RNZAF (1937), various other aircraft were/came on strength, such as Vickers Vincent/Vildebeest.

Our first true fighter squadron formed 1941, 488 Squadron - flying the Brewster 339E Buffalo (defense of Singapore)

WWII saw our RNZAF numbers soar as the RNZAF took the war to the Japanese, with Lend Lease

Some extras gained on the way (war Prizes) Me109E, Mitsubishi Zero, Aichi E13A Jake

Post WWII, the Flying Boat era, Sunderland MR5, Malaya Emergency, DH Venom FB-1

a Supermarine Seafire and Fairey Firefly left by Royal Navy during a visit

Modern RNZAF, P3B/K A4K Skyhawk etc including some home grown eg AESL Air Tourer

List of RNZAF aircraft can be found here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_of_the_Royal_New_Zealand_Air_Force_and_Royal_New_Zealand_Navy

List of Military Aircraft and serials

http://www.adf-serials.com/nz-serials/

Civilian side, a number of different aircraft to choose from, most notably Shorts Aircraft

Empire Flying Boat

ZK-AMA

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m169/flyernzl/short%20boats/ZK-AMAaa.jpg

Solent Mk V

TEAL/NAC

Short Sunderland Mk III

Sandringham

Vickers Viscount

Agricultural Aircraft

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:New_Zealand_agricultural_aircraft

There's a whole stack of them, if you're not sure ask away

Regards

Alan

Edited February 11, 2013 by LDSModeller

[ross blackford]

:D, Thank you for the informative reply and the links you've posted. This is the sort of info we need to help us decide what to build for this GB. I hope to provide more info for our Austro-philes in coming posts here. There have been many military and civilian aircraft designed and built or purchased by Australia and New Zealand since the early part of last century. Just one more that I'll mention was the aeroplane built and flown by John Duigan. He was a Victorian, a farmer's son who built and flew his aeroplane (a replica of which exists in the Moorabin Aviation Museum) at his family's farm in western Victoria. He didn't have much success there and later moved his aircraft to Richmond NSW and had much more succes there, the conditions for early flight were more conducive at Richmond than in western Victoria.

,

Ross.

[Cap'n Wannabe]

, Thank you for the informative reply and the links you've posted. This is the sort of info we need to help us decide what to build for this GB. I hope to provide more info for our Austro-philes in coming posts here. There have been many military and civilian aircraft designed and built or purchased by Australia and New Zealand since the early part of last century. Just one more that I'll mention was the aeroplane built and flown by John Duigan. He was a Victorian, a farmer's son who built and flew his aeroplane (a replica of which exists in the Moorabin Aviation Museum) at his family's farm in western Victoria. He didn't have much success there and later moved his aircraft to Richmond NSW and had much more succes there, the conditions for early flight were more conducive at Richmond than in western Victoria.

,

Ross.

I have a feeling the original is in the foyer at the Melbourne Museum, Ross.....or another replica.

[ross blackford]

:D, Thanks for that info damo. I don't know if I'll make the airshow myself this year now. I have to put the Adventra in tomorrow to have the rear diff recoed. That's going to cost me about $1100 so I may have to take a raincheck on Avalon this year. At least if I do have to miss the show I can have a great weekend much closer to home at the air League recreation camp on at a property on the Hawkesbury River near Wiseman's Ferry.

I've just been wondering in the last hour or so whether there would be any support for slightly expanding the scope of this build to enemy aircraft that were, shall we say, "appropriated" by Aussie and Kiwi forces. A couple come to my mind. There was a Henschel Hs-126 captured by 450Sqn in the western desert. It carried the RAF rounbel in the normal 6 positions and the RAF fin flash. It also carried the code OK-? on the fuselage sides. Another aircraft captured by 450Sqn was a brand new Macchi C205. This aircraft had only 45 minutes on the paperwork and was flown a few times by the squadron until RAF intelligence found out they had it and requesitioned it for their purposes. The last CO of the unit told me it was a beautiful aeroplane to fly, wonderfully harmonised controls, faster than their Kittyhawks and with better manouverability.

,

Ross.

[Jinxter13]

Hey Ross, for sure count me in mate, YKW..... ;)

[ross blackford]

:D, Hi Clif, yes IKW and it'll be great to have you aboard. This one looks like it could well be popular. What do people think of my thoughts in my last post? If people think it doesn't fit that's ok, it was just a thought. BTW, I've even seen a photo of a Wirraway in USAAF colours taken at an airfield somewhere near Brisbane.

,

Ross.

[Litvyak]

I think captured stuff operated by Australian and NZ forces should be alright!

And, in the last 'On Canadian Wings' GB, someone built an (IIRC) DHC-5 or somesuch in Royal Malaysian Air Force markings, so I'd suggest along those lines that Australian or NZ-made aircraft in foreign service should be alright, too.

Thoughts?

[Aaronw]

Just my 2 cents on the captured stuff, I'd say of it was used operationally it should be acceptable.

Unlike many larger nations where captured equipment was primarily used for evaluation, or rarely for a short time just due to circumstance. The ANZAC forces by comparison were fairly well known for thier scrounging abilities, even equiping a couple of regiments with captured Italian tanks in North Africa. In my book if it was used operationally beyond a single moment of opportunity, it was equipment of that nation.

The hodgepodge of local built, allied supplied and captured equipment is to me one of the charming features of these nations in WW2.

The Southern Cross has already been mentioned, and the England to Australia flight of 1919 was all Australian crews, but Australia was a destination for other "golden age" feats of aviation. How do you feel about non-Australian / New Zealand contestants in these events? Although not natives they do seem to be a large part of Australian aviation history. The Great London to Melborne race of 1934, or the Vickers Wellesley Egypt to Darwin, Australia flight of 1938?

Edited February 11, 2013 by Aaronw

[ross blackford]

:D, G'day Aaron. There was certainly that element amongst the smaller commonwealth nations. And by the way, we're still known as good scroungers. In Lybia when the Italians surrendered the allies came by a whole lot of vehicles. At one point it's said that air Force Warrant Officers and Flight Sergeants were riding around in very comfortable Italian staff cars thank you very much. It was even said that if the lowliest AC couldn't scrounge himself at least a push bike he was considered to have 'had his finger in', there was just that much equipment captured. I seem to recall reading somewhere that 3Sqn RAAF captured a Bf-109F or G during the desert campaign and it was used operationally until it broke down and they couldn't get parts for it.

Of course a lot of the Italian stuff was diesel and our boys didn't have a great deal of experience with diesel vehicles so when a truck refused to start in the morning an Italian prisoner was detailed to get it going. Also most of our boys had never seen such large trucks in their lives before. A mate of my late Dad's, now in his 90s has written his wartime memoirs and it's sure an interesting read.

,

Ross.

[ross blackford]

:D, G'da again Aaron. I had thought of the England-Austalia Air Race and the Wellesley flight but that was before I thought of these things. I guess if most people think they're appropriate then I can't see why not. BTW, on one of the old hangars above the back doors at Richmond is a carved stone relief of the Wellesley that crashed on take off between the RAAF Base and Richmond town so to this day it's remembered as part of our aviation heritage so I'd have to say that one would have to be appropriate.

,

Ross.

[LDSModeller]

Hi All

As far as the RNZAF went, the Me109E was shot down in Britain during

the BoB, and sent to New Zealand as a thank you by Great Britain.

Used primarily for War Bonds drive, survived till after the war languishing

at one or two RNZAF bases, when the Museums didn't want it, it was scrapped <_</>/>

The Aichi Jake developed a leak in one of it's floats, and now sits at the bottom

of the lagoon in which it was captured.

The Zero was test flown after capture and then sent back to New Zealand, where agin it was test flown.

It was stored at a couple of RNZAF bases in Auckland, eventually given to the war Memorial Museum in Auckland

( warning colours may not be correct)

Link here to full story

http://rnzaf.hobbyvista.com/zero3.html

I suppose, if we were to include Races and or Solo flights, then Jean Batten's

Solo flight's in her Percival Gull (especially England to New Zealand, 1936) probably

should rate too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Batten

By the way Ross count me in for the Group build, have a selection of RNZAF operated

aircraft in my stash, I have a couple in mind to do.

Regards

Alan

Edited February 12, 2013 by LDSModeller

[ross blackford]

:D, Wow Alan, that's a fantastic photo of the Sunderland and the Orion. Thank you for sharing that with us mate. When I was at Wagga the second time in 1976-77 we received a Zero to be restored to static condition. Although I never worked on it the restoration was carried out by some of the adult trainees, apprentices and their instructors. There was even a team of trainee metal workers and their instructors who came down from Amberley (I think) to do the skin repairs. I think that one ended up in the RAAF Museum at Point Cook but I may be wrong on that.

,

Ross.

[ross blackford]

I think captured stuff operated by Australian and NZ forces should be alright!

And, in the last 'On Canadian Wings' GB, someone built an (IIRC) DHC-5 or somesuch in Royal Malaysian Air Force markings, so I'd suggest along those lines that Australian or NZ-made aircraft in foreign service should be alright, too.

Thoughts?

Yes Litvyak, I think we'll accept such types. Just one of the top of my head is the GAF Nomad of the Phillipines Air Force. Another would be the Transavia Airtruk still in civilian service in Serbia as a tourist carrier/sight seeing aircraft.

,

Ross.

[Mumbles]

:D/>, We'd be happy to have you Harald; and anyone else who wants to join us. Jump in, the water's still great here at this time of the year.

I was swimming in Wellington Harbour yesterday so I can vouch for that!

I'm in.

[ross blackford]

:D, G'day Mumbles. I'll probably be swimming in the Hawkesbury River on the 2nd and 3rd of March at the Air League recreation camp. I think I'll need re training as to how to swim it's been so long since I did.

,

Ross.

[Cap'n Wannabe]

Wasn't there at least one Dornier flying boat in RAAF colours that came from the Dutch East Indies? Seem to recall seeing a profile somewhere or other..

[LDSModeller]

:D/>/>/>/>, Wow Alan, that's a fantastic photo of the Sunderland and the Orion. Thank you for sharing that with us mate. When I was at Wagga the second time in 1976-77 we received a Zero to be restored to static condition. Although I never worked on it the restoration was carried out by some of the adult trainees, apprentices and their instructors. There was even a team of trainee metal workers and their instructors who came down from Amberley (I think) to do the skin repairs. I think that one ended up in the RAAF Museum at Point Cook but I may be wrong on that.

:cheers:/>/>/>/>,

Ross.

Hi Ross

That photo means a lot to me, as it has both aircraft that my late Father served with on RNZAF 5 Squadron (at Lauthala Bay (Fiji)/Hobsonville & Whenuapai (Auckland)).

As the Sunderlands were being slowley phased out, he trained at NAS Moffett Field California on the P3 preparing for them to arrive in New Zealand.

I guess in this Group Build, I could also build a RAAF P3C. After retiring from the RNZAF, he worked at CAC at Fishermans Bend, and was posted to Edinburgh to work on the RAAF P3C's. After that, back at CAC (late Hawker DeHavilland) on the Australian manufacture of components for the F/A 18's ( another build there too :D/>/>/> )

Lots to do!!

When I lived in Melbourne, actually lived about 1/2 way between Point Cook and Laverton, great place to be, as I had lots of RAAF aircraft overhead- good times those :D/>/>/>

Regards

Alan

[ross blackford]

Wasn't there at least one Dornier flying boat in RAAF colours that came from the Dutch East Indies? Seem to recall seeing a profile somewhere or other..

We actually received 6 Dorniers from the NEIAF and they overnighted at Broome on their way to Rathmines. As they took off in stream some Japanese fighters appeared suddenly and shot down the last aircraft in the stream. The other 5 made it to Rathmines and were placed in service there. The one that was shot down (or maybe never left the water) is still there and when there's a king low tide the remains of the twin tails become exposed above the water.

,

Ross.

[wh1skea]

Ross, anymore word on this Group Build?