Question about Model master enamels.

[billw]

What,if anything, could be used as a retarder for Testors Model master enamels? Would Mr Color Self-Leveling thinner work?

TIA.

BW

[Liberator24]

works real well for me. What are you wanting to accomplish? Big word for an Alabama boy...LOL

-Jim

[galileo1]

Retarder for MM enamels? I used to use them a lot before I switched to acrylics and I never needed a retarder. Did they change the formula somehow? Never had an issue with any enamel drying too fast. Interesting...

[RichardL]

Me neither. Never had Model Master enamels drying on the tip of my airbrush when I was using them back in the old days. In fact, these paints often remained tacky for several hours after being sprayed. Did Testors try to fix thing that are not broken like what they did to PollyScale acrylic flat clear?

[billw]

I've used Model Master enamels for a long time & I agree most of the time they have sprayed very well with no problems. But I've had problems with certain colors a few times, usually lighter colors. I sprayed some Intermediate Blue yesterday it literally dried as it hit the surface. Wasn't drying in the brush tip, but did have a very rough texture on the model. The bottle was one I'd had for a while, but had never been opened & it stired-up fine. Was using Testors thinner @ about 80% paint - 20% thinner and 18lbs air. Perhaps my thinning ratios or air presures are off... don't know.

BW

[galileo1]

I used to thinned the paint a lot more than that. Eighty percent paint may be too heavy/thick. Your pressure seems good though. Try thinning it a bit more maybe?

Edited April 1, 2013 by TOPGUN

[Janissary]

Yes, 80% paint sounds too thick to me also. 40-60 (paint-thinner) might be better. 18lbs pressure sounds fine to me. I have found Artists' Painting Medium to serve almost like a retarder:

My link 1

But, in your case, the problem might be more about your thinning ratio. Mixing/stirring the paint well also helps. Finally, I have recently come to the conclusion that the best thinner for MM enamels is their specific airbrush thinner:

My link 2

Seems like you are using this anyway but thought I would emphasize this.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Janissary

[FAR148]

Bill,

I'm wondering what kind of airbrush are you using? a sipon or gravity feed airbrush. I only ask cause siphon feed airbrush needs more PSI then a gravity feed brush. And if you are using a sipon type brush at a low PSI, it could cause the paint to have a rough texture. One could always add more thinner or increase the PSI.

Steven L

[billw]

Bill,

I'm wondering what kind of airbrush are you using? a sipon or gravity feed airbrush. I only ask cause siphon feed airbrush needs more PSI then a gravity feed brush. And if you are using a sipon type brush at a low PSI, it could cause the paint to have a rough texture. One could always add more thinner or increase the PSI.

Steven L :wave:/>

The airbrush in question was an ancient Binks Wren B siphon feed. That's why I had the air at 18lbs. Below that it just wont pull the paint up very well & clogs the tip. I know I need to upgrade to a good gravity feed brush & will be doing that in the near future. I think the guys here are right that my thinner/paint ratio was off, on top of an old airbrush.

Appreciate the help everybody.

BW

[scapilot]

Definitely the thinning ratios. No need for retarders on MM enamels, as they work great when properly thinned. If thinned properly, you can work a few inches from your subject, and the paint will not physically have the time to dry between point a and point b. In the event that you're into heavy paint sessions for initial base coats, and you find that it's a bit powdery after finishing, take some micro mesh or equivelent soft pads, and make some light buffing of the paint job, and it'll do away with that. Or I've read of others using a damp sponge, and giving the kit a bath to reduce the dust particles as well. I can personally say that between using highly thinned paints in built up layers, micro mesh buffing, and a quick wash, you can almost avoid future or any other sort of gloss coat because your surface will be level and smooth.

[Hawk10]

As noted by others, your thinner to paint ratio probably needs to be changed. I tend to start with mixture which is roughly a 50/50 mix of thinner to paint (and yes, it often needs to be adjusted one way or the other with different colors of Model Master paints). You need to experiment to find out what mixture works best for you. Using this mixture, I've been able to get some very fine lines with my old Wren and gotten the working pressure down to about 12 psi without any problems (less overspray also).

On the subject of thinners, I haven't used Testors thinners in years, because I feel they're overpriced and there are other things out there that seem to work for me just as well. I currently use DuPont 3812S Enamel Reducer. I'm down to my last gallon and it cost me $25.00 for 128 fl oz. (Vs $5.99 for a 3/4 fl oz of Testors airbrush thinner). And as strange as it may seem, I haven't had that many problems using lacquer thinner with Model Master paints(other than the smell which my wife especially doesn't like).

[billw]

Definitely the thinning ratios. No need for retarders on MM enamels, as they work great when properly thinned. If thinned properly, you can work a few inches from your subject, and the paint will not physically have the time to dry between point a and point b. In the event that you're into heavy paint sessions for initial base coats, and you find that it's a bit powdery after finishing, take some micro mesh or equivelent soft pads, and make some light buffing of the paint job, and it'll do away with that. Or I've read of others using a damp sponge, and giving the kit a bath to reduce the dust particles as well. I can personally say that between using highly thinned paints in built up layers, micro mesh buffing, and a quick wash, you can almost avoid future or any other sort of gloss coat because your surface will be level and smooth.

I'll be giving that a try for sure.

Thanks.

BW

[billw]

As noted by others, your thinner to paint ratio probably needs to be changed. I tend to start with mixture which is roughly a 50/50 mix of thinner to paint (and yes, it often needs to be adjusted one way or the other with different colors of Model Master paints). You need to experiment to find out what mixture works best for you. Using this mixture, I've been able to get some very fine lines with my old Wren and gotten the working pressure down to about 12 psi without any problems (less overspray also).

On the subject of thinners, I haven't used Testors thinners in years, because I feel they're overpriced and there are other things out there that seem to work for me just as well. I currently use DuPont 3812S Enamel Reducer. I'm down to my last gallon and it cost me $25.00 for 128 fl oz. (Vs $5.99 for a 3/4 fl oz of Testors airbrush thinner). And as strange as it may seem, I haven't had that many problems using lacquer thinner with Model Master paints(other than the smell which my wife especially doesn't like).

Thanks for the advice and a quick question. Do you know of a source for o-rings for the Wren. I've been all over the net & can't find any repair kits at all. Long out of production maybe? Had mine for almost 40 years & hate to give it up.

BW

[Hawk10]

The last place I had any luck getting parts for a Wren (and it's been a while)is an outfit known as TP Tools and Equipment. It specializes in tools and paints for folks who either do automotive restorations or build hotrods. Their web address is www.tptools.com and the phone number is 1-800-321-9260. Give them try. (must still be in business as I get a little catalog from them about every 90 days or so). HTH

Edited April 3, 2013 by Hawk10

[MarcDuhon]

i do notice that some colors require ALOT more thinning to prevent rapid drying as long as you use the model master brand thinner you wont have issue I do notie that lacquer thinners cause problems with some model master colors so I stick with the spirit based thinner

[billw]

The last place I had any luck getting parts for a Wren (and it's been a while)is an outfit known as TP Tools and Equipment. It specializes in tools and paints for folks who either do automotive restorations or build hotrods. Their web address is www.tptools.com and the phone number is 1-800-321-9260. Give them try. (must still be in business as I get a little catalog from them about every 90 days or so). HTH

Many thanks. I'll check it out.

BW

[Bails]

Janissary is right-on with Artists' Painting Medium (by Winsor & Newton at art supply stores). Add a few drops to thinned paint and get smooth(er) paint flow thru the brush as well as a smoother finish on the model. I thin EE enamels at 50-50 ratio, paint to lacquer thinner. Thinner paint better than thicker thru the air brush. Can always add more coats if needed.

Practice on blank sheet of styrene or "throw-away model" on above recommendations to get a feel for it all.

Bails

PS Artists' Painting Medium was recommended many years ago at the HyperScale site where I got the idea. rab