Silhouette Portrait cutter

[KursadA]

But thats old news.

I currently use an Ioline 30" vinyl cutter and a Roland sp300 digital print/cut machine.

Great, more power to you. But the post you dismissed as "old news" is intended to inform modelers about a $155 (Amazon price) cutter. The most inexpensive cutters from the brand you've been talking about using sells for more than a thousand dollars. It is obvious to almost anyone that computerized cutters have been in use in modeling for years, it is the price and general practicality of this cutter that makes it worth reporting here. Not everyone wants or needs a 30" cutter at home, while a small $155 cutter is a reasonable purchase for a serious modeler.

Edited May 3, 2013 by KursadA

[JackMan]

That's amazing work there!

I have cut a number of masks and vinyl parts for many of my models:

You can see the masks and decals printed for the scallop paint work.

Could I ask you managed to paint the black outline along the edges of the pearl (or is it white?) scallops?

Also, were the steps you used:

A) undercoat with white/pearl

B ) Mask with Vinyl scallops

C) Paint the whole thing metallic red?

The sprockets were cut from .005" Evergreen and laminated together for the master.

How did you do the lamination? Could you outline the process?

Here are some 1/32 scale Gotha hex camo masks cut for a guy on LSP'x forum ,first a pattern is drwn on paper:

Then cut from low tack vinyl paint mask:

What steps did you use to transfer the paper drawing to vinyl? Scan & then redraw on Corel? If so, how were you able to adjust the size so that it fits on the model?

Thank you :cheers:/>/>/>

EDIT: Typo error:

Could I ask how you managed to paint the black outline along the edges of the pearl (or is it white?) scallops?

Edited May 3, 2013 by JackMan

[krow113]

Great, more power to you. But the post you dismissed as "old news" is intended to inform modelers about a $155 (Amazon price) cutter. The most inexpensive cutters from the brand you've been talking about using sells for more than a thousand dollars. It is obvious to almost anyone that computerized cutters have been in use in modeling for years, it is the price and general practicality of this cutter that makes it worthwhile. Not everyone wants or needs a 30" cutter at home, while a small $155 cutter is a reasonable purchase for a serious modeler.

I did not dismiss any post. I was talking about my experience in the sign industry. Sign shops fail on a daily basis generally there are cutters available to the motivated buyer. The cutters you are discussing are cheap. They are also limited in their capabilities and the programs used are not compatible with the more powerful graphic programs used in industrial production.My post also offers my experience not only in full production methods ,but easy simple model making applications as well.

Check the post following yours , there is someone who though about my post rather than simply replying with personal observations.

Sorry I came on here and caused you the distress you seem to feel needs to be pointed out. I hope you are able to get over it.

[KursadA]

Check the post following yours , there is someone who though about my post rather than simply replying with personal observations.

Sorry I came on here and caused you the distress you seem to feel needs to be pointed out. I hope you are able to get over it.

Oh, don't you worry. I have been on these forums for many years and have been in many an argument. New people come and go all the time. Feel free to disperse your hard-earned wisdom to anyone who may be interested in cutting masks with $5000+ cutters and $7000+ plotter/cutters; preferably in a thread that you start yourself.

[krow113]

That's amazing work there!

Could I ask you managed to paint the black outline along the edges of the pearl (or is it white?) scallops?

Also, were the steps you used:

A) undercoat with white/pearl

B ) Mask with Vinyl scallops

C) Paint the whole thing metallic red?

How did you do the lamination? Could you outline the process?

What steps did you use to transfer the paper drawing to vinyl? Scan & then redraw on Corel? If so, how were you able to adjust the size so that it fits on the model?

Thank you :cheers:/>/>

Jack :Thanks for reading my post and asking relevant questions.

The procedure for the scallop paint work goes as follows:

1) Prepare the parts into white primer.

2) Spray Testors Pearl white ,decanted from rattle can.

3) Seal (always) with clear .

4) Apply masks cut from low-tack mask, designed in Corel for the scallops.

5) Spray the Candy red.

6) Remove the masks.

7) The black pinstripe is produced using the Testors decal system ,designed at the same time as the mask file.

8) Clear with Future until it looks 3" thick.

Lamination was achieved by drawing the sprocket in Corel. Then sending it to the cutter ,which will take a pen as well as a knife , drawing it first allows the file to be produced in a manner that allows the design to be visually checked prior to committing material to production.After checking the design, .005" Evergreen plastic is put in the machine and the knife put in the holder. Back to the computor program , copy the sprocket 5-6 times and lay all of these on top of each other ,properly aligning them. This will tell the cutter to go over the design as many times as you layer the copies.Send the file to the cutter and watch it cut out the same sprocket 5-6 times , you will then be able to 'snap' out the design ,much like removing vac formed parts from the sheet.Worked well enough to get the masters cast in more than acceptable form.

For the Gotha masks . I have the model WNW's offering. I dimensioned the model parts that will be hexed, drew these basic shapes in Corel. Drew a suitably sized hex and simply filled the shapes with hex's. There are 600 on the top wing alone. Moving the hex's around to achieve an eye friendly pattern was the hardest part. This is a very involved camo scheme but well worth the effort. Having proper equipment allows me to use a pen to draw patterns first to check the file prior to committing material. Sign shops are a goldmine for modellers , ask them for their vinyl/plastic scraps as well as low tack paint mask,which I use for my production.

The computor is a tool , nothing more, investigating the skill and equipment and understanding the requirements for mask/decal production are far more important than having $10,000 equipment. Many people think they buy a computor and it will do the work for them. Skill and a good 'eye' is way more important. Cheap equipment is just that ,cheap. It wont last and will be restricted to simple shapes and files.

I have produced masks and decals for many modellers ,online and in my local IPMS chapter. Mostly with good results.I like to work on the files that are not already produced by someone else , custom artwork kills:

[RiderFan]

Wow that looks great!

I wonder if it would work with Tamiya Masking sheets?

Thanks for posting.

It does yes. All my canopy masks are cut with a slightly larger version of this cutter and I use Tamyia sheets. Once you get the settings right (which can be tricky) it works like a charm (assuming you create your pattern properly).

[krow113]

Oh, don't you worry. I have been on these forums for many years and have been in many an argument. New people come and go all the time. Feel free to disperse your hard-earned wisdom to anyone who may be interested in cutting masks with $5000+ cutters and $7000+ plotter/cutters; preferably in a thread that you start yourself.

Like I said, hopefully you can get over yourself and see the value of the experience and skill I offer here. Incomplete info , of the nature you offer, with no experience or production capabilities , add up to an incomplete offering of info and may delude the readers here of what is required for proper mask/decal production.

Actually my cutter was $9000.00 and the print/cut machine was $20,000.00 which shows that good machines are expensive and cheap machines are just cheap.Better to have the option of ordering work from someone who appreciates the skill and work required ,as masks are generally cheap , rather than spend money on a machine that will be limited in its capabilities.

[KursadA]

Like I said, hopefully you can get over yourself and see the value of the experience and skill I offer here. Incomplete info , of the nature you offer, with no experience or production capabilities , add up to an incomplete offering of info and may delude the readers here of what is required for proper mask/decal production.

Actually my cutter was $9000.00 and the print/cut machine was $20,000.00 which shows that good machines are expensive and cheap machines are just cheap.Better to have the option of ordering work from someone who appreciates the skill and work required ,as masks are generally cheap , rather than spend money on a machine that will be limited in its capabilities.

Your claim is ridiculous, and that $155 cutter can easily produce anything you posted here (notwithstanding obvious size limitations). Anyway, enjoy the thread you hijacked.

Edited May 3, 2013 by KursadA

[krow113]

Your claim is ridiculous, and that $155 cutter can easily produce anything you posted here (notwithstanding obvious size limitations). Anyway, enjoy the thread you hijacked.

Too bad you are unable to allow anything on your precious thread that is above your limited experience/production experience. The Silhoutte is a toy , not much else.

[JackMan]

Thank you for the detailed explanation, krow113. Much obliged :cheers:/>

It does yes. All my canopy masks are cut with a slightly larger version of this cutter and I use Tamyia sheets. Once you get the settings right (which can be tricky) it works like a charm (assuming you create your pattern properly).

Are you using the Cameo too? I'm becoming very interested in this machine now. As for the Tamiya sheets, Lancer512 from page 2 seems to have some not-so-nice results. Maybe the cut wasn't deep enough? What settings do you use ( I'm taking notes :D/> ). Also, you mentioned that one should create the pattern properly first. How does one go about that? I'm thinking one has to draw the pattern on some tracing paper placed on the model part first, scan that into the PC and then digitally trace it in a vector drawing program?

[RiderFan]

I'm very much looking forward to this. There are all already a couple available in the $500-800 range. Only added difficulty is you need to 3D modeling software to get cheaper too...unless of course anyone knows of a cheap program already, then please share!

Those printers are not worth the effort. I've researched the 3D printing world quite a bit, and paid for a lot of 'tests' that turned out to be total garbage. The sub $1500 printers don't have the resolution required for models. There's just way too much stepping (the ridges created by the individual layers). They might get there eventually, but the current line of cheap 3D printers can't produce a product I would be comfortable selling.

3D Printers (and indeed 2D cutters) are not quite plug-and-play yet (relative to the inkjet printer you buy at Staples). Certainly the 3D printers require a lot of setup and calibration. The 3D modelling part will be the challenge for most people. I've been doing 3D modelling work for 15 years so for me it's reasonably straight forward. But I think most people will end up having to purchase the patterns.

That all said, once 3D printing hits the main stream and can produce quality results, our hobby changes dramatically. I wonder who will be the first model company to offer an iTunes like application allowing for DRM restricted 'purchase' of model kit parts for printing.

[RiderFan]

Too bad you are unable to allow anything on your precious thread that is above your limited experience/production experience. The Silhoutte is a toy , not much else.

As long as it fits on the cutting mat, I've not found anything I couldn't produce in terms of pattern or quality. I've been selling my canopy masks for quite some time now, they're all cut with an older version of the Siluoutte, and I've had nothing but positive feedback about them. So I'm really not sure what you're getting at.

[JackMan]

Guys, c'mon....

Apologies to Mr. Lucas :P

[RiderFan]

Thank you for the detailed explanation, krow113. Much obliged :cheers:/>/>/>

Are you using the Cameo too? I'm becoming very interested in this machine now. As for the Tamiya sheets, Lancer512 from page 2 seems to have some not-so-nice results. Maybe the cut wasn't deep enough? What settings do you use ( I'm taking notes :D/>/>/> ). Also, you mentioned that one should create the pattern properly first. How does one go about that? I'm thinking one has to draw the pattern on some tracing paper placed on the model part first, scan that into the PC and then digitally trace it in a vector drawing program?

Hi. I have a Robo Cutter, which I believe became Silhouette. It's an older digital cutter that I'll likely have to replace soon as it's becoming near impossible to find replacement blades now.

If you're talking about the same image I think you're talking about, My guess is that it was because it was brush painted (?) Honestly, I've never tried brush painting with a mask before. I've only ever airbrushed and the results are brilliant. Maybe try that experiment with an airbrush and see if that works better for you.

To create my patterns for my canopy masks, I start with the old fashioned method of masking the part by hand in the traditional way. I then carefully lift that mask off, and apply it flat on a dark paper. Rinse and repeat until you have all the masks you need. Scan the paper with all your masks on it and take that image into your vector software. Trace the mask patterns with the vector tools. Then print that image, cut out the pattern and fit it back on the model. Again, rinse and repeat making the fine adjustments as needed. Once you're comfortable with what you have on paper, try cutting on actual masking sheet. Apply the cut masks to ensure that they do actually fit properly and have at it.

I say all that and it becomes apparent quickly that if you're only doing one model, with a simple canopy, that's waaaayyy to much effort. There would be no reason to go through all that. But if you're doing a really complex pattern, of if you are like me, and sell the patterns, then it makes sense to go through all that to get the right patterns.

Hope that helps and hope I've not hi-jacked this thread too much :)/>

Edited May 3, 2013 by RiderFan

[KursadA]

Guys, c'mon....

Yes, and the topic is Silhouette cutters; which is what we were talking about before a fellow member decided to grace our humble thread to demonstrate his extensive production experience by showing a few exquisitely cut, flawless examples of paper cutting workmanship. My meager skills are no match for that breathtaking assembly of intricate regular hexagons - I tried to draw some on my "computor" and decided that the situation is clearly hopeless unless I spend the next 20 years in an apprenticeship with the renowned Japanese sign cutting expert Hattori Hanzo. So I will just bow in awe and shut up now. Now that your initial feelings of awe have died down somewhat ;-) ; we could perhaps get back to Silhouette toys..er, cutters.

Edited May 3, 2013 by KursadA

[RiderFan]

Yes, and the topic is Silhouette cutters; which is what we were talking about before a fellow member decided to grace our humble thread to demonstrate his extensive production experience by showing a few exquisitely cut, flawless examples of paper cutting workmanship. My meager skills are no match for that breathtaking assembly of intricate regular hexagons - I tried to draw some on my "computor" and decided that the situation is clearly hopeless unless I spend the next 20 years in an apprenticeship with the renowned Japanese sign cutting expert Hattori Hanzo. So I will just bow in awe and shut up now. Now that your initial feelings of awe have died down somewhat ;-) ; we could perhaps get back to Silhouette toys..er, cutters.

U have much to learn, yong gwasshoppa

:)

[krow113]

As long as it fits on the cutting mat, I've not found anything I couldn't produce in terms of pattern or quality. I've been selling my canopy masks for quite some time now, they're all cut with an older version of the Siluoutte, and I've had nothing but positive feedback about them. So I'm really not sure what you're getting at.

The difference between understanding the capability's of a toy and production equipment is my point.

I'm happy to hear you can get done what you need to on this little tool , your points about the limitations of 3d printing are more along the lines of what I am getting at.

On another forum , this discussion came down the the realization that people who can sctratchbuild the pieces they require dont need a 3d printer, those who cant scratchbuild rarely have the skills needed or the funds needed to buy a 3d printer and produce work. The learning curve is what goes un-appreciated by prospective buyers ,and promoting a product without pointing out the required skill and computer requirements is incomplete info.

There is a complete , computorized Sherline mill/lathe set sitting in my LHS , not paid for , the guy who ordered it was surprised to hear that it would require some knowledge to operate , he thought it would make the parts for him.

Knowledge is good , complete knowledge is better, I dont apologise for "hijacking' this thread , I am offering more complete info rather than 1/2 the story.

If you are in Vancouver come to an IPMS meeting and we can discuss in person and you can meet some excellent modellers and show your stuff .

[krow113]

U have much to learn, yong gwasshoppa

:)/>

Agreed.

[JackMan]

Riderfan, thank you for the detailed explanation. That's why I love ARC forums. I always learn something new here :)/>

....unless I spend the next 20 years in an apprenticeship with the renowned Japanese sign cutting expert Hattori Hanzo.

You know, I actually looked that up & he exists!

http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/images/Hattori-hanzo.jpg

[RiderFan]

The difference between understanding the capability's of a toy and production equipment is my point.

I'm happy to hear you can get done what you need to on this little tool , your points about the limitations of 3d printing are more along the lines of what I am getting at.

On another forum , this discussion came down the the realization that people who can sctratchbuild the pieces they require dont need a 3d printer, those who cant scratchbuild rarely have the skills needed or the funds needed to buy a 3d printer and produce work. The learning curve is what goes un-appreciated by prospective buyers ,and promoting a product without pointing out the required skill and computer requirements is incomplete info.

There is a complete , computorized Sherline mill/lathe set sitting in my LHS , not paid for , the guy who ordered it was surprised to hear that it would require some knowledge to operate , he thought it would make the parts for him.

Knowledge is good , complete knowledge is better, I dont apologise for "hijacking' this thread , I am offering more complete info rather than 1/2 the story.

If you are in Vancouver come to an IPMS meeting and we can discuss in person and you can meet some excellent modellers and show your stuff .

No, I think the difference I was pointing out is that budget 3D Printers can't produce quality results yet, but budget digital cutters CAN produce production quality results. Again, cutting size not withstanding, I haven't found a limitation with the 'little tool' that would prevent me, or even slow me down, from producing a commercial product. I have total control over speed, depth, heck even kerf if I choose to have it. I'm not sure what else I'd need to look for in a tool that's cutting masking paper.

Digital cutters have been around a heck of a lot longer than 3D Printers and are far more mature a product. I spent 2 years as the Senior Software Architect for a robotics firm in Cloverdale and remember having to write g-code to make the digital cutter work. Digital cutters have come a long, long way and even the cheap ones produce amazing results. 3D Printers just are not there...yet. Once 3D printers have been around as long as the cutters have and have had a few generations of refinement, they'll be able to produce amazing quality at the cost of a home laser printer.

Regardless of all that, these tools are not rocket science. Anyone can learn how to use them pretty quickly. You don't need to be a 'professional' with 20 years of experience to product high quality digitally cut masks with a small desktop cutter.

Edited May 3, 2013 by RiderFan

[RiderFan]

Agreed.

I was being fictitious. I'm sure he's probably got a handle on things.

[krow113]

Riderfan, thank you for the detailed explanation. That's why I love ARC forums. I always learn something new here :)/>/>

You know, I actually looked that up & he exists!

http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/images/Hattori-hanzo.jpg

Hilarious!

[RiderFan]

Actually, something else I'll toss into this thread that is more or less on topic.

One of the things I prefer about creating and selling my own masks is that the quality is 100% within my own control. I'm a fairly OCD person and I really do hate having to leave the quality control of my decals and resin parts in the hands of other people. With my decals I'm having to trust that someone else isn't asleep at the switch and not screwing up my product (and I've had to eat the cost and throw away a lot of decal sheets over the years).

With doing my own cutting, I can control everything. If a masking set isn't to my standards, it's fixed then and there before going any further.

[krow113]

Actually, something else I'll toss into this thread that is more or less on topic.

One of the things I prefer about creating and selling my own masks is that the quality is 100% within my own control. I'm a fairly OCD person and I really do hate having to leave the quality control of my decals and resin parts in the hands of other people. With my decals I'm having to trust that someone else isn't asleep at the switch and not screwing up my product (and I've had to eat the cost and throw away a lot of decal sheets over the years).

With doing my own cutting, I can control everything. If a masking set isn't to my standards, it's fixed then and there before going any further.

The same as myself and a lot of other guys ,you started offering your personal work to others.

Only natural to progress in thinking from imagination-design-prototype-production. I looked at your fbook page, kudos for getting work done.

Like I said come to a meeting if you can, give a demo , show your stuff. A chance to actually be in the same room as people in your customer base.

Thread hopelessly hijacked ,but how much mileage does one expect from the subject?

Alternative viewpoints will be offered. As unpalatable as that may be, one cannot expect full support for every tool, model or service offered up in a thread of this type.

No worries and no offense intended.

Thank you ,Steve

[RiderFan]

Unfortunately I'm in Montreal now and likely moving to Ontario in the next couple of months. I'd love to get back to Vancouver but it's just not in the cards right now. So no Vancouver IPMS meetings for me any time soon.