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F-15C Ser No 85-114


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I am making a model of the title aircraft using the Hasegawa kit and all was going fine until it came to the decalling. After applying the bigger decals I started looking at the stencelling. I saw that the kit decal sheet included a lot of coloured stencils, which from photos that I have in books show that this is not so (mainly black), but I was still unsure. Then last night looking through a book that I don't use that often I fouund a picture of the actual aircraft, but it is now raising more questions than it is answering.

In this picture it show that the ejection seat triangle is red (but in other pictures that I have show it to be black) whilst the rescue panel on the port side and arrow are in yellow (I don't have a picture of this). But the strange thing is that the star and bar in this picture is in full colour that is red, white and blue. In all other pictures of any Eagle in this time period I have only seen black star and bars, and that includes the Wing and Sqn commander aircraft that have white edging to the tail codes and extra badges on the sides of the aircraft. So with this I am now really puzzled as to what is correct. I know that people will say that the picture is proof, but somehow I am not sure that it is. This photo is credited to the department of defence, so I am assuming that it has come from official sources. The other worrying thing is that neither of the decal sheet instructions or the sheet inself provide any of this information, which one of them states at the bottom of the instruction sheet was made with the help of the personnel from the 33rd Wing. If this was a unique aircraft with the coloured national marking, surely I would have thought that someone would have remembered it and told the decal manufacturers?

This pcture does not show any kill markings under the front windscreen, but I have another picture, which does not show the star and bar clearly, but it looks coloured, and also shows the kill markings associated with this aircaft.

Any help will be very welcome.

Edited by Jabba29
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I am making a model of the title aircraft using the Hasegawa kit and all was going fine until it came to the decalling. After applying the bigger decals I started looking at the stencelling. I saw that the kit decal sheet included a lot of coloured stencils, which from photos that I have in books show that this is not so (mainly black), but I was still unsure. Then last night looking through a book that I don't use that often I fouund a picture of the actual aircraft, but it is now raising more questions than it is answering.

In this picture it show that the ejection seat triangle is red (but in other pictures that I have show it to be black) whilst the rescue panel on the port side and arrow are in yellow (I don't have a picture of this). But the strange thing is that the star and bar in this picture is in full colour that is red, white and blue. In all other pictures of any Eagle in this time period I have only seen black star and bars, and that includes the Wing and Sqn commander aircraft that have white edging to the tail codes and extra badges on the sides of the aircraft. So with this I am now really puzzled as to what is correct. I know that people will say that the picture is proof, but somehow I am not sure that it is. This photo is credited to the department of defence, so I am assuming that it has come from official sources. The other worrying thing is that neither of the decal sheet instructions or the sheet inself provide any of this information, which one of them states at the bottom of the instruction sheet was made with the help of the personnel from the 33rd Wing. If this was a unique aircraft with the coloured national marking, surely I would have thought that someone would have remembered it and told the decal manufacturers?

This pcture does not show any kill markings under the front windscreen, but I have another picture, which does not show the star and bar clearly, but it looks coloured, and also shows the kill markings associated with this aircaft.

Any help will be very welcome.

I researched 85-114 as I was going to build that jet for my Desert Storm theme, but changed my mind because of the high-vis markings. I wanted something more regular. the jet did in fact have those high-vis stencils and insignia markings during war, and had the flag kill marking(s) as your pictures show (or I've seen). 114 wasn't the only jet with high-vis stars-and-bars, I believe 118 also had them as well but I would have to check my reference pictures.

of course with any build, it's always best to check actual pictures of the real plane if you want accuracy. It happens often enough that decal sheets aren't accurate.

Some extra things to keep in mind about that squadron during Desert Storm:

They were MSIP jets with lau-128 rails, and did carry some AIM-120s on later sorties. However, they did have that cover over the arrestor hook.

some jets were painted in wing markings for the William Tell met, these had a special badge / insignia where the squadron patch would be and "33rd TFW" on the fin. 85-114 was not one of these planes.

Edited by Benner
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They were MSIP jets with lau-128 rails, and did carry some AIM-120s on later sorties.

From the top of my head - weren't these carried on the aft two fuselage corners only in that timeframe..?

Cheers,

Andre

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I researched 85-114 as I was going to build that jet for my Desert Storm theme, but changed my mind because of the high-vis markings. I wanted something more regular. the jet did in fact have those high-vis stencils and insignia markings during war, and had the flag kill marking(s) as your pictures show (or I've seen). 114 wasn't the only jet with high-vis stars-and-bars, I believe 118 also had them as well but I would have to check my reference pictures.

of course with any build, it's always best to check actual pictures of the real plane if you want accuracy. It happens often enough that decal sheets aren't accurate.

Some extra things to keep in mind about that squadron during Desert Storm:

They were MSIP jets with lau-128 rails, and did carry some AIM-120s on later sorties. However, they did have that cover over the arrestor hook.

some jets were painted in wing markings for the William Tell met, these had a special badge / insignia where the squadron patch would be and "33rd TFW" on the fin. 85-114 was not one of these planes.

Thanks for that, at least now I know that I am not going completely mad. One other question thoug, did this aircraft carry the full colour star and bars in all four positions, as all the photos that I have only show the port forward fuselage.

Also does anyone know when the markings were change, because as I said earlier, there are photos about that show this aircraft with black stencilling?

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RepliScale did a sheet with markings for 33 TFW Gulf MIG Killer F-15s on sheet 48-5034, it includes pilot names and kill markings for several jets, including Capt Cesar "Rico" Rodriguez. The sheet includes squadron badges and tail markings but no national insignia or stencils.

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Thanks for that, at least now I know that I am not going completely mad. One other question thoug, did this aircraft carry the full colour star and bars in all four positions, as all the photos that I have only show the port forward fuselage.

Also does anyone know when the markings were change, because as I said earlier, there are photos about that show this aircraft with black stencilling?

I don't have top / bottom pics of 114, but it is most likely all sides were full colour stars and bars. Pics of 118 show full color on top and bottom of the wings.

The markings would have been changed sometime after the war; there are pictures of it having returned to Eglin AFB still having the full colour markings.

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Thanks for that, at least now I know that I am not going completely mad. One other question thoug, did this aircraft carry the full colour star and bars in all four positions, as all the photos that I have only show the port forward fuselage.

Also does anyone know when the markings were change, because as I said earlier, there are photos about that show this aircraft with black stencilling?

I have a feeling the pictures you see/saw with black stenciling, are of the Gate Guard painted to look like, 0114.

Pictures of it from both sides, port and starboard. "Note" the warts on the nose also.

http://www.dstorm.eu/pictures/nose-arts/f-15/usa/85-0114_3.jpg

http://www.f-15.nl/pics/85-0114_01.jpg

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RepliScale did a sheet with markings for 33 TFW Gulf MIG Killer F-15s on sheet 48-5034, it includes pilot names and kill markings for several jets, including Capt Cesar "Rico" Rodriguez. The sheet includes squadron badges and tail markings but no national insignia or stencils.

I am using the 1/72nd version of this sheet, but although it does include national markings, these are not in colour. This is also the sheet that states at the bottom that it had help from 33rd Wing personnel, which is why I don't know why there are no colour national markings.

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I have a feeling the pictures you see/saw with black stenciling, are of the Gate Guard painted to look like, 0114.

The pictures that I have seen are from bookseither about the 1991 conflict or about F-15Cs taking part in the said conflict. They show the aircraft when it is being refulled, and pictures show the aircraft with either none, 1 or 2 Iraqi kill markins applied. So these were pictures taken during the actual event.

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I don't have top / bottom pics of 114, but it is most likely all sides were full colour stars and bars. Pics of 118 show full color on top and bottom of the wings.

The markings would have been changed sometime after the war; there are pictures of it having returned to Eglin AFB still having the full colour markings.

Thanks for that and to all the others who have provided information. I think that I will apply full colour stars and bars to all four position from the information that you have all given me.

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The pictures that I have seen are from bookseither about the 1991 conflict or about F-15Cs taking part in the said conflict. They show the aircraft when it is being refulled, and pictures show the aircraft with either none, 1 or 2 Iraqi kill markins applied. So these were pictures taken during the actual event.

In the pictures, you can make out the serial for 85-0114 with black stencils?

Some of their aircraft did have black stenciling. If I recall right, 85-0114 went from Hi Vis to Mod eagle.

Edited by Wayne S
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In the pictures, you can make out the serial for 85-0114 with black stencils?

Some of their aircraft did have black stenciling. If I recall right, 85-0114 went from Hi Vis to Mod eagle.

Sorry to say I can't make out the serial No in one of the pictures, it is just that the name plate is visible, so unless Capt Rodriquez's name was applied to other aircraft, I can only say that this is that aircraft. The strange thing is that in this picture where there is one Iraqi kill flag under the name plate there is a black ejection seat triangle, where in another picture with no flag, the triangle is red, and this is the same in another picture with two Iraqi kill flags. The last two also show the full colour national marking, but only just on the last one which took me a while to be sure.Also there seems to be a change in the style of name plate in these pictures. In the one with the 1 kill, it has his rank, nickname, surname and a star at the beginning and end. there is close up picture, which I think is taken at the same time as one of the others, where the nameplate his rank, full name and his nickname under these in quotation marks. There are two stars at the end of his surname, but these are his kill markings. So this is where I am a bit puzzled.

Edited by Jabba29
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I believe I read somewhere that the green stars next to name were kill credits for that pilot. The Iraqi flags under the name credit that airframe for the kill.

From what i understand, during the war the name plates were painted over. Often, pilots are not flying the plane with their name on it.

I know for sure that iraqi flags were painted on to represent kills for that plane. after the war, names were painted back on with stars beside the name representing kills by that pilot. i don't know waht name was on 114 before deployment but it wouldn't surprise me if they put his Rodriguez on 114 because that is thr olane he flew for his kill(s). one of the regular planes got painted as the wing jet because it was the high scorer with three aircraft shot down.

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From what i understand, during the war the name plates were painted over. Often, pilots are not flying the plane with their name on it.

I know for sure that iraqi flags were painted on to represent kills for that plane. after the war, names were painted back on with stars beside the name representing kills by that pilot. i don't know waht name was on 114 before deployment but it wouldn't surprise me if they put his Rodriguez on 114 because that is thr olane he flew for his kill(s). one of the regular planes got painted as the wing jet because it was the high scorer with three aircraft shot down.

That could be a logical answer. The decal sheet instructions do say that the nameplates were painted over, but most of the pictures that I have seen of F-15s being refueled during the conflict still have them painted on. yet again I fear that the fog of war might be behind this.

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That could be a logical answer. The decal sheet instructions do say that the nameplates were painted over, but most of the pictures that I have seen of F-15s being refueled during the conflict still have them painted on. yet again I fear that the fog of war might be behind this.

Just so we are clear here, I believe Benner is writing of the possibility of the original Pilots name being painted over/ replaced.

There was a few different ways the kills etc. were done over time, "Instance" If one looks at the port side picture that I posted above of 85-0114, one should be able to make out the aircraft at one time had a Large Star on it. The remains of it is vaguely seen to the right of the aoa prob.

Two pictures that I linked to, should be from the month of May right after the War.

Edited by Wayne S
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Ok I am looking through my saved pictures and someone on another modelling forum had posted a bunch oc photos from Desert Storm and 85-114 is in a photo fully loaded and the crew name is on the jet and 2 Iraqi flags are under it but no green stars. I believe the photos were taken from an individual who was a boom operater on KC-135's. I am sure the photo was taken during a CAP. I cannot read the pilots name on the jet. I am not a computer guru and do not know how to post the picture here plus I am thinking it would be a copyright issue if I could post it here. I actually have plans to do this same jet some day.

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http://www.scalemodelworld.net.net/showthread.php?t=7389&page=5

I will try and post this link but I don't think it will work due to conflicts between these two modelling forum sites. This link has a close up photo of 85-114 and a distant photo that shows what I am talking about in the post above. If the link here does not work does anyone know how I can send it to the original poster of this posting?

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Thanks for all the help that is being given. I have overnight come up with a theory, which maybe right or could be totally wrong.

In the first picture that I have which show an F-15C being refuelled, it has black stencelling and 1 Iraqi flag as a kill by that aircraft. This also shows the painted over bigger star. It also has the nameplate of Capt Rodriquez. But I cannot see the serial No of this aircraft, but the caption says that it is 85-114, but I don't think that it is, but it maybe the aircraft that Capt Rodriquez was assigned at the start of the war.

The second picture is of 85-114, and has full colour national markings and stencilling. There are no kill markings, but I can't make out the nameplate. So I think this aircraft was at this time actually assigned to another pilot.

The third picture is again of 85-114 with full colour national markings and stencilling, but with both Iraqi flag and stars on the nameplate kill markings. This also has Capt Rodriquez name on the nameplate, and I think that this was assigned to him as a "coming home parade" aircraft. This picture I think maybe taken when the aircraft returned to Elgin.

As I said this is just a theory and I may have added 2+2 and got 5, but it does sound a bit plausable.

Edited by Jabba29
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go to Z5 and search misc. desert storm shots. Or go to Aviation photography page 11. As I thought the link above would not work.

Thanks very much for that. I found the pages that you suggested after I wrote the above post, and there really are some interesting subjects ppictured, plus some interesting stories. I found the pictures of 85-114, and from what I see it seems to confirm what I have written above, but then I still maybe wrong.

Yet again thank you.

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