Tamiya 1/32 Corsair F4U-1 colours

[GlennCauley]

I am inquiring about some of the colour call-outs in the new Tamiya 1/32 Corsair F4U-1 "Birdcage" kit.

It's my intention to build it as a US Marine Corps VMF-215 (marking option C)

1)

On the interior, many of the parts are designated to be painted in the following colour mix:

XF-5 (flat green) : 2

XF-3 (flat blue) : 1

(which will result in a bluish-green colour)

However, MANY of the pictures I have seen online of these kit builds show the interior colour (bulkheads, consoles, etc.) having a cockpit green colour (not bluish-green).

Sooooooo....... which is correct?

2)

Fuselage interior... the colour call-outs designated the following colour mix in several places:

X-17 (pink) : 5

X-21 (flat) : 2

XF-9 (hull red) : 1

(which will result in a salmon colour)

But again... in some pics of online builds they show green chromate in the interior, not a "salmon" colour.

Sooooooo....... which is correct?

3)

Now I *HATE* mixing colours when I know there are likely FS colours out there that I can get.

Can anyone help in determining the proper FS colours for either a) the mixed colours in the instructions, or B) the proper colours to be used.

[Modelmkr]

The blue-green colour is odd... not sure what reference that colour was meant to match.

The only interior colours I would assign are:

Interior green (zinc chromate + lamp black)

Zinc chromate (Tamiya XF-4 is a good match)

Salmon pink primer (mix=?)

Cockpit is definately generally interior green. As to other areas and thier colours, it depends as much on time frame as it does on what area of the aircraft. Early Vought aircraft used salmon pink for primer colour... where is the tricky question. Having gone through the research grinder on interior colours for the P-51D Mustang, I can attest that every corner you turn reveals some insights but many more questions and exceptions to rules.

All I can say is dig into the research to get the answers. Likely no one here can provide anything definitave other than best guesses and "on this specific airframe it was this colour".

Good luck.. we'll all need it to unravel yet another colour can-o-worms.

Marc B.

[Jennings]

My guess is they're going for Dull Dark Green, in which case there is an out of the bottle Tamiya color that's pretty close (I forget the exact name/number).

Are you sure the cockpit on an early -1 is "definitely generally interior green" (definitely generally??). Seems some of the photos that have surfaced recently indicate there was Dull Dark Green/Bronze Green in there.

[PFlint]

as much as I hate them that is what "Master Pins" , "Stickies" and "FAQ's" are for.

Please go here:

http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=201671

and then go to :

http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=149739

[Jennings]

Pinned topics are great, but if the information they contain is years old, then it may not be much use. The subject of F4U-1 colors is an ongoing one, and new information has come to light since 2010.

[don f]

Glenn,

William Reece stands by his original research.

Here's a link to his current 2013 comments about F4U-1 finishes:

Willian Reece comments about F4U-1 finishes.

And more here. The anecdotal information about finishes is interesting. Hopefully, Dana Bell's current research will add more.

Don

[Hal Marshman Sr]

Pix of the Lake M8ichigan recovery reveal a cockpit of Dull Dark Green. A good enamel subsitiute is Model master Euro One Green, a dark green with a slight bluish tint. The L Mich recovery also revealed USN light Gray wheel wells. Balance of fuselage interior is Salmon. Inside of engine cowling is USN Lt Gray. Wheels and gear legs are aluminum paint.. One area odf contention is the area aft of the cockpit, behind tthe glass (Look back area). This is the same color as thwe factory applied exterior finish, USN Blue/Gray. In the event of both depot andf field repaints, that area retained its original Blue/GHray color, as it was too much work to remove the glass, and repaint that area.

<a href="http://s248.photobucket.com/user/p-47fan/media/009.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg200/p-47fan/009.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 009.jpg"/></a>

[Modelmkr]

My guess is they're going for Dull Dark Green, in which case there is an out of the bottle Tamiya color that's pretty close (I forget the exact name/number).

Are you sure the cockpit on an early -1 is "definitely generally interior green" (definitely generally??). Seems some of the photos that have surfaced recently indicate there was Dull Dark Green/Bronze Green in there.

Caught up in my own generalizations. Yeah, some earlier USAAF and USN/USMC A/C did wear DDG cockpits. I should know better than to generalize with interior green assignments.

"Definately generally" was meant to indicate that other colours (eg. black) were used in the cockpit along with the primary colour. But hey, at least it sparked some discussion/ debate on colours... ;)

Marc B.

[GlennCauley]

Just found a great reference for Dull Dark Green and Salmon primer:

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/01/stuff_eng_interior_colours_us.htm

Plug these into the Ultimate Paint Conversion Chart (an invaluable resource) and voila!

Dull Dark Green:

"FS 34092 seems to be a reasonable match for Dull Dark Green, with a comment that the original colour was slightly darker."

Mr. Color #302 (which I have already... yayyyyy)

Salmon:

"...somewhere between FS 32276 and 32356"

red-orange w/ zinc chromate

unless someone offers a more viable paint other than Polly Scale SP Daylight Orange... there will be mixing in my future (ugh)

[Hal Marshman Sr]

For those that don't mind mixing, I mix 50/50 Mod Mast Rust with Their Insignia Red. I mix this mixture 50/50 wuthTestors 1/4 oz bottle Yellow Zinc chromate. The original Salmon was a mix of YZC with Indian red. be aware that except for a few of the earliest F4U-1s, the majority of birdcage types came from the factory with USN Non Specular Light Gray wheel wells. A recent thread over on Hyperscale with Willian Reese, Corsair Jim Sullivan taking part dealt with this esoteric subject, and the above is the gist of what was concluded. Also, be aware that the gear door innards matched their outer color, in this case, USN NS Light Gray. Hal Sr

[don f]

be aware that except for a few of the earliest F4U-1s, the majority of birdcage types came from the factory with USN Non Specular Light Gray wheel wells. A recent thread over on Hyperscale with Willian Reese, Corsair Jim Sullivan taking part dealt with this esoteric subject, and the above is the gist of what was concluded.

Hi Hal,

Can you kindly provide the link to the thread in which the conclusion underscored above was reached?

Thanks!

Don

[Jennings]

I've always had serious doubts that the salmon color was ever authorized or used as a finish visible on the exterior of the airplane (wheel wells, engine cowling interior). That was a primer and nothing more. The Navy may have had a pink submarine, but I don't think they ever had pink airplanes :)

[Hal Marshman Sr]

"Can you kindly provide the link to the thread in which the conclusion underscored above was reached?"<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(238, 241, 250);">

A little beyond my capabilities. You might contact Modeldad Steve Eisenman, he also took part in the thread. Gotta be 2 or 3 weeks back, now. Hal Sr

[is it windy yet?]

I've always had serious doubts that the salmon color was ever authorized or used as a finish visible on the exterior of the airplane (wheel wells, engine cowling interior). That was a primer and nothing more. The Navy may have had a pink submarine, but I don't think they ever had pink airplanes :)/>

Maybe it was a new guy's first day, and the 'boys' were joking with him and said paint it pink. In reality you would think that such an abnormal colour, would be well documented before implementation. I know the human memory is far from perfect, but you'd think some veteran would be saying " and the inside of my damn airplane was painted pink".

I know Rosie the riviter was taking to the work force, perhaps it was a feminine touch.

[is it windy yet?]

I am inquiring about some of the colour call-outs in the new Tamiya 1/32 Corsair F4U-1 "Birdcage" kit.

It's my intention to build it as a US Marine Corps VMF-215 (marking option C)

1)

On the interior, many of the parts are designated to be painted in the following colour mix:

XF-5 (flat green) : 2

XF-3 (flat blue) : 1

(which will result in a bluish-green colour)

However, MANY of the pictures I have seen online of these kit builds show the interior colour (bulkheads, consoles, etc.) having a cockpit green colour (not bluish-green).

Sooooooo....... which is correct?

I've mixed my paint as per Tamiya's directions. In the bottle it appeared to blue, however once applied to the bare grey plastic it appears much closer to green. Now my reference photos show the colour as green zinc chromate, which this colour does not match. Nor does it match the very blue kit photos on the side of the box. I'm actually happy with the mix.

[Tracy White]

Rosie the riveter... really?

Salmon was a Vought primer used before complete standardization took hold. *LOOK* at those Lake Michigan F4U photos earlier in the thread and you'll see it.

I decided to use the salmon color on mine just for some variety, but only in the tail wheel well. You can see the color as-mixed from the Tamiya paints here:

http://www.skywaymodel.com/Builds&Previews/TAM60324_Pt2.html

[Hal Marshman Sr]

is it windy yet, I showed you a color pic of the real thing.The entire cockpit interior area was Dull Dark Green. There was no Chromate Green in the cockpit, unless the armored plate was that shade. hard to tell from my pic as it's heavily oxydized.

It has been my understanding that 2 coats of primer were demanded by the Gov't. In order to ensure that 2 coats were indeed applied, Indian Red paste was mixed with the Yellow Zinc Chromate, thus creating "Salmon". This would be applied over the base primer of YZC. The entire interior of the airplane including the engine accessory bay, was done thus, and yes, the salmon would have been visible through the tail wheel well. Except for a very few examples early in the production run, the main wheel bays and cowling interior were over painted with USN Non Spec Light Gray. Even in the very few birds that showed salmon in the wells, the door interiors were also USN Non Spec Light Gray.

I've spelled it out as simply as I possibly can. If others feel differently, or have references that they trust more, it's a free country, and they're most welcome to do as they wish, paintwise. Hal Sr

Edited July 7, 2013 by Hal Marshman Sr

[Jennings]

I have no doubt that Vought probably used a salmon colored primer. You can see that kind of primer in use today if you look around. What I have doubts about is whether it was ever left as a visible external color on an airplane that was designed to be used in a very corrosive environment. You'd think somebody would have come up with a photo of a wheel well or a cowling interior that showed pink, but you just don't.

[Scooby]

Rosie the riveter... really?

Salmon was a Vought primer used before complete standardization took hold. *LOOK* at those Lake Michigan F4U photos earlier in the thread and you'll see it.

I decided to use the salmon color on mine just for some variety, but only in the tail wheel well. You can see the color as-mixed from the Tamiya paints here:

http://www.skywaymodel.com/Builds&Previews/TAM60324_Pt2.html

How many new cars do you see in primer? A primer is just that, a coating for the final finish.

Long ago I discussed Corsair wheel-wells with a former Vought employee who painted Corsairs. He said they sprayed the with he belly color. A primer is porous and can hold water which will lead to corrosion.

The Michigan Corsair was down to the final coat of paint. There was evidence the exterior coat had flaked off. Some of the exterior paint was still in place.

[Tracy White]

I was responding to the "Rosie the Riveter" reasoning/joke. As I said, if you actually *look* at this photo, you will see the salmon primer on the INSIDE, behind the cockpit's rear frame. I was not suggesting that it was used on exterior surfaces.

And not all primers are porus. I have no idea if the Vought primer was or not.

[Scooby]

I was responding to the "Rosie the Riveter" reasoning/joke. As I said, if you actually *look* at this photo, you will see the salmon primer on the INSIDE, behind the cockpit's rear frame. I was not suggesting that it was used on exterior surfaces.

And not all primers are porus. I have no idea if the Vought primer was or not.

Primer is porous so that it absorbs and grips the top coat.

I have many images of the Michigan Corsair, none of the exposed areas had salmon. I know people who have seen it in person, all the exposed areas had topcoat.

[Tracy White]

Are we talking past each other? Interior = non exposed. I said the salmon primer was on the interior. You can clearly see it on the Michigan F4U behind the cockpit and inside the wings. INSIDE, not exposed.

[Jennings]

The old William Reece stuff indicated that salmon primer was visible externally in places like the wheel wells and inside the cowling. I haven't seen any photographic evidence of that to date.

[Tracy White]

Recent postings seem to indicate that the main wheel wells and cowl interior was painted in NS light gray. There appears to have been more variation with the tail wheel well, which I've read wasn't quite as likely to be painted in NS light gray over salmon as the main wells were.

[Jennings]

Which makes sense, since it would be nigh impossible to paint the tail wheel well once the fuselage was assembled. Easy to paint the cowling off the airplane and to paint the main wells with the airplane in a jig.