Monogram 1/72 Space Shuttle Discovery *mark II window assembly*

[Mike W.]

AHHH, now that makes sense. Now that I look closer at the pics I posted, you can see the actual hud inside the cover. Thanks for that! So if they are on during processing and during orbit, I assume they would be on for launch and onlt removed for reentry and landing? That would stand to reason. Interesting.

Bill

I would assume that the covers would be off during launch, as the HUD would be needed if the launch was aborted and they made an emergency landing.

Those covers in the on orbit pic you posted look like cloth or plastic to my eye. The second set looks like a hard cover. I'm sure there are plenty of photos out there of them, though.

[Hotdog]

DAYS 22-26

11 hours (61.5 hours total)

Build cost to date: $291.50

I have spent most of the last few days of my build toiling away at the astronauts and the windows. I have achieved success in getting the kit astronauts to look the part, but the windows keep giving me fits. I'll start with the astronauts.

Here they are, painted and decaled, and ready to go into the flight deck. Most of the 11 hours of work in this post was spent trying to get these guys reconfigured into a seated position, using glue, putty and sanding with sticks and the occasional dremel. It was a lot of work, but I'm pretty happy with how they turned out.

Here's a few shots of them dry-fitted in the cockpit.

And now to the windows. I used Future around the edges to "glue" the pieces together, and despite all of my efforts to avoid having the liquid Future seep down between the pieces and onto the face of the windows, it still happened anyway.

This is the best picture I could get showing what happened. They look a lot worse in real life than you can tell in this image. On top of having shiny Future stains on the flat black mullions, there are also a couple of bad spots of Future drippage on the clear parts of the starboard windows. Arrrgh, this is getting frustrating! I don't know how I am to get them glued together and sealed without some visible drippage or staining. Any other ideas besides Future?

I am stripping them with brake fluid now (again!) in the hopes that some of the parts can be salvageable. Luckily, I have another set. I also received Dutycat's beany cap today so if all else fails I can just go with that.

[crowe-t]

The astronauts look great! Expect I feel bad for the Pilot, he's going to get a bad cramp holding his arm up like that. :lol:

Is it possible to hold the window pieces together and just apply some CA around the edges to hold it all together? Maybe a drop every couple of mm's. This is just a thought I had.

Mike.

[K2Pete]

This is the best picture I could get showing what happened. They look a lot worse in real life than you can tell in this image. On top of having shiny Future stains on the flat black mullions, there are also a couple of bad spots of Future drippage on the clear parts of the starboard windows. Arrrgh, this is getting frustrating! I don't know how I am to get them glued together and sealed without some visible drippage or staining. Any other ideas besides Future?

I am stripping them with brake fluid now (again!) in the hopes that some of the parts can be salvageable. Luckily, I have another set. I also received Dutycat's beany cap today so if all else fails I can just go with that.

Uh-h-h Windex will 'strip' the windows of Future, Brake Fluid works on paint ... but Future???

Your seepage problems with Future will probably re-occur, with CA glue too. I mean, CA is really thin stuff, unless you use the gel CA. Seeing as Future is acrylic, coat the window parts, separated by now, with Future, let it all dry and then use CA glue or styrene cement or even white glue, to re-attach the window parts. But they're STILL gonna be a relatively fragile bond.

And when it's all done, and if there are glossy bits on the window frames, just brush on some Clear Flat.

[niart17]

Astronauts look great! I would maybe suggest brushing a little flat coat on the orange parts before you seal it up since the fabric wouldn't shine that much, but if you don't it'll still look good. Are you going to add a couple of mission specialist to the flight deck or just the two pilots? Either way I think would work.

As for the windows, I agree. I would use the mildest stuff you can to take them back apart. I suspect if I were to try to put them together I'd use some Gatorgrip glue (since I have some) or plain 'ol white glue and just use a few dots around the edges applied with maybe a toothpick sharpened to a nice point to hold it together, working really slow and letting each layer dry before going to the next. I don't know if I would use those clamps, they seem a bit harsh for such a fine assembly. Then once it's all to gether maybe run a bead around the completed edge again with a toothpick and not worrying about getting every spot. This should just make the joint a little stronger. Then to glue it in, I might risk using regular Tamiya thin (If I felt I could stop it from seaping)applied to both the windows and the opening. That should hold pretty well I would think. Also, I noticed a lot of dust that may be showing up more due to the camera, but it looks like sanding dust on the clear parts. Again, if I were doing this I think I would get totally away from anywhere where I might have done some sanding or painting or anything model related actually. I'd go into clean room mode and try to keep it as dust free as possible until you have the whole assembly ready to insert. I know it would be hard to wait til the end of the build to install them, but I would put it off as long as possible and then use a good liquid mask once they are in. Again, this is just the way I think I'd do it. It's easy to sit over here and say that, I haven't really made them, but just throwing out some friendly suggestions.

Bill

Edited April 9, 2013 by niart17

[Hotdog]

Uh-h-h Windex will 'strip' the windows of Future, Brake Fluid works on paint ... but Future??? :dontknow:/>

Your seepage problems with Future will probably re-occur, with CA glue too. I mean, CA is really thin stuff, unless you use the gel CA. Seeing as Future is acrylic, coat the window parts, separated by now, with Future, let it all dry and then use CA glue or styrene cement or even white glue, to re-attach the window parts. But they're STILL gonna be a relatively fragile bond.

And when it's all done, and if there are glossy bits on the window frames, just brush on some Clear Flat.

Can you give an example of a gel CA glue?

I can't brush on Clear Flat after they're all put together. Maybe on the outside parts, but the problem is the parts sandwiched between the clear window parts. No way to get a brush inside the "sandwich".

Astronauts look great! I would maybe suggest brushing a little flat coat on the orange parts before you seal it up since the fabric wouldn't shine that much, but if you don't it'll still look good. Are you going to add a couple of mission specialist to the flight deck or just the two pilots? Either way I think would work.

As for the windows, I agree. I would use the mildest stuff you can to take them back apart. I suspect if I were to try to put them together I'd use some Gatorgrip glue (since I have some) or plain 'ol white glue and just use a few dots around the edges applied with maybe a toothpick sharpened to a nice point to hold it together, working really slow and letting each layer dry before going to the next. I don't know if I would use those clamps, they seem a bit harsh for such a fine assembly. Then once it's all to gether maybe run a bead around the completed edge again with a toothpick and not worrying about getting every spot. This should just make the joint a little stronger. Then to glue it in, I might risk using regular Tamiya thin (If I felt I could stop it from seaping)applied to both the windows and the opening. That should hold pretty well I would think. Also, I noticed a lot of dust that may be showing up more due to the camera, but it looks like sanding dust on the clear parts. Again, if I were doing this I think I would get totally away from anywhere where I might have done some sanding or painting or anything model related actually. I'd go into clean room mode and try to keep it as dust free as possible until you have the whole assembly ready to insert. I know it would be hard to wait til the end of the build to install them, but I would put it off as long as possible and then use a good liquid mask once they are in. Again, this is just the way I think I'd do it. It's easy to sit over here and say that, I haven't really made them, but just throwing out some friendly suggestions.

Bill

I plan on picking up some clear flat on my next trip to the hobby store. No Mission Specialists, it was a lot of work just to get these two guys.

There was a lot of dust in that photo because it was taken after I had given up on making them look right. I was still sanding away on the astronauts at that time. When I go back for round 3, I will take the windows back to the clean area of my drawing table.

Thanks everyone for your helpful input and suggestions. I'll let the frustration wear off and I'll try it all again here soon.

[K2Pete]

Can you give an example of a gel CA glue?

I can't brush on Clear Flat after they're all put together. Maybe on the outside parts, but the problem is the parts sandwiched between the clear window parts. No way to get a brush inside the "sandwich".

I can't give you an example of CA gel ... 'cuz I get my CA glue at the DollarStore ... 5 little tubes for a buck! And it works just fine.

And I don't understand what you mean by "I can't brush on Clear Flat after they're all put together" ... it's just paint. :blink: You wrote "On top of having shiny Future stains on the flat black mullions, " ... just paint some Clear Flat on those mullions. It's just to knock the shiny Future off ... or am I misunderstanding you?

And ( In My Most Humble Opinion ) it's too bad you're approaching this build and the 1/100 Shuttle as something besides test-beds. There's a lot to learn about this hobby and the intricacies of working with a variety of materials and with a wide variety of tools and techniques. I understand your frustration ... and that it's probably based on your wanting to do a superb job ... but, as this Shuttle is just your 2nd model ( ... but I could be wrong ) you may be expecting a little too much. I've been back in this hobby for about 5 years and my first bunch of models ... heck, even my current builds ... are all to learn some technique or other. And if they turn out nicely ... BONUS! Yeah, I get frustrated too, but I'm quite happy with the results. Now, I look at my earlier builds and they are noticeably NOT award winners! But I learned a helluva lot during the builds.

The bottom line ... I ... had ... fun ...! Fun researching ... Fun actually trying to replicate something or other and Fun in showing it off at shows and, I might add, FSM a couple or 3, years ago.

So Hotdog, go easy on yourself ... just have fun. Make all the mistakes you want and fix it back up again. Experimentation is a good thing in this hobby.

Oh .. and by all means ... enjoy your builds! It's almost as much fun watching the builds of others too!

Just my 2 cents ...

Pete

[crowe-t]

I like Jetplane's(George) approach to making the Monogram's window's. He glued the clear plastic part on, blended it in with the shuttle and applied a window decal. It's simple but effective and looks like shuttle windows to me. Sometimes a simple approach is the way to go.

Here is George's Monogram Shuttle.

I do however like these windows from Accurate Model Parts(AMP) and I'm sure there are many ways to tackle assembly that will yield good results.

[EDWMatt]

First of all, neat build!

Couple suggestions on the window glue problem. One is watch crystal cement. This is a viscous, clear cement that dries pretty strong and will not fog transparent parts. Comes in a tube with a needle applicator and you can remove it before it dries completely with alcohol. I use this almost exclusively now. Can get it from Micro Mark and sometimes at craft retailers like Michael's, where it's sold in the beading section as 'bead glue'.

Other recommendation is Super Gold superglue. This is a non-fogging gel superglue. Pretty expensive, though (like $11 for a medium bottle, vs. $5 for regular gap-filling.

[Hotdog]

And I don't understand what you mean by "I can't brush on Clear Flat after they're all put together" ... it's just paint. :blink:/> You wrote "On top of having shiny Future stains on the flat black mullions, " ... just paint some Clear Flat on those mullions. It's just to knock the shiny Future off ... or am I misunderstanding you?

Pete,

Understand that the windows are perfect before gluing. No stains. Then you put them all together, along with the clear window parts, and apply the glue/future around the edges. That's when the future seeps down onto the mullions and other inner parts of the assembly. By this time, everything is "glued" (stuck) together. The flat black pieces with the stains are sandwiched between the clear parts. You cannot get a paint brush in there without taking everything apart. So there's no way to get the clear flat on the inner mullions. Does that make sense?

[crowe-t]

Hotdog,

When you are gluing the window pieces together, are you trying to glue all the pieces at one time? If so maybe that's why you are having problems with the glue seeping under the parts.

Mike.

[K2Pete]

When you are gluing the window pieces together, are you trying to glue all the pieces at one time? If so maybe that's why you are having problems with the glue seeping under the parts.

Ah-h-h ... now I understand. I made the assumption that you were gluing a layer, let it dry, glue another layer and so on ... now-w-w I understand.

[Hotdog]

DAYS 27-28

4 hours (65.5 hours total)

Build cost to date: $302.39

It's been nearly a month since I last did anything to this build. I have a new girlfriend keeping me busy! No complaints, but it's nice to get back on task here after a healthy little break. :)/>/>

Time to put the finishing touches on the cockpit and get it lit up!

Here are the seats with the control sticks glued in. I had to place them further down the seat assembly due to the large size of the astronauts.

Here are the astronauts, all glued into their seats. I finally picked up some clear flat and applied it to the suits so they're not so shiny. That had really been bugging me!

Next I glued the seats with the astronauts into the cockpit. I should have done the lights first, but I did this anyway. Here's a few shots in the natural light:

[Hotdog]

Now it's time to drill the holes for the lights and glue them in, making sure to place the bulbs where they will not directly be seen from the outside. I put two up front under the dash, and one behind each bulkhead.

Here's a shot of it lit up in the natural light:

And here are some shots in the dark:

Finally, I taped the fuselage halves together and did a dry fit to see how the lit cockpit will look in the dark from outside of the orbiter. Here's some shots of that:

I'm glad I did this little test, because I noticed quite a bit of shine-through on the fuselage plastic above the flight deck.

I had sprayed the inside of the halves with both silver and a few coats of Tamiya white, but still getting this shine-through. I may hit it with one more inside coat, then cross my fingers and hope the exterior primer and paint will be enough to conceal it.

I'm much happier with the illumination of the cockput on this orbiter vs. the Tamiya shuttle. The lighting is much more realistic this time around, thanks to what I learned from doing that build.

Oh, and I have begun repainting and re-assembling the AMP windows. Hopefully the third time will be the charm! More on that in my next update.

[spaceman]

Great job with the astronauts and the lighting of the cockpit interior. I would the cockpit top paint black, then no light will shine through.

Edited June 1, 2013 by spaceman

[crowe-t]

Hotdog,

Manfred beat me to the punch! As I was looking at the pictures I thought some black paint might do the trick to help block the light.

The cockpit looks great and the lighting really came out nice on this one!

BTW, a new girlfriend is a very good reason for your absence but it's great to see you back at this. :lol:

Mike.

Edited June 2, 2013 by crowe-t

[Hotdog]

DAYS 29-33

16 hours (81.5 hours total)

Build cost to date: $328.48

I don't have a whole lot of progress to show for the past couple of months. In addition to work on the Shutte Tile Detail Set keeping me busy, I had a falling out with my girlfriend that pretty much killed any motivation to work on projects such as this (and my ability to focus). I'm coming out of that now, so I hope to be able to pick back up on this build very soon :)/>/>/>/>

Here's what I did manage to do during the off-time. I carefully drilled out the holes in the Fisher engines.

By the way, the Fisher engines look really really good when test-fitted onto the bulkhead! I can't wait to get these things painted and detailed.

I went ahead and glued the fuselage and wings together. In this picture you can see where I strengthened the seam from the inside with some thin styrene sheet. I'm probably going to have to add another small sheet inside the nose. Not visible in this photo, I used Dutycat's method of inserting very thin styrene to cover the landing gear doors before attaching the wings to the fuselage. I also started drilling out the holes for the RCS thrusters in the nose.

Last but not least, I finished the assembly of the AMP windows. The third time was the charm! I used very very tiny dots of glue applied with a toothpick. I only had one spot where glue seeped down into the assembly and you can see it in the corner of the middle window on the port side. I can live with that though!

I suppose the next step is to start sanding out the frame for the windows into the fuselage. I will also be working to finish the tile sheets so I can have all of the work of gluing them on and sanding them down finished before it's time to attach the delicate windows and cockpit.

[spaceman]

Hotdog,

the Fisher engines look really great, it's a pity that not there in 1:144.

You can be really happy with your third attempt with the AMP windows. Now only pay attention, if you'll brush the orbiter this time and tape the window carefully from.

Edited August 12, 2013 by spaceman

[Hotdog]

Hotdog,

the Fisher engines look really great, it's a pity that not there in 1:144. :crying2:/>

You can be really happy with your third attempt with the AMP windows. :thumbsup:/> Now only pay attention, if you'll brush the orbiter this time and tape the window carefully from. :coolio:/>

:wave:/>

Thanks Manfred! Yes, you can bet I will be masking the windows up good with tape this time! There will be no repeat of what happened with the Tamiya shuttle windows! I've worked too hard on these!

[spaceman]

Cheer up and bite your teeth together, I push you two thumbs.

[crowe-t]

Hotdog, I'm glad you were able to tackle the AMP windows. They look great! I can't wait to see them installed.

Those Fisher SSME's look fantastic. How will you be painting them? With metalizer paints???

Mike.

[Hotdog]

Mike,

I have purchased the metalizer paints and I've come up with quite a meticulous recipe for how I will paint and detail the engines in a way that I hope will be worthy of these fine aftermarket engine parts. I am testing my techniques on the Monogram nozzles first to make sure they will work. My plan is quite complicated (at least for me) so I'm waiting until the tiles are done so I can invest my complete focus into the engines. Like the cockpit, I consider the engines a "build within a build".

[crowe-t]

Hotdog, I can't wait to see the tiles applied. So far they look great in the picture you posted.

What metalizer paints did you purchase? Terstors, Alclad...?

Mike.

[Hotdog]

DAYS 34-35

16 hours (86 hours total)

Build cost to date: $328.48

It's time to begin the process of sanding away at the fuselage. I decided to start with one of the starboard side window frames for the AMP window kit.

First I used the stencil included with the AMP window kit to create masks out of Tamiya tape for both the exterior and interior sides of the windows. Gotta keep those babies protected!

I also used the tape masks to help draw out the areas on the fuselage that would need to be sanded out, as you can see in the above photo. You would think I could have done this just by wrapping the stencil around the fuselage, but that was a bit too imprecise for me. Using the tape method, I could get both sides to line up exactly where they needed to be. You can't do this with the stencil alone, as the cutouts are not angled correctly.

Here is the newly cutout window frame, after about 3 hours worth of tedious sanding:

As it would turn out, the stencils from the AMP kit only give you a starting point. The window frame will end up being wider than the stencil shape due to the thickness of the window assembly. This is why it took 3 hours of sanding to get it right.

This photo will show you the contrast between the window frame sizes. The original window frame is on the port side, and the new AMP window sized frame is on the starboard side.

And finally, here is the window frame showing the masked AMP windows dry-fitted. As you can see, there will be some putty work to be done. I will save this step for the very last before primer and paint.

So now it's on to the grunt work. I busted out the Dremel and grinded off the bulk of the payload bay door hinges before sanding them clean by hand with an emery board. The Dremel made this step a lot quicker and easier than if I had to cut them all off by hand. I would like to note here for future reference to do this step first before gluing the fuselage halves together, just so the handling is a bit easier.

Here's an image showing one side clean of those pesky door hinges :)/>

Now I have begun puttying and sanding the seams on the belly. I'm using Tamiya white putty on the thin, narrow seams and Squadron Green for the larger gaps and recessed areas since it's thicker. I've masked to save from smudging into unwanted areas and to save from having to do too much overall smoothing of the surface.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Hotdog

[crowe-t]

Hotdog, Nice work on the windows. I can't wait to see them finished.