BOC262 Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 A friend alerted me to the possibility that lead used as weight for tricycle geared models can undergo a chemical reaction that causes it to crystallize and expand over time. The expanding lead will eventually exert enough force to spilt seams and destroy even single piece nose cones. He showed me pictures of models that were anywhere from 10 to 15 years old, split to pieces and looking pretty much unsalavageable. He believes the problem is more likely to occur with "old" lead--supposedly newer lead alloys are less likely to crystallize. There is also some speculation that this may be a reaction between lead and CA glue. Here is a link to that European site showing pix of models split apart by expanding lead/CA: http://www.ratomodeling.com/articles/lead_ca/lead_ca.html I use lead bird shot secured with CA glue to weight my trike geared models, so this news really has me worried. I have a lot of rare, OOP models and I would hate to see them destroyed this way. Has anyone experienced this problem? What are your oldest models with lead weight and what is their condition? Do you typically use CA to secure your lead weights? What are the typical weather conditions where you live? Could it be an issue of extreme humidity or temperature? Perhaps other factors causing it to happen? Or factors to prevent it? Why would it happen to some, but not others? Thanks for any further thoughts on this--I'm really worried for the future of my models. Karl Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flyingfortress Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Same here, first I've ever heard of such a thing. I've been using old lead wheel weights for years with CA and never had anything happen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
billw Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I've always used 5-minute epoxy for nose weights. Never had a problem with it over time. BW Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnopfor Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I've used CA glue and cast-lead fishing weight for years, never had a single problem..... The only explosions that I had a problem with is with my butt after eating too much Taco Bell..... ;)/> Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dkobayashi Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 First I've ever heard of it- my late uncle used lead and CA as weights, and I have inherited all his old models. Many succumbed to just old age, but none of the lead explosions described here. Some of these models are probably around 20-30 years old. Personally, I use CA glue and old nuts, bolts and screws from aircraft.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B-17 guy Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Fine steel shot and elmers glue. You'd be surprised where you can get this to fit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I have several boxes of lead core Mi Garrand ammo (30-06) new in the box. Date of manufacture is around 1943, and they've never exploded! Originally I had about twelve boxes of the stuff, but now have four or five boxes. Upon pulling the bullets in my Co-Ax press I saw nothing wrong other than a very stiff bullet crimp. I think it's an old wives tale! gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mlicari Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Most likely this problem is not the result of mixing lead with CA glue. If it happens, it's "lead rot" which is a chemical reaction that forms lead carbonate. I think a lot of the problem is due to cheap/polluted lead used by manufacturers, probably mostly in the 1980s (from what I know, the fantasy miniatures boom in the 1980s drove up the price of lead and manufacturers were looking for ways to lower their materials costs). I don't think it's really an issue for us, but if you're really worried, you can always use other metals for weights (steel fishing weights are now available, for example). Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nightiemission Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 This subject crops up occasionally. I've been producing and using lead weights for 20+ years and have never had a problem securing them with CA. My only advice would be to let the CA gas out completely before closing up wherever the weight was placed and don't use a large amount of it. It may be possible for some interaction between some brands/formulas of CA and some plastics over time, however, I'm not real sure about that. Just my $.02 Worth, Terry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B-17 guy Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I have several boxes of lead core Mi Garrand ammo (30-06) new in the box. Date of manufacture is around 1943, and they've never exploded! Originally I had about twelve boxes of the stuff, but now have four or five boxes. Upon pulling the bullets in my Co-Ax press I saw nothing wrong other than a very stiff bullet crimp. I think it's an old wives tale! gary I'd hold onto that ammo, getting harder and harder to find everyday, and more expensive. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheFlyingDutchman Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I have seen that link some time ago and immediately stopped gluing lead with CA in my models. Only when I have very little space to put some nose weight in I use lead because it can be forced more easily into shape, but then I attach it with white glue. Just to be sure. All other times I just use nuts and bolts and other stainless steel objects I can find. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nerdling Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I've been using lead for years and never had an issue either. I've seen that article before but that is the only place I've ever read anything about that happening. Heck I've got some lead minnie balls from the Civil War and they've not exploded either lol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FAR148 Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I use pennies, screws, nuts & bolts with super glue or 5-minute epoxy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I suspect that one of the reasons that it is rare is the actual lead alloys used No one that worked on cars in a shop would build a model with that same compound of lead alloy in their models,,,,,,,,,they all know that those "corrosion crystals" are very real, and that they are hard, and larger volume than the lead post/clamp that they come out of I stopped using lead and switched to copper a long time ago,,,,,,,but, I also stopped using the "wonderful CA" when the "magic powder" article caused a rash of oozing puss out of the seems it was used as a filler Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I'd hold onto that ammo, getting harder and harder to find everyday, and more expensive. kind of a collector's item. I also have some M1 Garrand armor piercing ammo and some tracer in their original card board boxes. By the way the bullets were good enough to use over had I desired to. problem is that most all mil spec brass is junk. But good enough for the average hunting rifle if reloaded properly. gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Horrido Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Gone over with links in Tools 'n' Tips: http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=257325&st=0&p=2440963&hl=lead&fromsearch=1entry2440963 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 just a small note about lead alloys: wheel weights are pretty much pure lead with little if any Tin added. Linotype is about the hardest form of lead readilly available to the consumer, and even that's getting harder to come by used. Bullets are almost never made from pure lead, but usually an alloy called number two or else Linotype (harder than #2). The lead used in a car battery is one to stay away from, and nobody with a single digit IQ or higher will ever cast a bullet or sinker out of the stuff! It contains arsenic!! An even easier way is to simply drop by your local Walmart and buy the cheapest .177 pellets. They will be clean and safe to use as lead weights in the nose of an aircraft kit. Plus they are about $2.50 a box. You can also buy lead wire at just about any fly fishing shop in different diameters. They also sell lead free wire, but it's not quite as heavy (should work just fine)but non toxic. Even BB's will work just fine. gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BOC262 Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 just a small note about lead alloys: wheel weights are pretty much pure lead with little if any Tin added. Linotype is about the hardest form of lead readilly available to the consumer, and even that's getting harder to come by used. Bullets are almost never made from pure lead, but usually an alloy called number two or else Linotype (harder than #2). The lead used in a car battery is one to stay away from, and nobody with a single digit IQ or higher will ever cast a bullet or sinker out of the stuff! It contains arsenic!! An even easier way is to simply drop by your local Walmart and buy the cheapest .177 pellets. They will be clean and safe to use as lead weights in the nose of an aircraft kit. Plus they are about $2.50 a box. You can also buy lead wire at just about any fly fishing shop in different diameters. They also sell lead free wire, but it's not quite as heavy (should work just fine)but non toxic. Even BB's will work just fine. gary Thanks for the additional info! I use lead bird shot purchased from a gun shop back in the '80s. Bought a big sack of it and suspect it will last the rest of my life. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BOC262 Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Gone over with links in Tools 'n' Tips: http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=257325&st=0&p=2440963&hl=lead&fromsearch=1entry2440963 Thanks for the link! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aaronw Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I read about this a few years ago. I recall it being a reaction of the CA with lead and possibly related to moisture. I've never had an issue with it, but to be safe I use 5 min epoxy and completely coat the lead weights in epoxy just in case the moisture mentioned really is part of the problem. I figure lead sealed in epoxy will have difficultly oxydizing. It also helps to ensure the lead stays in place, I hate it when a lead weight breaks free inside a sealed model. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hawk One Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Has anyone who uses white glue to secure lead weights have them come loose over time? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pigsty Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 On 11/13/2018 at 8:12 PM, Hawk One said: Has anyone who uses white glue to secure lead weights have them come loose over time? I've not had the time to find out whether this happens, but I have heard it. I now use candle wax. It's completely inert, so far as I know, and never goes off. So long as you pour it warm rather than hot, it should do no harm to your plastic parts either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 On 3/24/2013 at 1:32 PM, B-17 guy said: I'd hold onto that ammo, getting harder and harder to find everyday, and more expensive. Yes it's became a collector's item if in the original issue box. I pulled the bullets for the cases. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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