Spacecraft and rocket models

[davegee1]

Hi all: I am a new member, or at least if I did sign up some time ago, this is my first post. I have been building rockets and spacecraft models since I was a kid, and that is a LONG time ago now! I like talking with other modelers about their ideas, and mine, and techniques we can all benefit from in our common interest. Most of the things I build, or have built, are scratchbuilt rockets and spacecraft. The past 10 years or so I have been doing large RC WWII fighters. I am currently working on a 1:1 scale DMSP Block I satellite, in other words, an early spy satellite we launched during the Cold War period of the 1960s. It will become part of a permanent exhibit in the NASM in Washington, D.C. next year.

I'd be happy to chat with any modelers out there. Let me know what you are building, too!

Davegee

[PNW_Modeler]

Welcome Davegee,

Are you talking about scale plastic models of rockets? I am an avid amateur rocketeer. I design and fly and occasionally sell my own designs. Currently I am building a 1:6th scale Black Brandt II that will fly on G motors

Edited April 30, 2013 by PNW_Modeler

[K2Pete]

Davegee ... I just read your other post on ARC and realized I've been wanting to ask you about your BIG Rover for a few months now ... the one exhibited at the Seattle museum with your BIG LM. Your build pix on the Yahoo Group, a few years ago, really interested me!

What did you use for the 'tires' on your LRV? What kind of wire mesh ...

A hearty welcome to ARC. We'd love to see some pix of your builds.

Pete

[davegee1]

Welcome Davegee,

Are you talking about scale plastic models of rockets? I am an avid amateur rocketeer. I design and fly and occasionally sell my own designs. Currently I am building a 1:6th scale Black Brandt II that will fly on G motors

Hi K2Pete: I used to do a lot of high power rocketry many years ago, flying out near Hartsel, Colorado. I haven't done anything along those lines for a long time, though. My models are large, scratchbuilt ones, made of many materials, but not plastic as in the sense of modifying a plastic kit or something like that. I did some scale stuff, a 1/34 scale Saturn IB, Saturn V, and Mercury Restone rockets, although the Saturn V never flew. The past 10 years I have been working more on 1/6 scale WWII rc fighters and am also engaged in making a full sized replica of a spy satellite that is about 23" in diameter and 21" tall, covered with solar panels. This will be a part of an exhibit at the NASM next year.

Can you post a pic of your Black Brant?

davegee

[davegee1]

Davegee ... I just read your other post on ARC and realized I've been wanting to ask you about your BIG Rover for a few months now ... the one exhibited at the Seattle museum with your BIG LM. Your build pix on the Yahoo Group, a few years ago, really interested me!

What did you use for the 'tires' on your LRV? What kind of wire mesh ...

A hearty welcome to ARC. We'd love to see some pix of your builds.

Pete

Hi Pete: The rover wheels were very complicated, a real challenge. I drew up plans for the wheels themselves and had a machinist fabricate them for me out of aluminum. They were in two parts, an inner half, and an outer half. I fabricated a "donut" of clear plastic the size of the tires. It was cut in half, sort of like a bagel. I made the "bumper stop" rings that were glued on a ring that went inside the clear tire pieces. These are the sections you can see through the tire mesh, to keep real big rock impacts from damaging the wheels and tires. I then glued the clear tire sections together, and covered the tire with a thin fabric mesh. This made the clear tire piece look invisible, and just like a formed mesh tire, like the real ones. I then added a tread pattern, making rivet marks onto the styrene treads with a punch. They were then glued on to the aluminum wheels. A lot of work, but the final result was ok with me. It would be easier to show you pictures, but I don't think I have any from back then. This was the age of pre-computer, pre-digital, pre-cellphone, etc.!

davegee

[davegee1]

Davegee ... I just read your other post on ARC and realized I've been wanting to ask you about your BIG Rover for a few months now ... the one exhibited at the Seattle museum with your BIG LM. Your build pix on the Yahoo Group, a few years ago, really interested me!

What did you use for the 'tires' on your LRV? What kind of wire mesh ...

A hearty welcome to ARC. We'd love to see some pix of your builds.

Pete

Hi Pete: The rover wheels were very complicated, a real challenge. I drew up plans for the wheels themselves and had a machinist fabricate them for me out of aluminum. They were in two parts, an inner half, and an outer half. I fabricated a "donut" of clear plastic the size of the tires. It was cut in half, sort of like a bagel. I made the "bumper stop" rings that were glued on a ring that went inside the clear tire pieces. These are the sections you can see through the tire mesh, to keep real big rock impacts from damaging the wheels and tires. I then glued the clear tire sections together, and covered the tire with a thin fabric mesh. This made the clear tire piece look invisible, and just like a formed mesh tire, like the real ones. I then added a tread pattern, making rivet marks onto the styrene treads with a punch. They were then glued on to the aluminum wheels. A lot of work, but the final result was ok with me. It would be easier to show you pictures, but I don't think I have any from back then. This was the age of pre-computer, pre-digital, pre-cellphone, etc.!

davegee

[davegee1]

Hi All: I haven't figured out yet how to post pictures on this forum. Any help?

thanks,

davegee

[K2Pete]

Thanx Dave ... I had no idea those wheels took that much thought! Thanx! I did take a look at your posted pix on the Yahoo Groups Photo section ...

Hi All: I haven't figured out yet how to post pictures on this forum. Any help?

thanks,

davegee

To post pix, you have to store them off your computer. Most of us use Photobucket ( http://photobucket.com/ )

You have to join, then upload your images to Photobucket. This will take a few minutes ... then you'll see thumbnails of your images and on the right side of the 'page', you'll see 3 choices then use the IMG codes that says it's for forums and boards, done.

Back here on ARC you'll have to use the PREVIEW function before you post and you should see your images. Then simply post your posting.

Any more questions ... just ask away!

Pete

[davegee1]

Thanx Dave ... I had no idea those wheels took that much thought! Thanx! I did take a look at your posted pix on the Yahoo Groups Photo section ...

To post pix, you have to store them off your computer. Most of us use Photobucket ( http://photobucket.com/ )

You have to join, then upload your images to Photobucket. This will take a few minutes ... then you'll see thumbnails of your images and on the right side of the 'page', you'll see 3 choices then use the IMG codes that says it's for forums and boards, done.

Back here on ARC you'll have to use the PREVIEW function before you post and you should see your images. Then simply post your posting.

Any more questions ... just ask away!

Pete

Thanks, Pete. I think I did this on another forum some time ago. I'll give it a try.

Thanks!

Dave

[davegee1]

Thanks, Pete. I think I did this on another forum some time ago. I'll give it a try.

Thanks!

Dave

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Here is a test of uploading an image from Photobucket. This is a picture of the 1/6 scale Apollo 17 LRV that I built around 1989. I had to fix some items on it when I overhauled the LM before putting it back on display at the Seattle Museum of Flight in 2010.

davegee

Edited May 1, 2013 by davegee1

[davegee1]

Thanks,

Dave

Edited May 1, 2013 by davegee1

[K2Pete]

Dave

You have to select the IMG code ( double click on it ) and then Copy it ... come back here to ARC and Paste it in your posting ... it should work. This is the easy part.

Pete

I just tried it and it does work. Make sure you've clicked on the image you want to post, then go to the right side and click on the IMG coding, Copy that and Paste it over here!

It should work ...

Pete

Edited May 2, 2013 by K2Pete

[davegee1]

Hi Pete: tried all that, no joy. I'll continue to work on it a little more. Probably operator error, although I didn't have this much trouble doing the Photobucket on a different forum a few years ago. Not sure why it won't work for me now...

dave

[K2Pete]

I see your Rover image, it's back a couple of posts, but 'by-george', I think you've got it!

And the Rover model looks superb!

And take a look thru all the posts here on the Real Space forum, Dave, you'll see what we're all working on ... some simply terrific models have been completed and are in-the-works.

Pete

[crackerjazz]

Hi, davegee1, man that is a very "powerful" model!!!! Utterly stunning 1/6 rover!!!! I want to see the big LM too! I'm new as well but welcome aboard!

1. When you "View" your image in Photobucket, on the lower right hand side you will see "Links to share this photo"

a. Email and IM

b. Direct

c. HTML

d. IMG

2. Choose the "Direct". When you click on the link box it will say "Copied"

3. On your post/reply, click on "Insert Image"

4. You will see "http://" highlighted in the box. Just right click on it and hit Paste.

5. Hit "Insert Image". Your image should now show up on your post.

[davegee1]

Hi, davegee1, man that is a very "powerful" model!!!! Utterly stunning 1/6 rover!!!! I want to see the big LM too! I'm new as well but welcome aboard!

1. When you "View" your image in Photobucket, on the lower right hand side you will see "Links to share this photo"

a. Email and IM

b. Direct

c. HTML

d. IMG

2. Choose the "Direct". When you click on the link box it will say "Copied"

3. On your post/reply, click on "Insert Image"

4. You will see "http://" highlighted in the box. Just right click on it and hit Paste.

5. Hit "Insert Image". Your image should now show up on your post.

OK, here goes!

Hey, it worked! I had not tried using the "direct" entry before. Anyway, this is an interior shot of the 1/6 scale LM Challenger. This, being a two-year project and probably over 2500 hours into it, the details are too numerous to mention here. But just a few, scale lighting throughout the cabin, including the circuit breaker panels that were on each side of the astronauts. Alarm buttons on the control panel that light up and sound, the abort stage button that turns on a floodlight inside the ascent engine bell to demonstrate how it worked, and two blue lunar surface sensor lights that came on when pressure was applied to one of the probes on the three pads that had them. I can upload more if anyone is interested.

Thanks for the tip on uploading to this forum. I had used a similar thing before to upload from photobucket, but it was different than what this takes to upload the pics.

davegee

Edited May 2, 2013 by davegee1

[davegee1]

I see your Rover image, it's back a couple of posts, but 'by-george', I think you've got it!

And the Rover model looks superb! :thumbsup:/>

And take a look thru all the posts here on the Real Space forum, Dave, you'll see what we're all working on ... some simply terrific models have been completed and are in-the-works.

Pete

Hi Pete: I think I finally know how to work uploading pics. Maybe not exactly where I want them, but I'll get better! Nice rover you have, what kit is that, what scale?

davegee

[crackerjazz]

Do post more pics, please! I have to say it though, some builds really inspire - but some builds just do exactly the opposite - they make you wanna give up.

[davegee1]

:jaw-dropping:/>/>/>/> :jaw-dropping:/>/>/>/> :jaw-dropping:/>/>/>/> Do post more pics, please! I have to say it though, some builds really inspire - but some builds just do exactly the opposite - they make you wanna give up.

Hi Crackerjazz: I would be happy to post a few more, but please, DON'T GIVE UP!! You may surprise yourself as to what hidden talents you have in modeling! I am amazed at the magnificent talents others possess in modeling, and if anything, try harder when I see something particularly beautiful or accurate.

This is Challenger prior to shipping to Seattle Museum of Flight in 2010. Besides repairing parts that had broken or fallen off over the years, I was fortunate in replacing some of the gold foil with actual Kapton film as used on the real thing. I was given a small supply of various pieces from a friend. Note the dark Kapton on bottom of stage, and black panels that are Inconel, similar to foil, but very heat resistant. If you look closely, you will see a little red LED in each of the RCS thrusters on the ascent stage. At one time, I had a control box that could be hooked up to the LM to demonstrate several functions. One of these was a small computer that sequenced the proper LEDs to "fire" when the control sticks were moved. I had two sticks, just as on the real thing, a translational controller and an attitude controller. Other switches turned on various external lights like the strobe on the ascent stage nose, moveable S-Band and High Gain antennas, etc. Unfortunately, somehow over the years the box was lost by the museum, and it would have been too much work to figure out how I did it in the first place to get them going again!

a closeup of a Hasselblad camera used on the surface, this one by astronaut Schmitt.

Edited May 2, 2013 by davegee1

[davegee1]

Here is my latest project, a 1:1 scale DMSP Block I satellite model for the NASM for an exhibit next year. It doesn't look like much now, but it will shape up in time. The size is 23" diameter, and 21" tall. This was one of the first weather satellites and very important as a building block for more advanced satellites we have today. This one had a key support role in the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962, where we almost went to WWIII with the Soviets!

A drawing of what it looked like. It was a super secret project only declassified about 15 years ago.

The basic tube that the outer structure will be added upon. The model will be spinning on a stand to simulate what it did in space, photographing the earth each time its lens rotated downward at 12rpm.

[johnbuck]

Hi Dave

What an extraordinary piece(s) of work....superb..... 2" to the ft. ....wow ! What a pity the LEDS are no longer working. Did you have access to the Grumman / NASA drawings archives for the detailing ? How does it work with you professionals ? How co-operativeare are such sources ? Accurate info has always been a problem for us despite the generosity of NASA and the internet, for example, on our LM builds myself and crackerjazz have been unable to locate details of the mounting ring for the ascent engine, any suggestion ?. Presumably your LM is very multi media..but .mainly ...?? Cores & overlays principally ? Do please keep posting your pics. I know we would all appreciate it very much.

All the best

John

Edited May 2, 2013 by johnbuck

[K2Pete]

Good to see your images Dave!

My little LRV was the EVA models 1/32 resin kit ( I deleted the 2 pix 'cuz I didn't want to hijack your thread )

And you have to take a look at both 'crackerjazz's' and 'johnbuck's' LM threads ... both inspirational and intimidating ... and for lotsa detail 'spaceman's' Shuttle MLP thread ...

There's lotsa talent, skill and experience on display here!

Pete

[davegee1]

Good to see your images Dave!

My little LRV was the EVA models 1/32 resin kit ( I deleted the 2 pix 'cuz I didn't want to hijack your thread )

And you have to take a look at both 'crackerjazz's' and 'johnbuck's' LM threads ... both inspirational and intimidating ... and for lotsa detail 'spaceman's' Shuttle MLP thread ...

There's lotsa talent, skill and experience on display here!

Pete

Not at all, Pete! I enjoyed seeing the pics of the 1/32 scale rover model. I did an earlier 1/16 scale model for a previous project of Apollo 15 spacecraft, but as you get smaller in scale, you have to sacrifice at least some of the detail that something like 1/6 or bigger affords.

davegee

[davegee1]

Hi Dave

What an extraordinary piece(s) of work....superb..... 2" to the ft. ....wow ! What a pity the LEDS are no longer working. Did you have access to the Grumman / NASA drawings archives for the detailing ? How does it work with you professionals ? How co-operativeare are such sources ? Accurate info has always been a problem for us despite the generosity of NASA and the internet, for example, on our LM builds myself and crackerjazz have been unable to locate details of the mounting ring for the ascent engine, any suggestion ?. Presumably your LM is very multi media..but .mainly ...?? Cores & overlays principally ? Do please keep posting your pics. I know we would all appreciate it very much.

All the best

John

Hi John: thanks so much for your comments. This model was done between 1987-89, and back then there was no internet, home computers, cell phones, or any of that stuff we take for granted today. I had to get my info through long distance phone calls, snail mail, libraries, and personal visits to facilities to do this. I was lucky to be able to see some training equipment up close and personal, and that really helped out. I assembled the parts of the LM pretty much the same way that they built the real thing, and the same way that I see others doing great model replicas of the LM. Although I fabricated a ring for the ascent stage engine, I didn't really make it to scale as it was hidden under scale parts and foil or kapton where it wouldn't be seen.

I was lucky to come across an engineer at KSC who helped me very much with my 1/34 scale Saturn V model. He provided me with about 100 full sized drawings of the LUT (Launch Umbilical Tower) that would have been clearly impossible to do without them. I had to take a few scale liberties with it being designed to be taken apart and put back together in the field, as I was planning on flying the Saturn (one time only) back in 1994 for the 25th anniversary of the Apollo 11 mission. Due to technical reasons mostly due to getting the proper motors built for our gimbablled guidance system idea) I decided to pull the plug when it was obvious we wouldn't be ready in time. At that point, I decided not to try and fly it, as my goal for launching it at KSC had come and gone, and I lost interest in flying it. Fortunately, the NASM was very interested in it, and it has been on permanent display since 1995.

collage of photos showing swingarms on Saturn V and LUT.

Closeup of Swingarm #1 in place. These swingarms were motorized to retract right at launch as the real one did.

Launch of 1/34 scale Saturn 1B Apollo 7. This rocket had two working stages and an escape tower launched by a computer inside to time the events. The second stage had clear, pop-out fins that helped guide it. It also had a computer inside that took several readings per second of altitude, acceleration, and velocity obtained during the flight. All parts were recovered with little damage and the model was then installed in the San Diego Air and Space Museum in 1992. The larger Saturn V model would have been a follow on to this one, being the same scale and a lot of the same sophistication of this model and then some.

davegee

Edited May 8, 2013 by davegee1

[stevenichols]

Hello Dave, nice to see you posting your builds here as I have been a fan for years.