eclipseone Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) Hey guys! Seem to be having issues with every new model I try to make, I ruined a 72 scale f-18 with a bad can of gloss coat, now this 72 scale f-16 is being a pain in the butt with the decals.. I just can't win. Surface is smooth, two Coates of gloss, everything went on really easy then this happens I apply onto microset, then apply MicroSol over it.. I tried making tiny slices in the skin to help it absorb but nothing gives. These are cartograf decals from an academy f-16. The other decals on the plane seem to have gone on easy. This is making me nervous as I have more cartograf decals in much more expensive eduard kits, and after this I'm scared to use them. All these 72 scales are just practice before I start on my nicer 48 scales. Please help brothers ! Edited February 21, 2013 by eclipseone Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Netz Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 You really only need to apply the solvent if needed, but if you still want to apply it at the decal setting stage, just run it along the panel-line rivet details, there is no real reason to have solvent over the smooth area of the fin. And since you will be barraged with 1000 and 1 different techniques, I'll fire off the first one. Try using Future Floor wax (search) diluted with water (actually, water with a bit of Future) in place of the micro set, you will be surprised at the pulling power of Future, then once dry and if needed you can apply a solvent to pull down any stubborn areas that did not sink into the panels/recessed details. Curt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
eclipseone Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 I used my method before on tamiya and revell models and seemed to work okay. Is there a way to remedy this decal ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
eclipseone Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 Also guessing not to use sol if its a flat area? I used my method before on tamiya and revell models and seemed to work okay. Is there a way to remedy this decal ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spejic Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Sometimes solvents make decals wrinkle up, but then they smooth down later by themselves. Don't cover it with any sort of coat and just let it sit a few days and see what happens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mlicari Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 How smooth is your paint job? It looks rough in the picture (but I could be mistaken). That could make a big difference for a large decal with a lot of clear film. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
eclipseone Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) Pretty smooth but I'm sure it could be better. I had issues with model Master paint being dusty but this is tamiya. Any tips to smooth it down more? Still learning the airbrush, maybe I need to add retarder I'm going to leave the decals over night , can it be fixed or does it need to be removed? If so how do i remove it Thanks guys Edited February 21, 2013 by eclipseone Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Neo Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Reaply more Micro sol make sure your decal is in a vertical position it will fix itself worst case if it dosent is : apply another coat of Sol wait for it to be almost dry, very gently use a Q-Tip and press the wrinkles down, reapply Sol this happens to me all the time.. always manage to recover Quote Link to post Share on other sites
eclipseone Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 Tried the q tip thing, didn't work. It's not really wrinkled, more so its spidered. So chock this up as another waste of time I guess.. What can I do to assure this doesn't happen again Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lesthegringo Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 May be this is a little extreme, but if you are going to strip the decals anyway.... get some nail varnish remover, and add water to it, and put it on the decals use it well diluted to start with, but if it doesn't work, a little less diluted next time. BUT, don't rub, touch or try to move the decals when you use this, they will be like liquid and will fall apart at the slightest touch. It has worked for me but it is not the easiest technique Hope you recover what looks like a great model Quote Link to post Share on other sites
eclipseone Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 I'll try that. Should I be micro mesh sanding the model after paint, then applying the gloss coat? Something to help the surface become even smoother ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RichardL Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Pretty smooth but I'm sure it could be better. I had issues with model Master paint being dusty but this is tamiya. Any tips to smooth it down more? Still learning the airbrush, maybe I need to add retarder Looks like you didn't use enough thinner when airbrushing Tamiya. Unlike Model Master, Tamiya acrylics need 50% thinner, sometimes slightly more, and they spray beautifully and smoothly when mixed with Tamiya thinner. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FAR148 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 What did you use for your gloss coat? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Beary Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Two thoughts 1 Did you squeegee the water out from under the decal? I use a soft brush and move from the center to the edges. You may have trapped water under the decal. 2 Try using a hair dryer on "low" to see what happens. Then re wet the decal with the solution and try the dryer again. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
eclipseone Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 Okay that's good tip for the thinner. Ill try it next time! I applied micro set and let the decal sit on it, I didn't run the solution out from under it. Then applied the solvent over top. I used Testors spray can for the gloss coat. Is nail polish remover the best for removing the decal ? Thanks guys Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crazy Snap Captain Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 One very extreme method is using Tamiya Extra Thin Cement. Some guy tried it here on the forum and it worked ok, but it's high risk. But if you're stripping them anyway...give it a crack. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FAR148 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I used Testors spray can for the gloss coat. It sounds like your gloss coat was not fully cured before you started decaling and it was still gassing off when you applied your decals, causing them to wrinkle. What can I do to assure this doesn't happen again Try and stay away from rattle can gloss and flat coats. They contain strong and powerful solvents and if not not given enough time to fully cure it will react to anything put on top of it like decals, dry tranfers and even other clear coats. If you continue to use rattle can gloss and or flat coats, make sure you let them dry for a few days before applying decals. I could be wrong but, it just looks like thats what happening to your decal. Next kit, try a water based gloss like Future. Tons of modelers use it and with great success. Best of luck and don't let this get you down, Steven L Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bob Beary Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 To remove the decal I'd first try a piece of masking tape. Burnish it down over the decal and rip it off. I'd stay away from acetone and the like. Flood it with Micro Sol and use a brush or Q tip and rub it around. Might take a while. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RichardL Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Is nail polish remover the best for removing the decal ? I used a piece of Scotch magic tape in the past on dry decals, and it lifted off the decals entirely without lifting the paint. Tamiya masking tape might also work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
eclipseone Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 Got me on the "not waiting for gloss to cure" guilty for sure. Maybe waited 5 hours. What is suggested as a spray for gloss? The reason I use Testors is I like to oil wash , and to clean the oil I use white spirit which will destroy paint and gloss coats if not careful . How does future hold up against mineral spirits Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RichardL Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I would apply the gloss coat with an airbrush. Any acrylic top coat will hold up fine against mineral spirits. You can also airbrush Testors lacquer gloss coat, the one in a square bottle with purple label. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FAR148 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 You can still use the rattle can, just wait a few days and let it fully cure and dry before you decal. Not sure how Future holds up against mineral spirits. Someone here should knows. I use Future and a water base wash and never had any problems with it attacking the future. Don't stop modeling, Steven L Quote Link to post Share on other sites
eclipseone Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 What's the better gloss coat to use? I have some vallejo and some liquitex. I also ordered some of that promodeller wash which may allow me to get away from the mineral spirits and oil paint. What is the mix ratio for spraying future as a gloss coat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FAR148 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) What is the mix ratio for spraying future as a gloss coat I think it's a matter of personal prefer. What works well for others may not work well for you. I have found what works well for me is to add a few drops of windex to Future. Here's two pics of my USMC Hawker Hunter and you can see my result with Future as a gloss coat. For me the trick is to shoot it wet. But not so wet that it runs. But if I get a run, no problem. I'll let it dry overnight, and wet sand(400-600 grit) it out then reshoot it. If you decide to use Future as your gloss coat, test it on something first. Get a feel for how to shoot it and get a level of glossiest your happy with before you go shooting a finished model. And let it dry overnight before doing anything to it. Hope that helps, Steven L Edited February 22, 2013 by FAR148 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
eclipseone Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) Holy that looks insane!! I think I prefer that for sure! What kind of paint do you use? It looks so smooth. What pressure should I be blasting my paint at Also thanks a lot for all the help guys! Edited February 22, 2013 by eclipseone Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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