ALF18 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Hello dear reader You may recall my last disastrous attempt to do a NMF CF-104 with WinterValley decals. I totally blew the black undercoat, destroying the skin and panel lines, and also had a heck of a time with the resin cockpit. I made it all into a learning experience. So here I am, doing a Homer Simpson impression: hitting my head against the wall a second time, hoping naively that it won't hurt this time. I bought another Hasegawa kit while I was massacring the other one, as well as the True Details resin cockpit set. I mentioned lessons learned? Oh right. One thing I did the first time was follow all of the resin instructions to the letter. Not going to happen this time. By chopping out the middle portion of the cockpit tub (where the seat goes), I cause several problems. One was the walls that were too thick, so with the floor missing, as I hacked away, I managed to break the cross-pieces on the resin, and ended up gluing the sidewalls and consoles to each side, and faking the middle part. Not good. This time, I wanted to see why there was a fit problem on the tub. Was it too wide to start with? Measuring the kit and resin parts (seen here with resin on the left), I found that the rear portion of the consoles was 3.6 cm wide, and the front portion was 3.0 cm wide (where the throttle quadrant is). I confirmed this by holding the kit and resin parts together in mirror-image fashion, and the width was identical. So far so good. So that means the problem is in the huge amount of resin that is bulked up along the sides and bottom of the tub. Time to break out the surgical tools - an update tomorrow on how that goes. Here is a small start, showing just how thick it all is. ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 This is going way better than the first one. I was able to chop off sufficient resin from the tub outsides to dry fit it very nicely into the fuselage. It will fit nicely. Painting time for the cockpit. I used Modelmaster acryl light ghost grey for the main colour, with Tamiya acrylic black and a silver pen for the switches and knobs, followed by some red and yellow touches here and there. I am not going for extreme cockpit accuracy; simply want it to look plausible. I will work on the seat later as things slow down with the main paint job; that will get more attention when it comes to correct colours. The fuselage is already coming together. Fit is good. This time, no problems with sandwiching of the cockpit. Those who know the resin set will notice that I did not use the resin rear upper deck. It does have a bit more detail than the kit, but it doesn't show much, and I'm sure it was the cause of many of my fit problems the first time I tried this. Here is the seat and other bits, ready for detailing when I get time. Thanks for looking! ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
phantom Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Looking better then the first one all ready. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Neo Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 DAng hes got the windowmaker addiction going on !! Good start Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted May 1, 2013 Author Share Posted May 1, 2013 Looking better then the first one all ready. Thanks! Good thing I'm not of a different gender... I might take that the wrong way! ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted May 1, 2013 Author Share Posted May 1, 2013 DAng hes got the windowmaker addiction going on !! Good start Neo! Windowmaker? Kind of similar to a Widowmaker, only that kind punches through buildings and makes windows when it crashes? Thanks dude! I love the "Aluminum Death Tube"... ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Neo Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 (edited) Neo! Windowmaker? :thumbsup:/>/> Kind of similar to a Widowmaker, only that kind punches through buildings and makes windows when it crashes? :rolleyes:/>/> Thanks dude! I love the "Aluminum Death Tube"... ALF LOL oh come on you gona laugh at me for an extra "n" in a word :dontknow:/> Edited May 1, 2013 by Neo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigasshammm Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Standard Makes me chuckle And then, well... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted May 1, 2013 Author Share Posted May 1, 2013 LOL oh come on you gona laugh at me for an extra "n" in a word :dontknow:/>/> Sorry dude... I guess I'm just afraid I'll screw this one up like the last one, and I'm taking it out on my friends! Not good Karma, is it? Thanks Bigassham! That's the motivation I need. I pick the third image... ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 (edited) You may recall my last disastrous attempt to do a NMF CF-104 with WinterValley decals. I totally blew the black undercoat, destroying the skin and panel lines, and also had a heck of a time with the resin cockpit. I made it all into a learning experience. So here I am, doing a Homer Simpson impression: hitting my head against the wall a second time, hoping naively that it won't hurt this time. ALF Dan, I checked out your other build and I have a few suggestions to help avoid another paint failure. First of all, can you decant the Krylon and spray with an airbrush instead of the rattle can? The Krylon straight out of the can is too thick, which destroys panel line and rivet detail, so after decanting the paint (and letting it "de-gas"), I add some Tamiya lacquer thinner (about 20%) to replace the propellants and thin it out enough so that it sprays really fine. In sort of chronological order, this is what I do. - Sand the plastic with 1500-2000 grit sandpaper first. Metallic finishes show every single tiny flaw, so you need as smooth a finish as possible. - Using the decanted Krylon gloss black (as above), spray a thin but still wet coat. If it starts to spray a bit pebbly, spray more paint or thin the paint some more. The finish must be fully wet to be smooth. - Let it dry for THREE days. It will be sort of dry to the touch after only and hour or too, but it must fully cure some more before you can work with it. This is when you'll find your first putty and assembly flaws. - Fix the flaws, then re-sand the entire model, again with 1500- 200 grit sandpaper. Wipe all the dust off and then blow plain air from your airbrush to get all the dust off. - Re-spray the Krylon, again in wet thin coats. Remember, you aren't really painting the model black per se, but creating a primer surface for the Alclad to bond to, so this finish does not have to be thick at all. - After 3 more days drying, you can spray the Alclad as required, but don't let the Alclad pool on the Krylon or it can craze the finish. Many thin coats of Alclad are best. - Let the Alclad dry for at least 24 hours, before masking and re-spraying more Alclad. Also, try not to handle the Krylon or Alclad with your bare (and greasy) fingers too much. Use rubber gloves and/or micro fiber cloths when you handle the model. Once the paint has dried for a few weeks, you can use your hands. If you follow the above guidelines, you can get a finish as smooth as real metal. Cheers, Chuck Edited May 1, 2013 by chuck540z3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted May 1, 2013 Author Share Posted May 1, 2013 Dan, I checked out your other build and I have a few suggestions to help avoid another paint failure. First of all, can you decant the Krylon and spray with an airbrush instead of the rattle can? The Krylon straight out of the can is too thick, which destroys panel line and rivet detail, so after decanting the paint (and letting it "de-gas"), I add some Tamiya lacquer thinner (about 20%) to replace the propellants and thin it out enough so that it sprays really fine. In sort of chronological order, this is what I do. - Sand the plastic with 1500-2000 grit sandpaper first. Metallic finishes show every single tiny flaw, so you need as smooth a finish as possible. - Using the decanted Krylon gloss black (as above), spray a thin but still wet coat. If it starts to spray a bit pebbly, spray more paint or thin the paint some more. The finish must be fully wet to be smooth. - Let it dry for THREE days. It will be sort of dry to the touch after only and hour or too, but it must fully cure some more before you can work with it. This is when you'll find your first putty and assembly flaws. - Fix the flaws, then re-sand the entire model, again with 1500- 200 grit sandpaper. Wipe all the dust off and then blow plain air from your airbrush to get all the dust off. - Re-spray the Krylon, again in wet thin coats. Remember, you aren't really painting the model black per se, but creating a primer surface for the Alclad to bond to, so this finish does not have to be thick at all. - After 3 more days drying, you can spray the Alclad as required, but don't let the Alclad pool on the Krylon or it can craze the finish. Many thin coats of Alclad are best. - Let the Alclad dry for at least 24 hours, before masking and re-spraying more Alclad. Also, try not to handle the Krylon or Alclad with your bare (and greasy) fingers too much. Use rubber gloves and/or micro fiber cloths when you handle the model. Once the paint has dried for a few weeks, you can use your hands. If you follow the above guidelines, you can get a finish as smooth as this (I'll take this pic down after you've seen it). Cheers, Chuck Chuck Thanks so much for the step-by-step instructions. The last fiasco was mostly due to my spraying direct from the rattle can, and doing it in sub-zero temperatures (the can was chilled to about 4 or 5 Celsius, and when I opened the garage door, the temp went to about -10 as I was spraying. So the too-thick paint went on in clumps and pebbled; a total disaster! I will decant this time. I'll also use your thinning formula (20%), and will try the drying/sanding/handling tips as well. Have you ever heard of using a coat of Future between the Krylon and the Alclad? I read this somewhere, yet it seems counterintuitive to use a water-based gloss coat between the base and the Alclad. You can take down the pic of that beautiful Mustang - I saved it already. ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 I should have mentioned that Tamiya lacquer thinner is one of the best discoveries I've made in modeling recently. It will thin almost anything, but it won't attack the plastic as long as you don't let it pool on the plastic too long. I use it to smooth Tamiya putty all the time and by the smell, it seems like the same stuff as in the putty. I know some guys who even use it to thin Tamiya ACRYLIC paint, so it is very universal. Regular lacquer thinner works too, but it can be tough on the plastic and other paint if you're not careful. To summarize, think of these basic principles: Smooth- You need a smooth finish to begin with for all steps. Thin- both base Krylon coat and Alclad should be super thin- just enough to cover. Let it DRY! You can't rush a BMF and you can't let the paints dry enough before working with them. Good luck!- and if you need any more info, just drop me an email or PM. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AX 365 Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 Nice work on the cockpit ALF. And as Chuck said, slow and steady wins the race. I know you're gonna pull this one off quite nicely. I look forward to seeing it in person, along with the rest of the ALF Air Force. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dmthamade Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Great to see how you're overcoming the fit difficulties. I have the same pit and kit, the step by step will help when/if i tackle this one. DON Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted May 13, 2013 Author Share Posted May 13, 2013 Great to see how you're overcoming the fit difficulties. I have the same pit and kit, the step by step will help when/if i tackle this one. DON Thanks Don. I am slowing down slightly on this one - I have final exams to mark, and also a commission build to do urgently. It's a CF-18 demo bird from 2003; the pilot (Dano) wants one in-flight in 1/48, before he moves in a couple months. This one is looking good, though. Without my initial experience with the resin tub, I would never have done it so well this time. When you tackle yours, don't hesitate to ask if you have questions. ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 Finally, at long last, some progress. I painted the wing undersides and tops. White Tamiya primer for the tops, and for the tailplane. Here it is in the "paint shop", with my nearly-completed commission build of the 2003 CF-18 demo from 433 Squadron. Very hard to get a good overall glossy black, even with decanted spray paint thinned with lacquer thinner. I found that it was essential to let the thing dry for more than a week between coats, especially given the soggy humid and chilly "spring" we've been having... I painted the first black coats on a Saturday, waited 4 days, then tried another misting, but had some bubble up on me. Will have to sand later. I then waited 2 weeks to do another coat, and another week before spraying any Alclad. ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 A small self-hijack... What was slowing me down was this commission build. Here is the happy customer - Dano Bélanger, the demo pilot from 2003. He is holding his helmet from 10 years ago, which he created himself with a little help, in the same kind of motif as his airplane. He was very happy to receive his jet. Now, I can concentrate on this build,especially given that a couple ARCers (Neo and AX_365) are coming for the airshow, and they may see this thing up close and personal. I had better have something to show for it! From a distance, the first coat of Polished Aluminum looks OK. On closer inspection, though, you can see where the black undercoat has bubbled up a bit. Will need to be sanded. Also, you can see the different colours of Alclad lined up behind it; trying to figure out what to use for the aft end darkened areas. I have quite a while to figure that out, though, given that I should wait at least 3 to 4 days before masking and spraying another colour of Alclad. So I sanded down some areas, which will need to be resprayed. Argh. All is zen, though... Dear old Dad is peering down from his CF-104 cockpit in heaven, telling me to relax and enjoy the build. On this 10th Fathers' Day since his passing, his steadying influence is still there. ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigasshammm Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Where's the like button? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Neo Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Your getting there. Fathers day story was very touching i must say. So your telling me i might see Alf man cave !!! So cool ill bring a bone for Max Quote Link to post Share on other sites
phantom Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Keep at it!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Neo Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Hey ALF seing your pic of Dano makes me wonder , do you still have you Cf-18 helmet? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dmthamade Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Looking good, Alf!! Quick question, were the Canadian 104s kept shiny clean or did they ever have a dull/satin NMF finish? Don Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 Where's the like button? I often search for it myself on ARC! Your getting there. Fathers day story was very touching i must say. So your telling me i might see Alf man cave !!! So cool ill bring a bone for Max Max is in full agreement; just make it a doggie biscuit (size small). Saturday night is probably the best timing, right before supper... Looking forward to it! ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 Keep at it!!! Thx Phantom. Frustration with the paint prep is morphing into cautious optimism! ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 Looking good, Alf!! Quick question, were the Canadian 104s kept shiny clean or did they ever have a dull/satin NMF finish? Don Don They were quite shiny, especially at the beginning. Here are some shots from the 1960s, which is the era I am trying to build: Notice how the ground reflects off the belly of tail number 900 here? ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.