F/A-18 E/F speed brake

[Octan]

Many thanks for your help, but it might have been pictures because I do not know how the lift mechanism and the bay.

[B2Blain]

The majority of the time on the beach, the TEFs are in auto when they land. Normal procedure when the bird gets to the line, is to shut down one engine, flaps to full to check switching valve operation, then shut down the other eninge. In some cases, such as the jets going through the fuel pits before coming to the line, the wings are folded for safety reasons, so when the bird gets back to the line, and the TEFs are set to full, the ailerons stay streamlined. If the wings are folded once the TEF are in full, the ailerons will stay dropped. Now there are times, that if the TEFs are full and the bird has to go in the barn, or in the paint hangar, we will turn the jet to streamline it, then fold the wings. Flight control surfaces dont drop on supers like they do on Babies with lack of Hyd pressure, so the TEFs will stay up on thier own for a long time. With Babies, on the boat, if the aileron locking pin doesnt engage, the ailerons can move, so yes, we do puch them to get them back to streamline, or if the wings are spread and we have to fold the wings electrically, we push the ailerons up prior to folding to they dont damage the TEFs. On Supers you can fold away, the ailerons won't hit the TEFs.

Billy

Thanks, Billy. Very good stuff. It seems more times than not the ailerons are streamline when folded. When they are in that pos are the outboard LEF also in streamline? In some pics it appears that they are deflected a few degrees.

[GreyGhost]

<....>

On aircraft like the A-4, F-4, F-14, F-111 etc.: yes, the spoilers *generally* only come out to play during landing.

<....>

On the F-4 and F-14, the wing spoilers also provide roll control ...

I'm not sure but they may have worked the same way on F-111 also ...

-Gregg

[Neeko]

I have pictures of the spoilers up... Just not at my computer right at the moment. We would pop the LEX spoilers up when prepping the jets for a wash, so yes it is entirely possible to see unmanned Supers on the line at Oceana or Lemoore with the spoilers up. That being said, possible/plausible does not necessarily equal "often". Additionally, jets in these circumstances are not armed to the gills.

The other time you would see the spoilers popped up on deck is when the jet is turned up an the pilot/maintenance crew is doing their flight control checks prior to rolling off to the runway. This is just a momentary thing, so the spoilers don't stay up for very long.

I'll post pictures later when I am back at my laptop...

HTH

Edited March 12, 2013 by Nick Kessel

[rightwinger26]

Thanks, Billy. Very good stuff. It seems more times than not the ailerons are streamline when folded. When they are in that pos are the outboard LEF also in streamline? In some pics it appears that they are deflected a few degrees.

No problem. When the flaps are in auto, the LEFs and the ailerons are streamlined, the only time that is different is spin recovery, but you won't be folding wings in SR. I think what you are seeing in the pictures is an illusion because the bottom of the LEFs are flatter than the top.

I have pictures of the spoilers up... Just not at my computer right at the moment. We would pop the LEX spoilers up when prepping the jets for a wash

HTH

Supers don't open them for wash jobs anymore, at least not that I've seen, there may be a random squadron here and there that does. Babies still pop the speed brake

Edited March 12, 2013 by rightwinger26

[FAR148]

I've photographed the Super Hornet countless times and only remember one time seeing the LEX spoilers up. Was NAS Oceana 2005, last year of the Tomcat demo. My best friend and I drove down from Michigan and made it to VA Beach earlier than we hoped. We parked off of Oceana Blvd to watch the Friday show. Tired from driving all day, we still broke out the gear and started shooting. Had very limited shooting area and the light was crap. The final pass of the Super Hornet demo is a high speed photo pass and if you have ever been spotting off Oceana Blvd you know it's very hard to track a low flying as well as fast aircraft there due to the trees and house around the parking lot. He comes over the trees line screaming, had little time to get him in my sights before he fills the frame. I press the shutter down and the camera is clicking away @ 5 frame a seconds..... The sound of those twin afterburning turbofan at very low altitude is incredible.

Steven L

[rightwinger26]

God, the airs how jets were such a pain in the a**! They are kept configured slick, so all they did was airshows and demo practice, totally useless for every other mission we had to fly, glad you enjoyed the show though:)

Edited March 12, 2013 by rightwinger26

[Neeko]

Supers don't open them for wash jobs anymore, at least not that I've seen, there may be a random squadron here and there that does. Babies still pop the speed brake

So they changed the MRCs? Last time I was stationed at NASO was 2009, so perhaps they took it off the wash job requirements since then... It was a pain in the butt to pop the spoilers with just the APU or the Jenny anyway.

Nevertheless, we did it once upon a time... I totally forgot about the 4-down checks till you mentioned it. Gives me flashbacks to my FDC days...

[rightwinger26]

So they changed the MRCs? Last time I was stationed at NASO was 2009, so perhaps they took it off the wash job requirements since then... It was a pain in the butt to pop the spoilers with just the APU or the Jenny anyway.

Nevertheless, we did it once upon a time... I totally forgot about the 4-down checks till you mentioned it. Gives me flashbacks to my FDC days...

Nobody that uses our wash rack pops them, that would be us, 213, 211, 143, 11, and sometimes 32, and I know 106 doesn't either. I'm the FDC now, so I'm not really in IETMS looking at 14 days that often.

[Neeko]

Nobody that uses our wash rack pops them, that would be us, 213, 211, 143, 11, and sometimes 32, and I know 106 doesn't either. I'm the FDC now, so I'm not really in IETMS looking at 14 days that often.

Depends on how much if a stickler for the rules the maintenance leadership is. When we stood up -213 as Supers, the leadership mentality there was very much "by the book" so that meant popping those stupid things up every time a wash job came up. Not my idea of fun on a cold January night, but that's the way the bosses wanted it...

All good though- I could share all kinds of stories over a beer at the Club next time I'm in town... I sure miss that place.

[rightwinger26]

Common sense comes into play a lot running maintenance too, it has to be done by the book, but sometimes the book works a little backwards, like changing the hardest parts first! Hope to see you at the Club, we're there every Friday after work for Felix Fireball Fridays, last week the wife had to come get me. Kelly keeps extra bottles of Fireball for us.

[ALF18]

I've photographed the Super Hornet countless times and only remember one time seeing the LEX spoilers up. Was NAS Oceana 2005, last year of the Tomcat demo. My best friend and I drove down from Michigan and made it to VA Beach earlier than we hoped. We parked off of Oceana Blvd to watch the Friday show. Tired from driving all day, we still broke out the gear and started shooting. Had very limited shooting area and the light was crap. The final pass of the Super Hornet demo is a high speed photo pass and if you have ever been spotting off Oceana Blvd you know it's very hard to track a low flying as well as fast aircraft there due to the trees and house around the parking lot. He comes over the trees line screaming, had little time to get him in my sights before he fills the frame. I press the shutter down and the camera is clicking away @ 5 frame a seconds..... The sound of those twin afterburning turbofan at very low altitude is incredible.

Steven L :wave:/>

That is one incredible shot! I don't have the time nor the skill or the patience to get such a great action shot.

ALF

[Neeko]

What I found in a hurry tonight:

LEX Spoilers open on "4 Down Checks" during preflight...

Open while in the break...

Open on the wash rack...

[Andre]

On the EMB-145, we have a pair of spoiler panels on each wing, and yes, their literal action is to dump lift from that portion of the wing they sit at.

Light / civil aircraft, like the EMB-145, fall outside my sphere of interest.

So Andre, as you can see, those spoilers may have one name, but many purposes. Speedbrakes being one of them.

The rudders on the Super Hornet also perform the speed brake function.

But I wouldn't correct anyone who calls them "rudders" by calling them rude and stating that "no, they are speedbrakes!".

The main reason I quickly pointed out that the SH does not have a conventional speedbrake is that a modeling buddy of mine just spent a lot of time and effort detailing the Legacy Hornet style speedbrake on his Italeri Super Hornet, which, of course, does not exisat on production examples in real life.

Cheers,

Andre

[GreyGhost]

The ailerons and trailing edge flaps also perform as speed brakes on the SHornet as well ...

-Gregg

[maveric043]

And there are photos what is under a guard?

Andrey

http://postimage.org/image/9wo8ivkxb/

[Neeko]

And there are photos what is under a guard?

Andrey

http://postimage.org/image/9wo8ivkxb/

Under the spoiler is literally an empty cavity... An empty white-painted box. What is circled in the photo is the actuator that drives the spoilers up and down.

[maveric043]

Thanks, but would be desirable to see the photo, and a drive of lifting and lowering. Very much. Very much. Please!!!! Andrey.

[Rank11]

...I quickly pointed out that the SH does not have a conventional speedbrake is that a modeling buddy of mine just spent a lot of time and effort detailing the Legacy Hornet style speedbrake on his Italeri Super Hornet, which, of course, does not exisat on production examples in real life.

Cheers,

Andre

That is not what you said. You said the superhornet does not have speed brakes. Understand that saying that a SH does not have 'a conventional speedbrake' and 'speed brakes' mean entirely differently things in english.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Rank11

[rightwinger26]

Under the spoiler is literally an empty cavity... An empty white-painted box. What is circled in the photo is the actuator that drives the spoilers up and down.

And what a pain in the a** to get those actuator serial numbers! There are some parts its like they built the jet around, sometimes they are not ver Super. I miss Charlies.

[mrvark]

On the F-4 and F-14, the wing spoilers also provide roll control ...

I'm not sure but they may have worked the same way on F-111 also ...

-Gregg

They did. Pilots rarely swept wings past 44 deg to ensure the spoilers didn't lock out (which officially happened at 45 deg). Had a friend who rolled in on a bombing pass with the spoilers locked out and roll authority was so poor that by the time he got rolled upright and pulled only missed the ground by 4 ft according to the range controller.

One of the last steps in the pre takeoff check list and one of the first on the post landing checklist was to turn on (and off) the ground roll spoiler switch, which deployed the spoilers with weight on wheels and engines in idle.

Edited March 13, 2013 by mrvark

[GeneK]

On 3/12/2013 at 4:34 PM, GreyGhost said:

On the F-4 ..., the wing spoilers also provide roll control ... .

On the F-4, the only function of the spoilers is to "take the place" of ailerons on the wing being turned into. Reason is that the aileron extending up would create significant drag, thus adverse yawing the aircraft away from the intended turn. For that reason, the aileron up travel is very small. For example, for a left turn: left spoiler up, right aileron down, rudder to the left (depending on airspeed and Aileron/Rudder Interconnect switch).

 

There is no separate control to deploy spoilers on the F-4.

 

Gene K

 

[Joe Hegedus]

2 hours ago, GeneK said:

On the F-4, the only function of the spoilers is to "take the place" of ailerons on the wing being turned into. Reason is that the aileron extending up would create significant drag, thus adverse yawing the aircraft away from the intended turn. For that reason, the aileron up travel is very small. For example, for a left turn: left spoiler up, right aileron down, rudder to the left (depending on airspeed and Aileron/Rudder Interconnect switch).

 

There is no separate control to deploy spoilers on the F-4.

 

Gene K

 

 Adverse Yaw is the tendency for the aircraft to want to yaw away from the intended direction of turn, caused by increased lift (and therefore increased induced drag) on the "high" wing.  A left roll into a left turn will increase the lift on the right wing (increasing the induced drag on that wing) and reduce the lift on the left wing (decreasing the induced drag there),  resulting in a yawing moment to the right.  

 

So yes, the spoiler will counter adverse yaw, but not because of reducing the drag caused by the "up" aileron, but by reducing the lift and also increasing the drag on the "low" wing (and also by reducing the required deflection of the top wing aileron and thereby reducing the additional induced drag there).

Edited February 19, 2022 by Joe Hegedus

[GeneK]

Deleted

 

Gene K

Edited February 20, 2022 by GeneK
Too far off topic

[hemspilot]

On 3/12/2013 at 1:17 PM, Andre said:

As mentioned by others, the Super Hornet is one of the few aircraft without speedbrakes per se.

On aircraft like the A-4, F-4, F-14, F-111 etc.: yes, the spoilers *generally* only come out to play during landing.

On the SH, the rudders act as speed brakes as well by deflecting them both inward. This is also not generally done by other twintailed aircraft.

HTH,

Andre

The A-4, F-4, F-14 and F-111 all have separate spoilers and airbrakes.

However, like in most high performance aircraft, the spoilers can be used asymmetrically to assist in turns.

Also, the A-4's flaps had the peculiarity of being split, having the secondary function of dive brakes as in older design from Ed Heinemann (Dauntless comes to memory).