1/32 Trumpeter A-10C Hog- "Putting Lipstick on a Pig of a Kit"

[chuck540z3]

Whoa! Thanks guys. Those shots are just what I need!

One more question: Does that big hole at the top of the sway brace inboard of the pin/pad go all the way through the brace- or just half way through? I think it might be all the way through as another location for the pin/pads.

Now I need to craft 22 braces with 44 pin/pad "thingies". :P

Edited September 26, 2014 by chuck540z3

[Finn]

Here are a couple of pics Chuck, note the larger dia and then a smaller dia hole:

http://www.peripheralarbor.com/gallery/d/2728-1/A10_02.JPG

Remember this pic:

http://airforcelive.dodlive.mil/files/2011/12/111202-F-ZU607-074.jpg

Looks like they go all the way thru, most likely the holes were for small diameter stores. Btw we called the pads crutch pads.

Jari

[boom175]

Please note that in A10LOADERS illustration of his T.O. the swaybrace adapter is used ONLY for the 25 lb BDU-33 not for the full size munitions. Also the A-10 has two size of bomb racks the MAU-40 and the MAU-50. The MAU-50 has 30" distance between swaybraces and the MAU-40 has a 14" distance between swaybraces

[Finn]

Actually the hooks in the bomb rack are 14" & 30" apart as stores have either 14" or 30" lugs, 1,000lb and under 14". Over 1,000lb 30" lugs, normally. Don't know what the spacing is on the sway braces. Here is another pic:

http://www.b-domke.de/AviationImages/Warthog/8615.html

note the difference between the one on the left and the right on the top of the swaybraces.

Jari

[boom175]

Actually the hooks in the bomb rack are 14" & 30" apart as stores have either 14" or 30" lugs, 1,000lb and under 14". Over 1,000lb 30" lugs, normally. Don't know what the spacing is on the sway braces. Here is another pic:

http://www.b-domke.de/AviationImages/Warthog/8615.html

note the difference between the one on the left and the right on the top of the swaybraces.

Jari

Your Right as rain!!!! My mistake!!!!!! See what happens when you retire!! Cant remember $h!t!!!

[chuck540z3]

Thanks again guys! The pic that really helps me is the tiny one by Sharkmouth below, that shows the sway brace from the top (impossible pic to find!) and the position of a second hole inboard of the outside pin/pad assembly. Other pics above show this same hole on the bottom, so it must go all the way through. I bet this is just another pin location for specific ordnance, but what do I know?

When placed on the pylon and attached to a bomb or pod, you won't see hardly anything from the bottom, but that hole at the top is clearly visible, which is exactly what I was trying to find. Hopefully I can get these made up and posted before I leave.

Cheers,

Chuck

[Joel_W]

A10 LOADER

Thank you for posting all those incredible pictures. I took the liberty of downloading them for future reference, especially for my up coming N/AW A-10 build.

Joel

[Finn]

A few more rack pics:

http://walkarounds.scalemodels.ru/d/289810-3/a-10c_0169.jpg

http://walkarounds.scalemodels.ru/d/289811-3/a-10c_0170.jpg

http://walkarounds.scalemodels.ru/d/289812-3/a-10c_0171.jpg

http://walkarounds.scalemodels.ru/d/289853-3/a-10c_0216.jpg

Jari

[skyhawk174]

Chuck that is some great work there. I sure hope to see this finished one day at a show here in Western Canada. I have several of the sets you used in your build but it looks like I have to get some more.

I have the Trumpeter N/AW-10 not the single seater. I will of course use your work as the standard I should try and achieve. Since I believe there was only one of the two seaters, I plan on doing a what-if, as in what if the CAF got the N/AW-10 as a Voodoo replacement. I can just see it now, shiny grey with that wonderful red and white go fast stripe. Of course it will have to be 416 Sqn since that is my favourite CAF squadron.

[A-10 LOADER]

Those inner holes do go all the way thru the sway brace Chuck. We moved the swaybrace screws inboard to these locations one day to see what it would look like and there is NOTHING you could sway with them in that location, they are very close together. Not really sure what the engineers were thinking on that one.

Steve

[chuck540z3]

Chuck that is some great work there. I sure hope to see this finished one day at a show here in Western Canada. I have several of the sets you used in your build but it looks like I have to get some more.

Hi Chris! I should have this Pig done for the next show in June at Nanton, so maybe you'll see it there? I look forward to meeting you.

Here’s a small update before I leave for a few weeks. One pic I neglected to take in my last post was a comparison of the kit AN/ALQ-184 pod to the AMS Resin one. This pic says it all about the Trumpeter kit parts: They are all horrible! The kit pod, like a lot of the parts, is pure fantasy and poorly made. That’s why this pig needs so much lipstick.

There’s no use in making improved ordnance and pylons if you use the kit sway braces. Here they are on and off the sprue.

Top and bottom when cut off the sprue. Seam lines everywhere!

The reason I was asking for detailed sway brace pics was to see what I could and should do to improve the kit parts. I decided to cut off all the sway brace details, other than the top “nut” for the pin, clean up the seam lines and create new pins and pads for the braces. The old pin locations were drilled out to accommodate new pins made of .02” styrene rod and the pads, which should be quite thin, were punched out of .01” styrene sheet. I left the pins a bit on the long side because the real deal is long anyway and I want to accommodate all sorts of ordnance dimension requirements. The pin holes were drilled on the loose side so that the pin moved freely, even after paint. I also added the inner holes later as per the sway brace discussion above.

To do all this takes a lot of time. There are 22 sway braces for 11 stations. Each brace needs 4 holes drilled, so there’s 44 pin/pads to make up and 88 holes to drill. With trimming and cleanup, each brace takes about 15-20 minutes each, so you’re looking at about 5-6 hours of work if you want to do the same. I hated doing it, but I think it was worth it in the end.

Here’s 18 of them all made up and painted with Tamiya semi-gloss black lacquer, followed by Alclad Gunmetal lacquer.

The central 5, 6 and 7 pylons were left off the fuselage because they didn’t need gaps filled around the pylons like the wing pylons, so here’s how a couple of the sway braces look on pylon 5/7. The curvature of the sway brace isn’t tight enough, so the pins don’t hit the bomb at a perfect right angle, but it’s “good enough”- and certainly better than the kit parts would be unaltered. Left as is, most of the sway braces would never touch the ordnance, which would look pretty bad. With the pins I inserted into the top of the bomb (and all other ordnance), these just slide into holes in the pylon with no glue required with a snug fit.

Under the harsh light some of the decals on the bomb look like they could be a bit silvered, but to the naked eye, I see none of it.

So that’s it for now boys. I should have a new update in about 3 weeks. Thanks for your continued interest in this huge project!

Chuck

[Marcel111]

Wow, that looks absolutely fantastic! I will re-engage my MERs once done with Chico and there is quite a bit to learn here from me.

Marcel

[Finn]

Great work as usual Chuck but just a little point, crutch pads are free moving so no matter what store is loaded, the crutch pad will be flush against the surface of it. That way they securely hold the store in place. You can see in this pic:

http://www.cranetechnologiesinc.com/Ordnance/SwayBraces1.jpg

what they are like.

edit: here is a better example:

http://www.osan.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/120505-F-AK519-005.jpg

note the crutch pads on the front are angled while the one at the back, above the rear lug, is horizontal. Once it makes contact with the weapon it will sit flush against the bomb. Being a training weapon you can see the marks from the crutch pads after numerous loading.

Jari

Edited September 27, 2014 by Finn

[chuck540z3]

Great work as usual Chuck but just a little point, crutch pads are free moving so no matter what store is loaded, the crutch pad will be flush against the surface of it. That way they securely hold the store in place. You can see in this pic:

note the crutch pads on the front are angled while the one at the back, above the rear lug, is horizontal. Once it makes contact with the weapon it will sit flush against the bomb. Being a training weapon you can see the marks from the crutch pads after numerous loading.

Jari

Yeah, I know Jari, but there's just no way I'm going to make specific pad angles for every single thing I hang from the pylons. It was tough enough to get the little pads to stick to the rod in the first place, so I'd just be asking for grief I don't really need. That's why I said it was "good enough"! :P

[Finn]

We'll forgive you Chuck, this time. ;) A little tid bit about the extra holes, the F-5 had the same type of sway braces:

http://aircraftwalkaround.hobbyvista.com/f5/f5_13.jpg

most likely the same company made them for the A-10 as well.

Jari

[chuck540z3]

Wow, that looks absolutely fantastic! I will re-engage my MERs once done with Chico and there is quite a bit to learn here from me.

Marcel

Hi Buddy. I thought of using those little brass screws you mentioned a few months ago, but there's two issues with this particular model:

1) The pad is very thin in real life, but the screw heads are too thick.

2) You can't see the screw threads of the pins on the real deal from, say, 16 feet away, so there's no use worrying about seeing any threads at 6" on this 1/32 model. If you can see them clearly, they are too thick for scale.

Anyway, I need to move on with this model and there's not much left to do that's a major step. It will just take a lot of time to get all the little bits put on properly and finalize the weathering, which will be relatively subtle (for a change!).

[GEH737]

I've never wanted to buy someone else's model.

Until now...

Seriously.

[Joel_W]

Chuck,

As usual, just amazing attention to detail. Have a great vacation.

Joel

[A-10 LOADER]

HOLY JESUS Chuck, you are a magician with plastic !! The sway pads and braces look AWESOME !! Great job man, looking forward to more upon your return.

BTW Who makes that punch set and where did you find it ?

Steve

[zaxos345]

Chuck, i am really speechless...awesome work as always!!

Steve i think is from Micromark, same as mine, but Chuck is the ''boss'' here!

John

[chuck540z3]

Thanks Guys!

Steve i think is from Micromark, same as mine, but Chuck is the ''boss'' here!

John

Right you are John. It is stupid expensive at $60 + shipping and it's not even made all that special, but I can't believe I didn't get one sooner because I use it all the time now. There are competitor punch sets out there which are likely just as good, but they all seem to cost about the same so I'm not sure if there is better value with any of them. Here's the link to the punch set:

Micro-Mark Punch Set

[Joel_W]

Chuck,

I needed a punch set as well. I looked at the Micro-Mark set, but didn't really like it for a few reasons. the 1st is that the punches are just stainless steel rods. Over time the odds are that you will be using both ends interchangeably, causing the edges to round off from being hit by a small hammer. Also I don't think that the individual punches are replaceable. the die itself is only held together by just two mounting screws. Again,not the best method for longevity. And the bottom plate looks like some type of plastic.

I found this set on the UMM site.

They actually have two different sets, which each having 12 different size punches. the bottom plate is stainless steel, not plastic, and it is attached by 4 screws. The punches themselves are real punches so you can't accidently strike both ends. Individual punches are available if needed. The cost was only $60.

Joel

[chuck540z3]

Thanks for for posting the UMM set Joel. If I was to buy a new set, I'd buy this one for sure. UMM has great products and even better service.

As far as the Micro-Mark set is concerned, I only use a rubber hammer to tap the dies and the bottom plate is pretty solid stainless steel, so it should last several years with occasional use. It sure isn't worth $60 though, so I'd rather have the UMM set.

[Peterpools]

Chuck

Killer work on the sway braces and pylons .. terrific attention to the details.

BTW, I bought the same punch set many moons ago from Micro Mart and use it quite a bit. By brother has pointed out numerous times the differences between my set and his (UMM) and there is a world of difference I have noticed over time, that the holes on the upper plastic guides have started to widen a bit but the s/s punches are good as new; yup, I do use a small tack hammer.

Keep 'em coming

Peter

[PackersMan]

Fantastic work Chuck I'm new on here so would love some advice .This is my favorite aircraft and want to do this 1/32 kit .I have been looking at the 1 and 2 seater versions can you or anyone else tell me are the 2 models identical other than the cockpit difference, are the trumpeter models the same age as I wondered why the 2 seater is always a bit cheaper than the 1 seater when it obviously uses more parts .Your help would be greatfully appreciated and I can't wait to see your finished A-10 ...many thanks Gary (PackersMan)