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Antonov

Asiana 777 Crashes At SFO

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Edit:

Lol, social media beaten by social media. :D/> Antonov beat me to it.

Edited by Pete

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social media, getting the news out faster than any organisation can B)/>

*I wonder if that lady will get a talking to about taking her luggage off during an emergency?

Edited by Raymond

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It must of had an A330 tail. Looks like most will survive thank goodness.

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Glad all are safe, well done to the cabin crew for getting the passengers off.

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From the aerial footage being shown right now, it definitely appears they came in short, and caught the edge of the runway right at the water.

Very glad to see that the fire that destroyed the pass. compartment was post landing.

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Don't worry by Monday it will be all forgotten when the Zimmerman witch hunt resumes...

Seriously though, Glad everyone is ok! I've made this flight a few times and the fact that everyone survived is a testament to Boeing!!

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I am now hearing on the news that 2 have died and 60 or so are injured.

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Don't worry by Monday it will be all forgotten when the Zimmerman witch hunt resumes...

I shut off television news here almost 2 years ago so I had no idea there was one going on.

I don't want to come off snooty or something but life goes so much nicer without it :thumbsup:/>

Ken

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I shut off television news here almost 2 years ago so I had no idea there was one going on.

I don't want to come off snooty or something but life goes so much nicer without it :thumbsup:/>/>

Ken

Hi Ken, I totally agree, I don't have cable or watch TV just for that reason!! Unfortunately its starting to look bad for some members of the flights families.

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Wonder if it is similar to the BA 777 crash at Heathrow a while back?

Either that or pilot error?

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From CNN:

"Members of South Korea's Aviation and Railway Accident Investigation Board will travel to San Francisco, that agency said. They'll be joined by a "go-to" team from the United States' National Transportation Safety Board..."

A "go-to" team? Really? Funny, I've always thought they were called "go teams". You learn something new every day on CNN. Wonder if they'd hire me as an aviation consultant for, oh, like $2.6 million a year?

Wonder if it is similar to the BA 777 crash at Heathrow a while back?

Either that or pilot error?

The odds of the same set of circumstances happening that happened to the BA flight are next to nil. For one, Boeing has fixed that problem, and there was an AD issued a long time ago to all 777 operators requiring them to implement the fix within a very short time period. For another, the odds that the same thing could have happened seconds before touchdown (which in the case of the BA flight was just pure dumb bad luck - could have happened long before {worse luck}, or as they were taxiing to the gate) is really nil.

As for the actual cause, that will need the "go-to team", but it sure as heck looks like this guy simply got low and slow on approach and tried to pull it out at the last second. When you screw up your approach and you're on the back side of the power curve, with 325 people strapped in behind you, then's not the time to screw around. It was the middle of what appeared to be a cloudless, beautiful day at SFO.

Edited by Jennings

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As for the actual cause, that will need the "go-to team", but it sure as heck looks like this guy simply got low and slow on approach and tried to pull it out at the last second. When you screw up your approach and you're on the back side of the power curve, with 325 people strapped in behind you, then's not the time to screw around. It was the middle of what appeared to be a cloudless, beautiful day at SFO.

I still find it hard to beleive that in todays day and age, with all the computers and automation, that pilots can still mess up a simple approach(If that was the cause..still not ruling out Mechanical Failure). It seems that so many of the major aviatin incidents these days are boiling down to straight forward pilot error( Russion yak-42, Air France 330, PoAF TU-154). Those three cases alone..pilot error crashed on take-off, pilot flew a plane into the ocean from 30 odd thousand feet, and pilots flew a plane into the ground while landing. None of those had mechanical failure (the 330 DID have a pitot tube issue, but it was a known issue with a published AD and should have been of no consequence)

My condolences to all those involved in this tragic incident.

Sean

Edited by martin_sam_2000

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If he was on full autoland(which he should have been) there is no pilot error unless he set altimeter info from approach control wrong. Plus radio altimeter which sends info to autoland system is unreliable over water. Possible windshear at end of runway or loss of ILS signal. Too many varibles with the computerization of planes today. Thanks for the black boxes which will straighten out exact cause. Condolences to the families of the 2 girls that died but so glad so many survived.

Frank

ATL

Edited by bugs3144

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If he was on full autoland(which he should have been) there is no pilot error unless he set altimeter info from approach control wrong. Plus radio altimeter which sends info to autoland system is unreliable over water. Possible windshear at end of runway or loss of ILS signal. Too many varibles with the computerization of planes today. Thanks for the black boxes which will straighten out exact cause. Condolences to the families of the 2 girls that died but so glad so many survived.

Frank

ATL

I'm hearing reports that the ILS was "turned off" at the time of the accident and the pilots were making a visual approach. That could indicate a poor approach where the pilot's got low and slow, impacting the seawall. Obviously this is complete speculation. Regardless, it truly is a miracle that so many survived. A few feet lower on it's approach and it might have been a completely different outcome.

Out of curiosity, why would an airport turn off an ILS system (or maybe it was down due to maint issues)? Also, given the accuracy of a modern autopilot, if the ILS was operational, why would any airline allow it's pilots to voluntarily opt for a manual landing instead of an automatic ILS approach?

I'm sure the accident report will be very interesting.

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It seems that so many of the major aviatin incidents these days are boiling down to straight forward pilot error...

Pilots are human...humans make mistakes. So far, advanced technology hasn't been able to totally solve that problem.

If he was on full autoland(which he should have been)
I'm hearing reports that the ILS was "turned off" at the time of the accident and the pilots were making a visual approach.

The ILS was NOTAMed out of service due to construction at the airport. That's a normal occurrence at airports - work is often done on weekends when air traffic is generally lighter, and with the weather at the time of the accident, an ILS isn't normally needed. The crew should have been aware of the ILS status from their preflight briefing. Without a functioning ILS, they would not have been able to use their Autoland system.

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Even if the ILS was out, there are still PAPI's. However, if they were accustomed to doing nothing but coupled approaches, and the flying pilot's stick and rudder/energy management skills had deteriorated, then that is a recipe for an accident such as this. Even still, it is hard to imagine on a CAVU day. Airline training emphasizes a stabilized approach miles out from landing. However if the tower sent them into a traditional VFR downwind pattern, that clearly would have been more challenging, especially if they were not familiar with the airport. Stick and rudder skills are perishable, and today's modern aircraft are very reliant on automated systems and VERY busy glass panel displays. Stick and rudder flying is IMO best done with a six pack.

CFI/CFII/MEI and former airline pilot.

Edited by DutyCat

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Even if the ILS was out, there are still PAPI's....However if the tower sent them into a traditional VFR downwind pattern, that clearly would have been more challenging, especially if they were not familiar with the airport.

I have seen conflicting reports as to whether the PAPIs were in service or not at the time of the crash. Tower would not have sent them around a VFR pattern. They would be sequenced by Approach and handed off to Tower 5-7 miles out for landing clearance on a straight-in approach - which under normal circumstances, could be visual or instrument as needed.

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As for the two 16 year old sisters who were found dead outside the aircraft, I hope they weren't hit by an emergency vehicle responding to the crash. Good job by everyone who responded.

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As for the two 16 year old sisters who were found dead outside the aircraft, I hope they weren't hit by an emergency vehicle responding to the crash. Good job by everyone who responded.

Reports I've read state they were sat at the back of the aircraft, which would indicate they were killed in the impact and were ejected from the aircraft rather than being run over by an emergency vehicle.

Vince

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