RedStar Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 After extensive search to find decals for my nearly complete 1:48 MiG-17F (Hobbyboss Kit), I found an interesting set of decals from Print Scale in Ukraine. It features a handful of Soviet/Russian subjects, one of which is a standard NMF MiG-17F, and I quote: "The participant intrusion into Czechoslovakia in 1968." The aircraft features the typical twin red bands commonly photographed on Soviet MiG-21S's that participated in putting down the Czech uprising. The number is a non-standard blue with white outline four digit code. I had no reason to doubt the veracity of the markings (they were from the Ukraine!), until a Google image search turned up several photos of blue 1611 on the airshow circuit: So now I'm wondering, was this a real aircraft? Did MiG-17Fs participate in the Soviet incursion into Czechoslovakia in 1968? Or are the markings just spurious airshow markings? As I've noted before, there is a dearth of decals covering Soviet numbering and markings for the MiG-17 or any of it's early NMF bretheren... Any help is appreciated! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Not a chance. Soviet Frontal Aviation fighters in 1968 did not have four digit bort numbers. Now, that said, I know that even as I write this someone is posting a photo to prove me wrong, but in general, after the mid-1950s VVS/FA fighters had two digit bort numbers. Blue borts were almost exclusively used by the PVO, not Frontal Aviation, and the PVO didn't participate in the invasion of Czechoslovakia. I've never seen a single photo of a MiG-17 being used in the invasion, since by then it was an advanced trainer, not a front line fighter in the VVS. If the decal bort number looks like that one, it's 100% fiction. The Soviets didn't use numbers that looked like Helvetica. My take: 100% fake. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Matt Walker Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Why not build it as a current-day Warbird?? Just like the pic. M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RedStar Posted May 21, 2013 Author Share Posted May 21, 2013 Indeed - all factors I had considered, and that had me extremely skeptical of the scheme. I knew that some MiG-17 units had four digit Bort numbers, but wasn't sure when the practice went away. As in the later day, anything frontline was two digit with the only longer numbers being three digit on training aircraft. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RedStar Posted May 21, 2013 Author Share Posted May 21, 2013 Why not build it as a current-day Warbird?? Just like the pic. M Because, for pretty much everything in my collection, I tend to have active, front-line birds in the prime of their career, I'm just not into airshow schemes or similar. Yes, in the case of the MiG-17, that will make for some more boring markings, but that's okay, as I don't necessarily want pretty, I want the "real thing." Darn Soviets and their boring markings. Too bad they didn't have flashy markings like we did back in those days! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andzin Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) So now I'm wondering, was this a real aircraft? Did MiG-17Fs participate in the Soviet incursion into Czechoslovakia in 1968? Or are the markings just spurious airshow markings? As I've noted before, there is a dearth of decals covering Soviet numbering and markings for the MiG-17 or any of it's early NMF bretheren... Any help is appreciated! Marking of that plane is airshow markings. She's not even original MiG-17F, she's Lim-5, serial number 1C1611, originally red 1611. If You want camouflaged MiG-17/Lim-5 Youy have o choice - Egypt, Syria, Poland, Vietnam ... and others me think :-) Edited May 21, 2013 by Andzin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F4DPhantomII Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 So the Print Scale sheet is of a Airshow bird? http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/newkitnews/takom.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andzin Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 So the Print Scale sheet is of a Airshow bird? http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/newkitnews/takom.html I know the one and only photo of MiG-17 with stripes from Czechoslovak'68 invasion - bort number 88 (blue), but she's not MiG-17F but MiG-17 (she's part of Hi-Decal Line sheet). Photo of "1611" from her active service you can find here (look at post #37): http://lotnictwo.net.pl/10-lotnictwo_wojskowe/64-spis_statkow_powietrznych_wojska_polskiego/21626-dyskusja_o_samolocie_mig_17_a-2.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RedStar Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 Not looking for camouflage, just a straight MiG-17F in Soviet service. I've reviewed my books at length, and it turns out there's scant few photos - at least in those publications of MiG-17Fs in Soviet service, but plenty of MiG-17s - makes me wish Hobbyboss did that variant... Anyone have any insight on the Mark I Guide: http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/MKD48005 Looks like it has three Soviet subjects - Red 21 (which is a P), Red 41 and Blue 34 - would love to know what Red 41 and Blue 34 are, as I'd go ahead and buy the set if one of those was a MiG-17F. While we're at it, anyone have any MiG-15bis decals in 1:48? Nothing I can find matches any Soviet numbering for those either! If I weren't so adamant about doing Soviet examples this would be a LOT easier! Big decal gap for the decal makers - are you listening? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Floggerman Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 While we're at it, anyone have any MiG-15bis decals in 1:48? Nothing I can find matches any Soviet numbering for those either! http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/HD48009 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 The invasion stripes were wider and had no white outline. Hungarian MiG-15bis had invasion stripes. Russians used mainly the early MiG-17 with small airbrakes and not the F version with the big airbrake as well as the later radar nosed PF. Good luck with your search but it is not going to be an easy one. Still a lot of Russian publications of today publish fairly good historic articles of the 50-60-70's with some excellent photos, the problem is the wealth of information and to find the one particular that you are looking for is not easy. Maybe some Russian readers can help here. I have the 4+ publication, will have a look for it today and if you still need information from it, will be able to help. As far as I know the 48th scale version of the book (it has the decal inside and was published in both 48th and 72nd scale) is out of print, but you never know where it turns up in internet stores. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RedStar Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 Indeed - not worried about the "invasion stripe" aircraft any more, as we know now that the decal set is airshow only. My commentary was that just finding a photo of a MiG-17F in Soviet service has been difficult. Plenty of MiG-17s but not 17Fs. The books that make it to the west are sometimes too filled with prototype and one-off photos, as opposed to just photos of aircraft in service. And as for the Hi Decal MiG-15 set, the Russian aircraft are a demonstration bird and a Korean war bird. In both cases, I'm just wanting to build a plain natural metal Soviet MiG... Shouldn't be this hard.... Anyone have any older Cutting Edge or Aeromaster sets that they'd be willing to part out? I really just need the numbers at this point! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 In the 4+ book the red number 41 aircraft is a service a/c light grey in colour and it was in this scheme in early 1970's. There is a colour photo of it with its sister aircraft red 36 in the background (also grey). The only other MiG-17 in that book is of the Vietnamese airforce. The two other Russian aircraft are a PF and a PFU version in natural metal. I know it is not much help but a promise is a promise. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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