Jump to content

Monogram 1/72 Space Shuttle Discovery *mark II window assembly*


Recommended Posts

If you can find the astronauts that Jay used for a good price then that will work, otherwise you can modify the astronauts that came with the kit. They may not be 100% but once the cockpit is installed you won't see too much through the small windows. I'm sure it'll look OK when it's all together.

BTW, thanks for posting the picture of the Monogram and Fisher SSME together. They look about the same size. I assume the diameter of the openings are about the same???

After looking at the astronauts that come with the kit, I think I can make them work with some chopping and sanding. I'll need to find a saw attachment for my Dremel. That will be quicker and cheaper than trying to acquire the Airfix guys.

So around and around I go trying to man my shuttle. You guys probably think I'm crazy going to all of this trouble over a couple of figures that will barely be visible! But when you light this thing up I think you'd miss their little orange bodies if they weren't there. Hopefully my mis-steps getting the right figures will be a guide for those who are like-minded and help them avoid going through this themselves.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup, those windows look pretty good! And should you want to take 'em apart, Elmer's glue is water soluble. Just put 'em in water and they fall apart, and the glue will just chip off.

Will you have to, or did you already, remove the 'mullions' between the window panes on the kit? Or do the AMP windows just fit over 'em? ( I think Dutycat will have some competition already!)

And you may want to get a small saw blade instead of a Dremel attachment to saw off the small stuff, like augmenting the kit's astronauts. The blades fit into a #11 Xacto type handle. You'll get 5 of 'em in a pack. I've had one set for about 5 years and I'm still on the first blade. It's quicker and cleaner than a power tool.

For the fire extinguisher, there's an adhesive out there for aluminum foil. Bare Metal Foil Adhesive or Micro Mark, I think. It works lover-ly.

It's interesting to realize how we obsess over small details and ignore others ... the Fisher SSME's do look good, but the vent tubes have no gaps between them and the engine bell. But they do-o-o look good.

And your HUDs ... they look quite large, almost the width of the seats, and wouldn't the glass face the astronauts? I'm assuming they're just dry fit.

It sound like you're havin' a lot of fun with this build ... keep it up!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the others, the windows are amazing and I probably try to get them for my shuttle too. I also like the design of the engines. They are looking very good. I am looking forward to your next update.

Link to post
Share on other sites

These are very nice details you offer, and I'm curious to see how it goes. :coolio:

BTW, it's really a pity that there is no which Fisher engine nozzles and RCS pods in 1:144, :crying2: that's first-class quality. :thumbsup:

:wave:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup, those windows look pretty good! And should you want to take 'em apart, Elmer's glue is water soluble. Just put 'em in water and they fall apart, and the glue will just chip off.

Will you have to, or did you already, remove the 'mullions' between the window panes on the kit? Or do the AMP windows just fit over 'em? ( I think Dutycat will have some competition already!)

And you may want to get a small saw blade instead of a Dremel attachment to saw off the small stuff, like augmenting the kit's astronauts. The blades fit into a #11 Xacto type handle. You'll get 5 of 'em in a pack. I've had one set for about 5 years and I'm still on the first blade. It's quicker and cleaner than a power tool.

For the fire extinguisher, there's an adhesive out there for aluminum foil. Bare Metal Foil Adhesive or Micro Mark, I think. It works lover-ly.

It's interesting to realize how we obsess over small details and ignore others ... the Fisher SSME's do look good, but the vent tubes have no gaps between them and the engine bell. But they do-o-o look good.

And your HUDs ... they look quite large, almost the width of the seats, and wouldn't the glass face the astronauts? I'm assuming they're just dry fit.

It sound like you're havin' a lot of fun with this build ... keep it up!

Pete,

Good to know about the water trick. I may try that if I decide not to go ahead and build up the second set of AMP windows. I'd like to figure out a way to better prevent the glue from seeping into the gaps if I can. Maybe using small dots instead of coating the entire edge, letting it dry, and repeating until I have a good hold may work better?

I did already remove the mullions from the kit windows. I will still need to do some cutting into the fuselage to make the AMP windows fit. The AMP kit directions call for using thick styrene sheet to make a frame for the new windows, and installing that into the fuselage, but I'm wondering why I couldn't just stick them into the modified kit window openings directly? I could just use putty to fill in the gaps. I suppose it's something I could risk trying, since I do have the backup set of AMP windows in case I goof up.

I had noticed the lack of a gap under the vent tubes on the Fisher SSMEs. I thought about taking my Xacto and cutting them out, but it's an expensive set of engines and I just know I'd get heavy-handed at some point and break one. But keep in mind what you see on here are macro shots. It really won't be that noticeable once they're glued on to the finished model.

You are right that the HUD glass should face the astronauts. In real life, the HUD glass is angled (as seen in this pic), but I should wait until I have my astronauts in the seats before I glue them and make sure their line of sight works with what I have built. Good call.

Yes, I am having fun with this one! The real fun comes tonight when I start decaling the cockpit. Stay tuned!

Thank you everyone for your comments so far.

Link to post
Share on other sites

i would try attaching the next set of windows together using Future. I use it for clear parts and pe with great success. i would sandwich your assembly and paint it around the edge and let it dry. If you do get some on the clear parts it won't show like other adhesives.

Edited by Brian 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I don't want to really say anything negative, but....

.....if those windows are resting in the existing Monogram window cut out, then the framing seems like it would be oversized. I tried something similar myself before embarking on the beany cap project. I correct sized the windows, but quickly discovered they would sit too far apart in the existing Monogram window architecture, driving the framing out of scale. That is when I decided the best solution is a complete rebuild of the flight deck window area from scratch. As you all know, the beany cap master turned out well, but the clear resin casting did not. I am now working on a modified approach which addresses window clarity. It requires significant modification of the beany cap master and a new mold, but in the end I think it will give us the results we have been working towards as a community the past couple of years.

Purchase these windows Hotdog is using if you think they are suitable, but in the coming weeks, I am hopeful that I can offer you an nice alternative. What I am working on will not have the multiple window layers, however.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Gil,

That is a good point to bring up, and I don't see it as negative. We're in uncharted waters here with an experimental new solution and it's good to have more than one set of experienced eyeballs looking at this thing and helping to get it right. I'm the guinea pig helping to develop this product so whatever input we can give will lead to positive results. It may very well be that the Monogram window openings may have to be modified further inward on the front to move the AMP window pieces inward towards each other so there's not so much of a gap. And I think the sandwiching of the 4 pieces that make up the window assemblies adds a thickness that makes them appear larger in their "naked" state than they will appear once they're nested flush into the fuselage. It may also be that the inner layers make the windows on the real shuttles appear smaller than if they were taken out and only the exterior windows and frames were visible. I guess we'll find out after they're installed. I love what you're doing with the beanie cap and I plan to order a couple for myself for future builds. If both of these projects work out then shuttle modelers will have two solutions to choose from, both which will improve the look of the stock kit.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Are the layered design window sets only for the monogram kit or can they be used on the revell kit as well?

I haven't built the Revell kit, but I don't see any reason why you couldn't use the windows with it. The process of cutting the fuselage to make the AMP window assemblies fit would be very similar I would think.

I've had good luck with Testors Clear Parts cement

tesr8876.jpg

I have a tube of that but it doesn't seem to bond very well. Then again, I've had it for 10 years or more, so it's probably no longer any good. I will try the Future polish.

Link to post
Share on other sites

i would try attaching the next set of windows together using Future. I use it for clear parts and pe with great success. i would sandwich your assembly and paint it around the edge and let it dry. If you do get some on the clear parts it won't show like other adhesives.

I have never worked with Future before. I thought it was for clear coating finished parts? So it can be used as an adhesive as well?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Woohoo those windows look great! THAT's the look I have always wanted to see on a shuttle model and just haven't seen yet. It shows just how complicated the window structure really is. I really wish he would have come out with these before I sealed up my shuttle. Very nice! And I agree with future, ORRR get you some Gator grip glue. It's really really good stuff for clear parts. dries clear and holds almost as good as superglue. But no matter what glue you choose, I would definately coat the assembled edges with future or something before you try to glue them in to the opening. With it being sandwhiched like that, I could see that unsealed, capillary action could cause whatever glue you put them in the shuttle with to run in between the layers. THAT would suck. Sealing the edge would hopefully prevent that.

Keep it going!

Bill

Edited by niart17
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have never worked with Future before. I thought it was for clear coating finished parts? So it can be used as an adhesive as well?

I wouldn't call it an adhesive, but it will stick parts together that are under no stress, like windows.

Use it right outta the bottle, dip the window in Future or brush it on, touch a corner of the window to a paper towel to drain off the excess Future and put it together and let it dry.

If it dries in the wrong position, dip the subassembly in Windex.

Eeezy peeezy

Link to post
Share on other sites

What's great about Future is it doesn't leave brush lines. When using it to apply decals I brush it on to the areas and after the decals are applied I brush some Future over them. It's great stuff and doesn't yellow.

Edited by crowe-t
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys! Now if only I had known all that about Future before I started the windows! I'll pick up a bottle and maybe some of that Gator grip too this weekend.

Here's another look at the AMP windows, since everyone's so interested in them. I've got them loosely taped to the outside of the window opening that still needs to be expanded so they fit inside.

DSC04450_zps1957440d.jpg

I think once they are mounted in the frame and flush with the fuselage, they will be fine. I'm just wondering if it would be best to install them before I glue the fuselage together or not. It probably doesn't matter but it might be easier to do the sanding and puttying if they are apart.

I've got a busy week, so I don't expect I'll get to do much on this again until the weekend. In the meantime I'll be watching all of the other shuttle builds!

Edited by Hotdog
Link to post
Share on other sites

What an improvement over the kit's windows. They look like shuttle windows to me.

That's for sure!!!

For the windows, it's probably 'six of one and half dozen of the other' as to whether you should assemble 'em now or glue the fuselage together. But there will be a lot of sanding, so masking the windows may work. Maybe not with tape but Liquid mask may work too, as long as you don't leave it on for too long, like a week. .......... Giving it a bit more thought, I would probably glue the fuselage together ... and assemble the windows just before the flight deck goes in. ... just my 2 cents ...

And will the thickness of the window assembly interfere with the flight deck?

I'm gonna hafta get me a set of those windows ...

And are the AMP windows styrene? Are they glued in with styrene cement ... or do you need CA or something else?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Pete! The input really helps. With the thickness of the AMP window assemblies, it would be very smart to do a dry fit of the flight deck right away and make sure it will still fit. At last check, it looked like there would be ample space, but with the HUD's glued on it might not clear. The thickness of the Monogram kit styrene appears to be the same as .060 styrene, and the thickness of the AMP window assemblies has to be at least .070, maybe more (you can see this in the photo above if you look at the opening where the last window on the port side touches the fuselage). So there's going to be a bit of overhang on the interior flight deck area of the kit.

The AMP window pieces are die-cut from very thin styrene sheet, and I only used Elmer's white glue around the edges to assemble them. Since they are already painted I will probably stick with the Elmer's when it comes time to glue them into the fuselage.

Any reason why I would use a liquid mask instead of a tape mask when it comes time to glue, sand and putty this thing in?

Link to post
Share on other sites

...Any reason why I would use a liquid mask instead of a tape mask when it comes time to glue, sand and putty this thing in?

I'll give my opinion on this. I think being that the window assembly is glued with white glue or future or something else that makes for a relatively fragile assembly, if you put tape on it and have to peel that tape off, there's a good chance of pulling the pane assembly apart. I'd probably want to get as much sanding and filling done on the nose and top area as possible before even getting those windows close to the model. Then once it's all nice and smooth I'd glue them and in and very carefully fill and sand after liquid masking them. Any dust gets inside the windows and all that beauty get's...well not so much beauty. Based on the last set of photos you sent, it looks like the plastic can be cut carefully right up to the edges of the windows and make for a precise fit. The less filling in that area the better I'd think. I really really need to get a hold of a set of them things. They sure are purty!

Bill

Link to post
Share on other sites

Very good input Bill. I will ready the fuselage first and save gluing in the windows for last. I'll add the liquid mask to my shopping list for this weekend.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll give my opinion on this. I think being that the window assembly is glued with white glue or future or something else that makes for a relatively fragile assembly, if you put tape on it and have to peel that tape off, there's a good chance of pulling the pane assembly apart. I'd probably want to get as much sanding and filling done on the nose and top area as possible before even getting those windows close to the model. Then once it's all nice and smooth I'd glue them and in and very carefully fill and sand after liquid masking them. Any dust gets inside the windows and all that beauty get's...well not so much beauty. Based on the last set of photos you sent, it looks like the plastic can be cut carefully right up to the edges of the windows and make for a precise fit. The less filling in that area the better I'd think.

Exactly! Plus, liquid mask, Maskol, comes off like rubber cement, just peel it off. However, if it's left on for more than a few hours ... it's not so easy to remove. I think it says so on the bottle ...

And one other thing. Don't think of filler as an adhesive. It isn't. It doesn't bond plastic, it just fills in low spots. Try all these things out on some styrene scraps ...

Hope this helps

Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly! Plus, liquid mask, Maskol, comes off like rubber cement, just peel it off. However, if it's left on for more than a few hours ... it's not so easy to remove. I think it says so on the bottle ...

Yeah I will need more than a few hours for the putty to dry and to do the sanding. So I will avoid Maskol. What about Parma? I see this brand a lot. Would that be better to use? I guess I am looking for a liquid mask that can be left on for a few days. Heading to the store soon!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...