Hajo L. Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I started with the Italeri ACH-47A in 1/72 today (pictures will follow soon). I´d like to use this thread not only to show the progress, but to ask for tricks and information. As usual with my helo-builds doing a "live-like" crew will consume most of the time working on this helo. I read that the ACH-47 had 8 crew-members: 2 pilots, 5 gunners, one flight engineer. While I have a pretty good feeling where I should place the pilots and the gunners ;), I´m not so sure about the typical where-abouts of the FE during a combat mission. Can someone help me out? HAJO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flyingfortress Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 The FE tended to be a 'lookout' who moved around from door/gun positions as well as the ramp looking down for targets and threats. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hajo L. Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 Thanks a lot! Progress so far: Pilot has taken a seat, head will be attached soon! ;) Easy wiring of the instrument panel: Using a sheet of paper, cut intoi the same size/dimensions of the panel. Then punch some holes with a needle, and use a copper thread to simulate cables: And glued into place! Next question: White or green flight helmets for the crew, did they had any relevance in their colour? I know that on board a warship, only the captain/commander wears a white cap... Does the same apply to multi-personnel flight crews? HAJO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Next question: White or green flight helmets for the crew, did they had any relevance in their colour? I know that on board a warship, only the captain/commander wears a white cap... Does the same apply to multi-personnel flight crews? HAJO Nice work on the Go GO bird. Regarding the helmet color, based on this USAAM archive shot, I'd say you are good with either or both. Ray Any idea which bird you will be building? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hajo L. Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 I have to go with the decals that come with the kit, so I´ll choose "Easy Money", because I want a bird that´s "in country". Question: The color of the ammo-boxes. Are they green or silver? I have pictures where I have the feeling like they are silver, or is it just metal shining through a green paint? HAJO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chief Snake Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 (edited) In the photo above showing the interior you can see the metal cans for the 40mm in the center aisle. They are bare metal. The 50cal ammo cans against the wall beside the gunners are olive drab green with a big white printed advisory that listed the contents of the can and showed how the belts of ammunition should be loaded into the cans. If memory serves me correctly the 20mm cans for the wing mounted cannons were also bare metal. I double checked some pics and yes, the 20mm cans are bare metal. Chris M Edited April 14, 2013 by Chief Snake Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 (edited) Regarding colors of things, I think this photo is interesting as it shows the bulkhead on at least one of the Go Go birds was two tone chromate yellow and gray. Here's a photo of the chin armor. I assume those are chicken plates in the chin bubble? Here are a few details of the 50 cals. ramp mounted 50 cal: Finally here's a nice shot showing the general layout of weapons and ammo cans. Pics from USAAM archives. HTH Ray Edited April 14, 2013 by rotorwash Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hajo L. Posted April 15, 2013 Author Share Posted April 15, 2013 That helped A LOT! Thank you very much! By seeing the ramp: Was it open in operational use or closed as in the picture shown above? HAJO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hajo L. Posted April 17, 2013 Author Share Posted April 17, 2013 Some progress of the cockpit-area, I added armor-shields to the seats: Can someone help me with my question above? (By seeing the ramp: Was it open in operational use or closed as in the picture shown above?) HAJO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hookdriver Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 It was generally up in flight to give the gunner a greater field of fire. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hajo L. Posted April 18, 2013 Author Share Posted April 18, 2013 Hmm, would a lowered ramp not offer an even more greater field of fire? Today those helos with a ramp gunner always fly with an open ramp... But thanks for the intel! HAJO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hajo L. Posted April 18, 2013 Author Share Posted April 18, 2013 Some progress before I´m starting into a family weekend. The front office is done: Next steps will be the "back-office" with all the fun stuff (guns, ammo, gunners,...). HAJO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Longbow Mech Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Wow great job so far. This looks like a fun project that you could dump a lot of detail into. Great resources pics as well from Ray. As far as the picture with the two tone gray and primer, I know when I worked CH-47D's the sound proofing always covered up the roof of the cargo/cabin area but when we pulled the sound proofing down to do inspections it was always yellow primed from front to the back. Brock Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hajo L. Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 Some progress - I installed the 40mm ammo cans and added an ammo-belt. [/url] The belt is some old 1/87 scale Roco Minitank ammo-belt which was supposed to simulate 12,7mm in 1/87 scale... A bit out of size for this intended purpose, but looking good for 40mm! [/url] HAJO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hookdriver Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Hmm, would a lowered ramp not offer an even more greater field of fire? Today those helos with a ramp gunner always fly with an open ramp... But thanks for the intel! HAJO The D and Fs fly with the ramp down. The 240 mount is different than the 50 cal mount that they used in Vietnam. I believe that is the reason they flew with the ramp up. If the ramp was down the weapon would not be able to traverse up very much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thatguy96 Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 (edited) I imagine that as the ACH-47A was not intended as a troop transport it was felt that having the ramp up might limit the field of fire, but offer a modicum of protection to the gunner. I know the fields of fire from the wing gunners were supposed to intersect to a degree, and this was probably the case with regards to the ramp gun too, so the issue of a limited fire ARC might not have been seen as that big a deal when compared to more gunner protection. The development of the ramp gun subsystem for regular CH-47s seems to have lagged behind the development of the the forward door guns. No mention is made of the M41 in the Army Aviation Reference Data handbook I have dated 1968 for instance and its not authorized in any of the original iterations of the period TOEs for CH-47 equipped units. The issue of gunner protection might have played a part here too and there's the possibility that flying with the ramp down for rapid egress was a relatively late development with regards to the helicopter as a whole. Who wants to be the sucker to sit on that exposed ramp? To further illustrate this, while rarely operated in this fashion from the available pictures I have, the ramp mount for the CH/HH-3E had a stowed position that involved sliding the mount to the rear so that the ramp could be closed, indicating at least to me that at least initially flying with the ramp down in that case was not necessarily universal either. I believe the ramp gun mount on the CH-46 is a relatively recent development too. Edited April 26, 2013 by thatguy96 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hajo L. Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 Thanks a lot! HAJO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) Lookin' good. I think this might offer you some more inspiration. From the film collection of the USAAM. No sound, but still pretty interesting. Ray Edited April 28, 2013 by rotorwash Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hajo L. Posted April 28, 2013 Author Share Posted April 28, 2013 Thanks, I will take a closer look this evening. Another question: Looking at the pics that show gunners/crewmembers, I have the impression that FLAK-vests were NOT part of their usual dressing. Is that correct? HAJO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) Thanks, I will take a closer look this evening. Another question: Looking at the pics that show gunners/crewmembers, I have the impression that FLAK-vests were NOT part of their usual dressing. Is that correct? HAJO Hopefully someone more versed in the Go Go birds will come along to answer that. It looks to me like some are wearing chicken plates while others are not and some may be wearing FLAK-vests. My guess is it was crew preference more than anything else. I just realized you can't make the video full screen. Follow the link below to get the full screen version. Ray Edited April 28, 2013 by rotorwash Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hajo L. Posted May 1, 2013 Author Share Posted May 1, 2013 Some progress on the interiour: The 12,7mm boxes are from the Eduard-set, which unfortunately doesn´t provide the 20mm boxes. These have been scratched by me, standing here in front of the helo. The whole 20mm-box-setup is a little bit too long, but that will be hardly visible once the helo is closed. Hope you guys don´t mind. ;) A big thanks to Rotorwash for the video, but I think I saw at least some parts of that video with sound somewhere else on youtube?! Great stuff anyway, and surely an inspiration for the gunners and the things and lumps & bumps in the cabin. Like smoke-grenades, personal weapons, boxes, stuff... HAJO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hajo L. Posted May 2, 2013 Author Share Posted May 2, 2013 Boxes glued into place, also the small ducts that lead the 20mm-ammo into the stubwing. You can also see my first tries to scratch something that may represent a 20mm-ammo-belt in the peg. I used a small strip of paper and stretched sprue. I think it will look the part when I cut it into the correct length and paint it... Question: The 12.7mm and their ammunition. I have seen both kinds of feeding: Simple belt-fed and ammo-chutes. Any insights? Belt-fed: Chute-fed: HAJO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thatguy96 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 Quite easy to imagine that the feed chuting might have been seen as restrictive by some and subsequently dispensed with. Same thing happened with the feed chuting on the M23 for the UH-1. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hajo L. Posted May 3, 2013 Author Share Posted May 3, 2013 So, do I unserstand correctly, you think that the more simple ammo-belts would have been used later on after the chutes proved unreliable? (sorry, non-native english-speaking is kicking in here... ;) ) HAJO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 So, do I unserstand correctly, you think that the more simple ammo-belts would have been used later on after the chutes proved unreliable? (sorry, non-native english-speaking is kicking in here... ;)/> ) HAJO It's not so much that chutes are unreliable as it is that they are a pain in the backside to reload and tend to limit flexibility and field of fire. I think the chutes seemed like a good idea when the system was being tested stateside but were later abandoned in country in favor of quicker reload times and possibly increased field of fire. Ray Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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