1:72 CP-107 Argus Kit

[CorsairMan]

It does, thank you. I think, to sum up, it looks like this: lots of people hopefully give you money, you develop a kit, many (possibly most) of those people then have to buy the kit off you as well, and if there's any profit you keep it.

I doubt there would be a profit in something this esoteric. The 'donation' idea simply serves to prevent losses by spreading the costs over a (hopefully) large base. I guess some unanswered questions are - "Who will design the tooling", "Who will own the tooling", "Where will the tooling be phycially located?", "Who will produce kits from the tooling"

If at the end of the day some contract manufacturer owns the tooling to produce the kits, then essentially these donations are a form of 'gift' for that manufacturer (it doesn't need to invest its own money in the molds).

AM used contract manufacturers (as did Tamiya at one time) except AM financed the molds with debt and they owned the molds that they paid for.

[RiderFan]

It does, thank you. I think, to sum up, it looks like this: lots of people hopefully give you money, you develop a kit, many (possibly most) of those people then have to buy the kit off you as well, and if there's any profit you keep it. Meanwhile my kit could cost me up to $200. It all seems a bit one-way.

I can see how this works for, I don't know, helping someone estabish a career in the arts. But I'm not seeing much of an attraction in the world of modelling. The difference is that, with the arts, I'm not expecting the result to be a discreet item that can be sold commercially. Sorry, but I don't want an Argus enough to pay that sort of money, and the warm feeling from knowing it's on the market won't impress the bank manager.

I do wish you luck, though.

That's fine. Crowd Fundings biggest successes are in the video game industry. Where for-profit companies use this to fund the development of games. Some of those games are free. As I said above, I've seen people donate $2000 to assist in the development of a game that they could play for free. Clearly, they don't see it as one-way. And while I'm obviously not at my goal, there are others that think it's a good idea and have made donations. At least one worth giving a shot to.

Edited March 19, 2013 by RiderFan

[RiderFan]

I am curious as to how much door knocking you have done yourself (aside from a post on the ARC)? What portion of the cost are you contributing?

I'm not going to get into specifics, but I have already set aside a significant amount of money for this project(or at least a kit of some form) and have already spent more than those donations would cover. Right now, I'm the only one on the hook for anything.

Where I think the idea of an injection molded 1/72 Argus is great, if you are hoping that this crowd funding thing will carry you to the goal line or even remotely close, you will be sadly mistaken. Why not see if you can sell this idea fully to Mr. Kinetic and get him to foot the lions share, giving him the rights most of the profits? You could take a percentage for doing the research and contribute what you can financially. Take that money and build on it until you get yourself into the position to fund a project 100% yourself (like that 1/72 CF-100 idea that was bounced around...).

This crowd funding thing was bounced around several years ago by a now defunct company called Pro Scale. They wanted to produce a 1/72 RCAF Buffalo (IMS) and they did not suceed. They even remarketed a couple of Heller kits under their label, you will see them from time to time on eBay and elsewhere - 2 different offerings of a boxed sets of 3 Heller T-33s, 2 Canadian and 1 US markings and also the 707 with Canadian markings.

Again, a great idea, just never flew... which was too bad.

Your work is cut out for you, just invest in a good pair of shoes for all the walking and door knocking that is to come if this is to really happen. Good luck to you.

I speak to Raymond at Kinetic often. I've done work for him. He's not interested in something purely Canadian.

Edited March 19, 2013 by RiderFan

[Big Kohona]

I'm not going to get into specifics, but I have already set aside a significant amount of money for this project(or at least a kit of some form) and have already spent more than those donations would cover. Right now, I'm the only one on the hook for anything.

I speak to Raymond at Kinetic often. I've done work for him. He's not interested in something purely Canadian.

Just curious as to why you felt the need to alter (bold) a portion of my previous post (question) when you quoted me? Seems like you are trying to take my comment out of context and suggest something.

...Right now, I'm the only one on the hook for anything.

Oh, I guess I misread as is appeared that a number of people did donate (lend???) money towards this project. My bad.

I speak to Raymond at Kinetic often. I've done work for him. He's not interested in something purely Canadian.

Too bad. Hey, you should remind him that the CF-100 was also used by Belgium and that the Tutor was used elsewhere as well. What's the chance of getting him to scale down his Tracker or F-5 kit? Since you have an in with him, do some arm twisting!

Anyways, as I've said already, good luck with this or what ever you end up doing, I truly do hope you succeed.

[RiderFan]

Just curious as to why you felt the need to alter (bold) a portion of my previous post (question) when you quoted me? Seems like you are trying to take my comment out of context and suggest something.

Because that was the specific question I was answering.

Oh, I guess I misread as is appeared that a number of people did donate (lend???) money towards this project. My bad.

A few people have made donations. But as I've explained, they get that back if the goal isn't reached. So as of right now, I'm the only one that has spent money that I can't get back if this doesn't work out as hoped.

Too bad. Hey, you should remind him that the CF-100 was also used by Belgium and that the Tutor was used elsewhere as well. What's the chance of getting him to scale down his Tracker or F-5 kit? Since you have an in with him, do some arm twisting!

You're right of course. Other countries did use those aircraft. I'll let Raymond speak for himself as to what kits he has coming down the pipe. I'm only familiar with a couple of them anyway and I am not sure what ones he's announced and hasn't. "In" might be too strong a way to put it anyway. I've done some artwork for him,and in the process, exchanged emails. I've asked him about the possibilities of some kit subjects and he didn't seem interested. But it's not like I can call him up and get him to do a kit.

thanks

David

Edited March 20, 2013 by RiderFan

[Quailane]

I am the first person to snap up kits of esoteric aircraft and applaud those who manufacture them. Thirty-three were built, nobody has heard of them, they went out of service a long time ago, they never fought in any war, their color scheme is relatively boring, and they only served in the Canadian military. For sure this kit could be done in resin and break even after a year of sales, but an injection kit, although it would get a lot more of these kits out in the hands of modelers, is a gamble, and might not recoup its costs for years, if it ever does.

But the main problem I see with this project is how you are handling it, and with this I see two big issues. You are not very forthcoming with any information. Basically all you say is that you want to make the kit in injection-molded plastic, and that you want people to give you $100,000 to make it. The only real information you give anyone is that the molds might cost up to $40,000. That is it. You want people to hand you lots of money, but you keep them in the dark about everything. I can understand when maybe there is some trade secret you don't want to give away, but in this case you have nothing to fear and everything to gain by going into detail about everything. What costs so much? Why should I trust you? Who are you working with? Did you go to the Chinese, or did you go to the Czechs? What is your business plan? What are you even planning on making a kit of? On the website you don't even say it is the CP-107 you plan on making or what scale it will be! I want to see some aircraft profiles and a preliminary decal sheet, I want to know what in the world a CP-107 is and why anybody should care. People aren't donating to your personal charity. Whether you personally give them anything in return for their money or not, they are still investing in your business venture.

Equally as important is that people don't really get anything in return. Even if I have moderate interest in the subject, would I really pay $200 for a kit? Or donate $100 and then buy a kit on top of that? Unless somebody is just super into a 1:72 scale kit of the Argus, there is no incentive for anyone to just give you money. Maybe for a small amount, you get a discount from the items on your website and they get put on a mailing list to see regular updates on the kit. Maybe for a bit more, they can also get a free set of Canadian roundels in various scales. Or if someone donates $70, they will get one of the kits. Then at $120 they will get their kits shipped first and numbered 1-100 and autographed by you. For some more money also include some pictures and a little booklet of the plane. For a certain amount, people get their names printed in the instruction booklet as a partner. For even more money, a few people could receive test shots of the kit and give you feedback. Some of these might be great ideas to get people to be interested in the project and want to help and help themselves to some goodies. I don't think people are going to fork over much money solely help your business and "raise awareness of Canadian achievements in Aviation and Naval technologies to hobbyists all over the world." Especially not since then they need to wait a year and then buy the kit like everyone else who didn't help you at all.

I am rooting for you, I really am, but this project is going nowhere as it is, whether it injection molded or resin. When I saw this thread title and your first post, it piqued my interest even though I didn't know what a CP-107 is. But then I read through the thread and looked on the page where you solicit funding, and it really turns me off from chipping in either a small or large amount. I'm just looking at this from my point of view and trying to use my common sense along with what I have seen happen with other big projects that went well or went badly. I'm really trying to help. I am 100% for different subjects to be available to modelers. If you are 100% serious about this project and committed to it, and at this point I'm not really sure you are, you will have to do a lot more than just cry for help and hope shining white knights from ARC deposit enough money in your bank account.

[Dutch]

David,

 

Just curious where you stand on your 1/72 Canadair CP-107 Argus injection molded kit project?  Neil Gaunt, of Transport Wings (UK), has announced a 1/72 CP-107 Argus conversion for the recently released Mach 2 1/72 Bristol Britannia kit.  Neil, however, does not provide decals for the conversion at present, though he promises to do so separately at some point in the future.  If your kit project is dead, could you at least do the decals to fit the Transport Wings conversion?  They would be an instant hit!

 

R/

Dutch

Edited January 13, 2020 by Dutch

[Rick McPherson]

Mach 2 has a 1/72 Britania kit out right now.  There is also coversion kits for a CP-107 Argus, CC-106 Yukon and 3 different CL-44's. The conversion kits are to be released soon. They also come with Canadian decals..

 

[RCAFFAN]

7 hours ago, Rick McPherson said:

 They also come with Canadian decals..

 

Dutch already pointed out that the maker has stated elsewhere on this forum that they do not include decals. This was a response directly from the manufacturer who should know.....He did talk of future decals through one of his other lines as a possibility but not at this time....

Edited November 1, 2018 by RCAFFAN

[Dutch]

Bump.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Dutch