niart17 Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 Now Bill, don't go building us up just to let us down ... :whistle:/> Before you try to build up a tiny, itsy bitsy 1/72 Rover, do some ciphering. There are a lot of very fine details, at that scale, which may be out of the scope of 3D printing. Steering mechanisms, "lawn chair webbing" on the seats, and a bunch of rods and supports ... may not be feasible in 3D. But I do agree that a bigger scale one, say 1/48 ( as it would accompany the 1/48 LM's out there ) or larger, would be a far better choice, from a sales standpoint. Having said all that ... keep us posted on your 3D rover! :yahoo:/> Whoa whoa whoa there partner! I said I'd "TRY" to model the wheels because I was going to try to build a larger scale one...only the WHEELS are what I'd try to 3D print. What fun would it be to just have a printed full model? Might as well buy a toy. Yeah, I think it may be too small a scale for this, but I'm going to see what's what, you neve know. An idea I had for larger scale was to maybe make a hard master (metal, wood ?) for the mesh tire section (two actually for inner and outer) and see if one could hammer some fine mesh around it and have it hold it's shape. Then with photoetch, you could have the inner frame and outer treads with a resin (or printed) wheel hub. It would be a lot of work but for a large scale model it may be worth it. Just thinking out loud. And sstop trying to get me roped in to something there Pete, whatsdamattayou? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
K2Pete Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 But what's to say you couldn't have an unfolded one on display next to the Saturn V? :woot.gif:/> I'll probably model one anyway cause I really want to try one in a larger scale one day, like 1/24 or so. ... oh sor-r-ry-y-y ... I thought you meant an unfolded LRV ... I guess you meant an unfolded whee-e-e-el! Man, I was already looking forward to having a 1/48 kit of an LRV ... dammit dammit dammit! Alright, I guess I'll just hafta fug-ged-a-bowt-it Sorry about taking over your thread j-love ... it won't happen again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 ... oh sor-r-ry-y-y ... I thought you meant an unfolded LRV ... I guess you meant an unfolded whee-e-e-el! :doh:/> Man, I was already looking forward to having a 1/48 kit of an LRV ... dammit dammit dammit! :bandhead2:/> Alright, I guess I'll just hafta fug-ged-a-bowt-it Sorry about taking over your thread j-love ... it won't happen again. :worship:/> No, I meant if J-love wanted to show an unfolded LRV next to his model since you can't see the wheels on the folded one, then I'd try the wheels for that..."what we have herya, is a failua to communicate" Carry on J, sorry bout that. Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Youngtiger1 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Wow, just saw this WIP and man o man...i totally agree with you and other that...yep, you're crazy.... :woot.gif:/> but don't worry, we like this type of crazy. Bigger is better with us!! ;)/> Btw, how talk this thing be ones completed? Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
j-love Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 Not a problem guys ... heck I'd like to see a 1/48 scale LRV some day too. Hi Mike, hmph ... you know until now, I really didn't even think about the overall length. Haa haa ... looking things over, it's going to be 4.909' tall at 1/72. I was really wanting to do a 1/48 scale but I wouldn't have had any where to display it. 1/72 will fit nicely next to the book cases ... and then I can start filling out the other launch vehicles at 1/72, when I'm done with this thing, in ten years time. :blink: The more I read about the photo-etching process, the more confident I'm getting with some of the detail I think I can achieve. The whole idea of keeping stringers straight, while gluing them in, seems daunting to me. So Im thinking of wrapping the tubes with a PE sheet with surface details and slight depressions where the stringers will go. I whipped this up in about ten minutes ... I'm hoping it's not too difficult to incorporate. Maybe, just maybe ... I might be getting a little ahead of myself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 That's actually a great idea! Your drawings look great and should yield great looking parts. Getting the stringers perfectly straight would be a pain and being such a tight pattern if they are >< that much off, it will show up. Just curious, is making your own photoetch a really expensive proposal or is it one of those things where once you get the basic equipment, it starts paying for itself? I've recently seen some "homemade" etch parts and was really amazed at the detail that can be done now. Keep up the great work, only 9 years and 11 months to go! Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
j-love Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 Well, one thing I just found out. Rivets at this scale are rather pointless ... on the stringers, you can hardly see them. <_< As you can see, there's a bit of a learning curve here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
j-love Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 Thanks Bill! I'm a illustrator by trade ... so that stuff comes easy for me. Being as ham-fisted as I am, it's the best way for me to add detail. The photo etching, I'm gathering parts to make a vertical etching tank. From what I understand, that method yields the best results. It consists of a thin, vertical tank with an aquarium bubbler and heater. Prepping the brass with the photo-resist is pretty simple these days too. It's on a film and you transfer it with a laminator. You then print your art on a some clear film ... attach it to the brass ... expose it to some UV light ... drop it in some developer ... then into the tank with some ferric chloride ... and presto, parts. I'm oversimplifying the process, but it's actually not too hard or expensive. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Youngtiger1 Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 I was going to ask the same question about making you own PE but our brother Bill beat me to it :D/> So, brother j-love not to put you on the spot, but maybe someday you can do us a little tutorial on "how to make PE" with your vertical fish tank. It will be a great stuff for all of us that are interested but don't have a clue. I bet by know your going.... :doh:/> me and my big mouth... :lol:/> Quote Link to post Share on other sites
feddawg Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I would be interested in the wheels as well as the photo etched bottom plate myself. The LRV in the Dragon kit leaves a lot to be desired. If Dragon ever gets around to releasing the Saturn V as a kit I hope to see several things made available by way of 3D printing to enhance the kit. I have one of the pre-builts but am inclined to leave it as is, I understand that Dragon will release a third run sometime in the middle of the year and am considering purchasing another with the idea of disassembly to re-build it more accurately. Either way it looks like 3D printing with enthusiasts behind it will be the best avenue for obtaining an accurate Saturn V stack. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
j-love Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 (edited) A little progress ... I'm almost done with the art for the S-IVB stringer wraps. The aft skirt was a little more of a challenge than the forward skirt ... there are a lot of stringer spacing differences to sort through. Here's the art taped to the plastruct tube to give a general idea of what it will look like. I also found some detail about the propulsive vents, on the forward skirt, and was able to sketch this. Edited March 7, 2013 by j-love Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I also found some detail about the propulsive vents, on the forward skirt, and was able to sketch this. I don't recall seeing these in any of my photos - where exactly are they located? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
j-love Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 (edited) I hadn't seen them before either ... but I came across a them while looking at some "on pad" shots. Circled in red here. Here's the best pict I could find. (It's on the right edge.) Diagram showing the vents. (The larger vents are the non-propulsive, and the smaller are the propulsive.) Edited March 7, 2013 by j-love Quote Link to post Share on other sites
j-love Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 Dragon is finally releasing the kit. See Here. Looks like they did a little re-tooling to the SII thrust structure ... but it still seems a little rough around the edges. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Any word on estimated cost? Gotta be pretty expensive! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
j-love Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 Any word on estimated cost? Gotta be pretty expensive! Looks like $139.99 ... not too bad. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I got burned buying the initial release and all its inaccuracies. From the CAD images on the dragon site I see eight ullage rockets on the SI/SII interstage and the same mis-shapen engine fairings at the base of the S-IC. Pass. I'll spend less than that correcting and repainting the one I have. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
j-love Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 I've never really seen one in person, but I have read about all the inaccuracies. Kind of a shame to go through all that work and miss a few basic things like faring length, etc. ... it could have been so much better. All that said, It is cool to have a model of this subject, at that scale, available for purchase. It's still pretty impressive. Anyway, I'm going to continue on in my own direction ... come what may. ;) Speaking of ... here's some more boring research stuff I've been working on. Here's a portion of the SM surface map showing the SIM bay. Still need to workout the panel labels. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
j-love Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) Oh, btw ... if anyone is interested. Here's a LINK to my Apollo CSM research drawings that I started years ago. (If you're a member of the Yahoo Space Modelers Group, you may have already seen these.) Could be useful to some of you guys. Edited March 13, 2013 by j-love Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 $139 is not that bad at all. Even if there are some errors, it surely would be a good starting point for some accurizing. I may have to consider that one day. And of course if I ever do I'll be looking you up for some of these phototetch parts. Very impressive work. Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
j-love Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 Got this yesterday evening. This is the second detail set I've purchased from New Ware, the first being the 1/96 Saturn V detail set, and much like that one the quality is pretty amazing. The resin casts are perfect ... no bubbles with flawless surfaces. The photo etch is really spiffy too. Resin bits Nozzles Nozzles, end view. Photo etch ... ... more, photo etch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) Wow, nice! Talk about some nice looking resin. I wonder how they can get such thin thin edges on those nozzles. I was under the impression that was next to impossible with resin nozzles. I guess it's not. I really want to see this thing as you work on it. It's gonna be great. Bill Oh yeah, does that mean you're not going to make your own photo etch panels for the SM? That panel was looking really good. Edited March 15, 2013 by niart17 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
j-love Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 I mainly bought the kit for the LM parts an the nozzles ... so I'm still considering creating my own SM details. I do have two unbuilt Dragon CSMs, so I'll most likely build one with my details and the other with the New Ware. (Two, better than one.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
j-love Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 Very little actual progress this week. Been researching the S-II stage and how the heck I'm going to make the J-2s. Currently my thoughts are making a J-2 master and then casting the 6 that will be needed. (Hopefully that won't be too terribly daunting.) Luckily the SPS nozzle and the J-2 nozzles are relatively similar in size ... the J-2 seem a little smaller, but the general shape is close. So I'm planning to reshape the bell and shorten it with my "poor-man's" lathe, (i.e. the nozzle chucked into my hand drill.) Adding a trust chamber/injector/gimbal ... then have sub-assemblies for the turbo-pumps, start tanks and flight instrumentation packages. Simple, right? Started sanding off all the Dragon SPS bell surface details and the interior ridges. This method actually works better than one might think. Also been working on the LEM ... I've decided against using Dragon's folded leg parts. They just don't look right ... also, the legs seem way too short. (Does anyone know of, or have relatively accurate leg dimensions?) I'm going to take the "deployed" truss parts and fold them. Basically just cutting them in two, and assembling 'em folded. That way adding the blankets and pyromark will be simple. Here's the d-stage. I had to modify the Airfix parts so the truss parts will lay flat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
K2Pete Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 (Does anyone know of, or have relatively accurate leg dimensions?) I'm going to take the "deployed" truss parts and fold them. Basically just cutting them in two, and assembling 'em folded. That way adding the blankets and pyromark will be simple. On my Airfix 1/72 LM the Primary struts, not including the footpads, are 1 9/16" long. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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