A-10 LOADER Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Steve, if you're reading this, I still think there's a MK 82 on Station 6 on page 153 of Dunridge's book. Am I crazy? I'd like to stick one here too if it isn't totally "wrong". Hi Chuck, the angle that the photo is shot at may appear to have station 6 loaded but, it's really 5&7 that are loaded, trust me. Like I said, I'm 99.9% sure that sta. #6 is no longer cleared for weapons. I know the fuel tank can go there but, no weapons. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Hi Chuck, the angle that the photo is shot at may appear to have station 6 loaded but, it's really 5&7 that are loaded, trust me. Like I said, I'm 99.9% sure that sta. #6 is no longer cleared for weapons. I know the fuel tank can go there but, no weapons. Steve Thanks Steve and Jari for all that info. Station 6 will have nothing- and I even found a pic where the #6 pylon was removed completely as well, although I'll leave it there since that is more typical. I have been working on all 11 pylons and they are a bit of pain. No surprise there!- and I'll have some pics of my pylon modifications fairly soon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Here is another Stn 6 load: http://www.tinker.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/080529-F-2828D-438.jpg http://www.tinker.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/080502-f-0000b-186.jpg Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
A-10 LOADER Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Finn, nice find. That first pic is an A-10 from my former unit (111FW, PA.ANG). This was taken in either 2002 or 2008 in Afghanistan. I did not go on the Afghan trips. If you notice in that pic sta. # 5&7 are removed altogether, can't remember why we did this either. I could be wrong about station 6 not cleared for weapons. I thought once the A-10 community started to find stress cracks with the wings and in other areas that after this timeframe we did not load 6 anymore ?? Can't remember. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) Speaking of Stations and Pylons, I finally made all 11 of them. Not surprisingly, they are mostly wrong in almost every respect when compared to pages 90 and 91 of the Hog Guide, which has great pics of every pylon from both sides. To make them very accurate, you would have to putty up the sides and start all over with new panel lines and rivets. I decided to just go with a "75% Solution", where about 3/4's of the pylon is correct and the rest is "art". The biggest flaw is that the sway bar assemblies are way too far apart and they should be centered in the middle third of each pylon, rather than split the pylon into 3 roughly equal segments. Modifying this would be a nightmare- hence the 75% solution. Like most parts in this kit, the pylon halves take a lot of work to get them to join together properly and remove seam marks. Once you've accomplished that, the pylons could use a lot more detail, such as additional rivets and "keyholes" for the pylon to fuselage attachment, as well as the pylon to weapon attachments. At least that's what I think they are for- am I right or wrong? All pylons other than station 6 have an identical twin, like an unmodified Pylon 11 at the top and a modified Pylon 1 on the bottom of this pic. All rivets were re-punched and all panel lines re-scribed, like the rest of this model. This was my first attempt and I have since fixed a number of items, like that square opening at the bottom with the 2 circular marks within it. Here is the same two pylons almost completed. I changed the square opening to include some styrene rod for large bolt-like features, which are always found on the port side of all pylons, but not the starboard. These two pylons also have refueling spotlights on the inside of each pylon, which I made from lead wire cut at an angle. Since these lights look very metallic looking, I may leave them unpainted by removing further paint with a microbrush and solvent. Here is Stn 2/10, with the unmodified part on top and modified part on the bottom as before. I added a few more rivets to the base of the pylons later.... Here are the same two pylons modified, showing the symmetrical hole pattern from side to side, other than the square cutout on the bottom port side... Same deal for Pylon 3/9 And Pylon 4/8 Pylons 5/7 Completed Pylons 5 & 7 on the bottom with Pylon 6 at the top- which does not have a twin because it sits in the middle of the fuselage. Note that the port side of pylon 5 has panel lines at the front (bottom left) but just rivets on the other starboard side (middle right). This phenomenon seems to be on almost all the pylons- maybe an access door? It would be a good idea to number each pylon on the top, so that pylons 1 and 11 are placed correctly with the lights on the inside, but because the fit to the wing is all over the place. Eg. The fit of pylon 2 is different than pylon 10, etc. after dry fitting and tweaking, even though it's the same part. Unlike any jet I've ever built before, the pylons fit into depressions within the wings, which is just so-so for fit, leaving a fairly large gap which shouldn't be there. The A-10 pylon to wing fit is very tight and there appears to be a gasket in many cases, so after thinking about it for awhile, I decided to use lead wire as the gasket instead of filler or putty. The gap gets filled and the pylon to wing demarcation line is retained, just like the real deal. Here's the # 2 and # 3 pylons dry fitted to the wing, with some 0.4 mm lead wire from UMM filling the gap. Perfect! With the pylons assembled, I can now get back to sanding and detailing the remaining starboard wing- which brings me to another tip I recently learned. When using liquid sprue, let the stuff dry for at least 1-2 weeks before you sand it if you can wait. Although it will sand after drying only a day or so, it is much easier to work with when it is very hard and dry, which takes a bit of time. It also tends to warp a bit as it dries, so if you sand it too early, you may be going back over it later for repairs. Next up will be wing to fuselage attachment, which I've heard is not so hot. We'll see- and thanks for your support, info and interest guys! Edited January 14, 2014 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) For those wondering why I bother with tiny pylon details, here's why. They can look killer with a bit of paint and a dark wash. Almost every panel line and rivet was added to this Tamiya F-4 pylon according to pics. OOB, it's pretty plain without it.... Same for this Academy one.... Edited January 14, 2014 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VA-115EFR Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 For those wondering why I bother with tiny pylon details, here's why. They can look killer with a bit of paint and a dark wash.... ...and your finished products shows those little things pay off BIG TIME!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Here are some pylon pics: http://www.afcent.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/101110-F-9209C-425.jpg http://www.188fw.ang.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/102002-F-8013S-040.JPG http://www.188fw.ang.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/100202-F-8013S-060.JPG Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
A-10 LOADER Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Chuck the pylons look really good. Keep it up man. That "square opening with the 2 circular marks within it" is where the carts would be installed. Carts are like little shotgun shells, they help push the weapon away from the jet when it's dropped, and these carts are electrically fired when the pilot hits the pickle button in the cockpit. Those 2 "bolt like" items within the square opening are called cart retainers. They have a 7/8" socket head and you install the carts into these then screw the retainers into the rack and they get torqued to 275 in. lbs. The second pic that Finn posted, with the LAU-131 Rocket launcher in it, shows the cart retainers pretty well. Stations #1-2-10-11 are different from stations #3-4-5-6-7-8-9. 1-2-10-11 are called MAU-50's, those racks have a 14" lug spacing while #3-4-5-6-7-8-9, called MAU-40's, have a 14" & 30" lug spacing. The lugs are the attachment points on the bombs, rocket launchers, DRA's etc. This explains why you can only load certain items on certain stations plus, weight and balance comes into play along with that. Hope this helps. Looking forward to more. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Thanks for the info guys and great pics! I just can't replicate each pylon perfectly, because it would take way too much time to do and like many steps in modeling, the risk/work vs reward ratio isn't high enough for me to bother with- hence the "75% solution". I do, however, plan on making each and every pod, bomb, rocket launcher and missile as good as possible, which will draw your eye away from the details of the pylon. I'm also going to try and see if those little magnets might work to hold each item to the pylon. The pylons are too narrow to stick a magnet on the bottom, but maybe if I bury a magnet in the ordnance and have a steel strip on the pylon, I'll wind up with something that might work without glue. The rest of this model should be fun. I've got most of the heavy lifting out of the way now and I can concentrate on details, details, details like the ordnance and other little bits I have yet to add, then it's on to my favorite part of modeling: Painting! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
galfa Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Pics! Pics! Pics! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
galfa Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Pics! Pics! Pics! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Here are some detail pics of the rocket pods, note the rocket in the bottom tube :D : http://www.442fw.afrc.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/060513-F-3849K-020.jpg http://www.afcent.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/111202-F-ZU607-020.jpg Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
A-10 LOADER Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 You have a good eye Jari, I would always do stuff like that. Everything I ever loaded I always wrote something on it or put the faces on the tips of the rockets. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stalal Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Chuck! Great build as always. I was wondering with so much effort to make it look accurate, you would have been better off moulding the kit yourself! :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peterpools Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hi Chuck Just loving your Hog build more and more. The work on the pylons and the gaskets just adds another dimension and level of detail to appreciate. Keep 'em coming Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doughboy Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Ohh lord broken foil on the rocket! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JesniF-16 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) I don't know how you do it Chuck! Great progress /Jesse Edited January 16, 2014 by JesniF-16 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) Thanks again guys. It's always great to receive a pat on the back, whether it's justified or not! Random Modeling Thoughts: No real update today, but I assure you I have made a lot of progress since my last post. If I photographed my new accomplishments, you would likely wonder just what the heck I really did, because the changes are miniscule to the naked eye- but to me they are very important. This got me to thinking about some things I have learned about modeling over the past 6 years when I started to build aircraft- and lessons I am continuing to learn with each new challenge. Just for fun, I’ll throw a couple out there for your review and if you have some others you’d like to share, please throw them on the pile. Of course these are only my thoughts, but you might find them useful. 1) “Good Enough” is rarely good enough. I have consistently found that areas of a build that I found frustrating and I wound up doing something not up to par just get it over with, haunts me on the finished product. Walk away for a day or two and then try it again. Never cave to challenges! Do it right or not at all. 2) Sometimes “Good Enough” IS good enough! For this I’m not talking about an area of the build that readily shows like I was inferred above, but maybe something that doesn’t, because it will be buried or on the underside of the aircraft. A good example of this is the gear wells on this A-10. The kit ones are horrible so they need improvement, but since you won’t see the gear wells easily once finished, a little “lipstick on the pig” is probably all you need and all you'll ever see. I did a lot of gear well plumbing on my F-4E build I haven’t seen since the model was finished. The rear wheel well and air intake on my P-51D build were heavily modified with Eduard PE that took me a lot of time, but I can’t see the differences without a flashlight. Next time, I would skip those steps, because it just isn’t worth it. Measure the risk/difficulty vs. reward ratio every time you do something. You might save yourself a lot of grief by not doing something, for minimal upside if you do. Not opening up the gun and doors on this model is another good example. I skipped this step, because the rest of the model is difficult enough without creating extra work that you will rarely see. Same thing with revealing the engines. The resin engines are pure fantasy anyway, so why show them off? 3) Paint reveals a thousand sins. No matter how carefully you have glued and sanded putty and seams, there WILL be many flaws that you can’t see without paint on them. Always paint a thin “check/primer coat” to reveal and fix these flaws before you commit to final paint. 4) Try new things. One of the most enjoyable parts of modeling to me is to try out new modeling methods that are already out there, but also to try new things that nobody has likely thought of doing before. Liquid sprue is an oldie I tried for the first time in this build and now I’m sold on the stuff- with some new lessons along the way on how to use it properly. I’m using tiny magnets on this build, which has been done before as well, but I also experimented with using copper wire to create rivets and tubular lead for nose weight, which may not have been done before- or at least I haven’t seen it yet. I also experimented with using Krylon gloss black lacquer as a primer base for Alclad a few years ago, which is now a common practice, so I may have had some influence in this new trend. Not all my experiments work, however, and my batting average is only about .400, but it’s sure fun to give new methods a try. 5) Don’t rush things. If you are trying to squeeze in an hour’s worth of work into 45 minutes because of some other time commitment, don’t even try. You will do a crappy job, it will haunt you and if you’re lucky, you might get a second chance to do it all over again later. Besides, it’s no fun modeling in a rushed state. 6) Don’t rush the ending. We are all guilty of throwing all the little bits onto a model at the end to just get the darn thing finished. If you are posting a WIP thread, you want to show the boys how it all came together, which is both exciting and stressful. You want everything right, but you also want to finally see the conclusion. Trust me. Take your time or you might regret it. 7) Build for yourself. This has been difficult for me over the past few years as I tried to make a model that would place well at our annual IPMS model contests. What I like and what judges like are sometimes two different things, but I’m not getting into details (again!) to debate model contest judging. If you like your models fairly dirty like do, then make ‘em dirty! If you like what you do and 80% of the other modelers out there like it as well, you’re doing pretty darn good. There’s always somebody who won’t like something you did (or didn’t do), so just go with what gives you modeling enjoyment. Edited January 21, 2014 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kike Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I really ike reading your threads Chuck! not just because of the awesome work you do, but because you always have something usefull to say! I've learned from your last two builds more than I have learned the last three years! keep helping us "small" modellers cause that ispiration is helping a lot! at least with me it works wonders Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) I really ike reading your threads Chuck! not just because of the awesome work you do, but because you always have something usefull to say! I've learned from your last two builds more than I have learned the last three years! keep helping us "small" modellers cause that ispiration is helping a lot! at least with me it works wonders Thank you sir. This one response made the effort of posting the above all worthwhile! I'm sure there are guys out there who think, "Who does this dude think he is posting all that crap", as they roll their eyes. :rolleyes:/> Oh well, just like I place pics of bears and vacation pics in my threads, I just feel like it! As far as being a "small" modeler is concerned, nobody is small if they enjoy this hobby in any form, but we all have different skill levels due to practice, practice, practice. It wasn't that long ago I made a 1/32 Revell F-15E that has the worst silvered decals you've ever seen. At the time I made it, a much more skilled modeler said that they were "deal killers" and it didn't matter what I did to the rest of the model, they overpowered the entire build. At the time I thought "what?", but now I know he was very correct. I still learn new stuff every day and hopefully get a bit better with each build. So will you! Edited January 21, 2014 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jim.skinner Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I think you just read my mind and listed all of the things that I do wrong :lol: Well, except for the last point. Because I am guilty of all the others, I'm nowhere near entering a contest! Cheers, Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
A-10 LOADER Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Great points you have there Chuck. IMO #7 is the most important one, building for yourself. I use to belong to a model club and we were part of an IPMS chapter. Guys were always building just to win contests. We all need to remember why we got started in this great hobby, to have fun, enjoy what you do and, always improving on your skills. At the end of the day that finished model is gonna sit on your shelf and your the one who is going to see it everyday so build it how you want it to look and be proud of what you built. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Great points you have there Chuck. IMO #7 is the most important one, building for yourself. I use to belong to a model club and we were part of an IPMS chapter. Guys were always building just to win contests. We all need to remember why we got started in this great hobby, to have fun, enjoy what you do and, always improving on your skills. At the end of the day that finished model is gonna sit on your shelf and your the one who is going to see it everyday so build it how you want it to look and be proud of what you built. Steve I meet with a bunch of former IPMS Club members who no longer want to be part of the local Club. Like almost any organization of several people, there's a bunch of political crap in this Club that turns guys off (including me), so we meet every month or so at a coffee shop or somebody's house to yak about modeling and maybe show off our most recent build. For the most part, these guys are what I would call "Master Modelers" and they win gold all the time at local contests. They are also judges too, so I have learned a lot from them as to what it takes to win. Thankfully they never build at 1/32 scale, so I don't need to be afraid of going head to head with them, but their style is usually super clean, even on wartime fighters. Although their builds are pretty much flawless (hence all the gold medals), they don't turn me on because they don't look very realistic to me. In turn, when I show them one of my "dirty birds", I can see them cringe as they get down close and look at all the soiled details. The point of all this is, "To each their own"! They are happy with their clean little toys and I'm happy with my dirty little toys- and I will never build a clean one just to win a contest. I might, however, build another Tamiya P-51D Mustang as a "restored" bird that will be super clean, because that IS accurate and it might be fun to go over to the "clean side" for a change of pace. Oh, and just in case you were wondering, this Hog is going to be quite dirty- like it should! Edited January 21, 2014 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattJCYKZ Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Thanks for your great advise Chuck! It is like you've read my mind. I've learned from many mistakes that you've described in your post. Rushing on the home stretch had surely cost me in the quality of finish but that's how we lean and I can definitely say I've leaned from that. I have to agree with the other posters here and say that building for your self is the most important part of the hobby. I've been building since I was 5 and now I'm 32. This year will be the first year that I'll actually have models at a show for competition and display (valourcon in Winnipeg)and though I think it would be great to win something, I'm proud of all my builds, mistakes and all. After all I'm not perfect so neither will be the models. I've always felt that you leave a little of yourself in what you make. On a side note, it's truly a great hobby we have and watching folks like yourself build masterpieces is a pleasure to watch. Your 1/32 F-4e was partly an inspiration for my recently completed phantom and I hope you won't mind that I based my models parachute housing and door on your construction. It simply looked to good not to reference it. Congrats on all your builds and making the front cover of FSM not once but twice. Again well said! MattJCYKZ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.