ya-gabor Posted April 15, 2014 Author Share Posted April 15, 2014 Some great comparison shots of the new Zvezda vs Trumpeter kits over on Scalemodels.ru I haven't studied them in depth - but it's looking good :thumbsup:/>/> Ken The kit looks good based on the Russian photos. Unfortunately there are some sink marks here and there and the detail inside the cockpit, main gear bays is fairly simple. On the other hand the panel lines are excellent, some of those vents look good too. An interesting addition is the inclusion of two types of chocks, the ladder and the intake covers. Look forward to it, well this is all I can look forward as far as Flankers go since last week I found out that my stash from the past 40 years was nicked by someone together with my record collection, Hi-Fi, all my decals, all the etchings (all PP Models sets) . . . :( The kits included some Heller Flankers, Airfix and the Hasegawa kit toghether with the ladders that I have designed for PP Models. At least now I dont have to think about the problem of having to build all those kits. :) Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wm_cheng Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Sorry, but this might be a newbie question (definitely not an expert in Flankers) but why is the ICM better than the Trumpeter? From the comparison photos on that site, it looks like the Trumpeter has tons more details engraved into the surface than the ICM model. I personally like rivets, and I understand there are those that don't - its this just a question of whether one likes rivets or not? or is there something fundamentally wrong with the Trumpeter? I have the Hasegawa Su-33 and consider that a great kit with lots of nice surface detail - so is this ICM kit supposed to be better? Anyone with news about the new Hasegawa Su-35 and how does this compare (other than the obvious fact that this is the earlier airframe? So sorry about your lost Gabor - I really hate that and they probably didn't know how much work had gone into collecting all that stuff to go with the models. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted April 15, 2014 Author Share Posted April 15, 2014 Sorry, but this might be a newbie question (definitely not an expert in Flankers) but why is the ICM better than the Trumpeter? From the comparison photos on that site, it looks like the Trumpeter has tons more details engraved into the surface than the ICM model. I personally like rivets, and I understand there are those that don't - its this just a question of whether one likes rivets or not? or is there something fundamentally wrong with the Trumpeter? I have the Hasegawa Su-33 and consider that a great kit with lots of nice surface detail - so is this ICM kit supposed to be better? Anyone with news about the new Hasegawa Su-35 and how does this compare (other than the obvious fact that this is the earlier airframe? So sorry about your lost Gabor - I really hate that and they probably didn't know how much work had gone into collecting all that stuff to go with the models. Thanks Wm Cheng. There is not much that I can do about this now. Just a small clarification. It's not the ICM kit which is compared with the Trump but the new Zvezda kit. As to the riveting, well it is a question of taste. Some like it, some dont. From what I have seen about Trump riveting is that in most cases they just simply add a lot of rivets around any panel lines whether they are there in real life on not. They look good but most of them are pure fiction. Still it looks impressive and if you like it then you are happy with your kit and this is what our hobby is about. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Inquisitor Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 (edited) Sorry, but this might be a newbie question (definitely not an expert in Flankers) but why is the ICM better than the Trumpeter? From the comparison photos on that site, it looks like the Trumpeter has tons more details engraved into the surface than the ICM model. I personally like rivets, and I understand there are those that don't - its this just a question of whether one likes rivets or not? or is there something fundamentally wrong with the Trumpeter? I have the Hasegawa Su-33 and consider that a great kit with lots of nice surface detail - so is this ICM kit supposed to be better? Anyone with news about the new Hasegawa Su-35 and how does this compare (other than the obvious fact that this is the earlier airframe? So sorry about your lost Gabor - I really hate that and they probably didn't know how much work had gone into collecting all that stuff to go with the models. ICM? Are you referring to the old ICM kit? But you said that comparison photos from that site, so I assume the link Flankerman put and really meant the new Zvezda kit in that comparison? But, a lot of bling bling doesn't make Trumpeter a better kit. Trumpeter still has some shape errors. Zvezda vs Trumpeter. Both are new molds, nice engraved panel lines and all. But still Zvezda shape wise comes out on top. Putting aside that Trump is a Su-27 and the Zvezda is a modernized Su-27SM. Trumpeter kit got plenty of errors. The lerx the curve is not completely correct. The main landing gear well has the wrong angle (it should be perpendicular to centerline, but trumpeter put at a V angle). Some of the included pylons/launcher rails are completely wrong shape. The usual mold line in the canopy is a big horrible step on the trumpeter kit and hard to clean. Edited April 15, 2014 by Inquisitor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 The ICM kit is horrible. Stay away. Zvezda's Su-27 is by far the best kit of a Flanker now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wm_cheng Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Ah, sorry about the typo (I must have had ICM on the brain) - but you're right, I meant the new Zvezda kit. I do love rivets, but not fictional ones. It's good to know about the shape inaccuracies as they are so much harder to correct. This was exactly what I wanted to know. I guess I'll just wait for the new Hasegawa Su-35 to come (I love Hasegawa kits anyways). Thanks for the info. I really do love the shape of this bird, one of my favourites, now all there is left for me is someone (Hasegawa or Tamiya) re-do a new tool F-14 in 72nd and I'll be complete! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 Now that I have lost my kits from the past 40 years, or most of them anyway I will have to go back to this one before my Zvezda kit arrives. I did plan to build the Hasegawa version from the stash but now someone else will do that instead of me. :( So this is what I am left with, an ancient vac form of the Su-27. There are only “minor” outline problems and the detailing is not up to todays standards but still it will build up into a nice, authentic representation of the real aircraft. :D Calling on Flanker experts to comment. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) Ken mentions it here. Edited April 16, 2014 by Laurent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 Ken mentions it here. Thanks Laurent, While going through what remains from my stash I have found some strange things including a French made resin Su-24 kit by MD (Maquettes Dauzie) which sold for an incredible 300FF at the time! It will be my next build after I am finished with the Elliott Su-27. :) Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 While going through what remains from my stash I have found some strange things including a French made resin Su-24 kit by MD (Maquettes Dauzie) which sold for an incredible 300FF at the time! I think it's a late eighties - early nineties kit. I was around twenty in these days and I couldn't care less of scale modelling... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ryan Hothersall Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Just ordered mine from Models Hobbies on UK eBay. AU$35 plus AU$8.70 post to Australia. eBay listing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 35USD is about the twice for what it is being sold for in russia. I will wait it out for sure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted April 17, 2014 Author Share Posted April 17, 2014 Good news is that I have just received my example of the brand new Zvezda Su-27 kit. The bad news is that now I have to deal with a serious question, should I do some work on the Zvezda kit or start the Elliott version shown a few posts above. :D :D :D Seriously. I like the Zvezda kit after a first look. The panel lines are really fine, crisp and authentic. I don’t see any need for rivets in 72nd scale, have a look at a painted aircraft from few meters and you will not see any rivets, just some of the quick release locks. In comparison with the Russian review on scale models . ru on my example there are not sink marks of any sort on the ejection seat, the only area where this is a problem is on the foreplanes. But a little filler would remedy this. The cockpit is a bit empty but the decals for it are very nice and would look OK. I like the addition of the ladder, two styles of chocks, intake cover. The pilot is not a must for me but I am sure some people will like the standing or the seated figure. The undercarriage bays are provide separately with bay doors for either closed or the open ones which have some internal detail. Over all I like the kit very much, unfortunately I don’t have now any other Flanker kits to compare it with but what I see in the box is pleasing. I am sure Ken or Berkut will have a more detailed review of the things inside the box. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 No need of more detailed review really. :) There isn't much to say at this point. There are some good macro shots here: http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_51939_start_60.html Zvezda has seemingly nailed accuracy, detail is bob-bob a few places but generally good enough basis. Now hopefully Aires will do a nicely fitting cockpit and wheelbays, and everything will be top notch. :) Maybe eduard can scale down their beautiful R-27's and -73's to 1/72. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted April 17, 2014 Author Share Posted April 17, 2014 Maybe eduard can scale down their beautiful R-27's and -73's to 1/72. Well, I am not sure about that. The surface detail on some of the Brassin goods is not that pleasing, and if they go down from 48 to 72 it will be even worst. At the weekend, at the Moson show could not miss the opportunity to get the Eduard Phantom (Good morning Da Nang!) with all its Brassin extras (it was just 42 Euro!!!!) and have to say that the engine exhaust are a complete waste. The details on the inside and the outside are excellent but the trailing edge is even worst than what you get in the kit from plastic!!! One can do wonders with resin casting and have knife edge trailing edges on parts, then why not here??????? :bandhead2: Same goes for the missiles! Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 I have the R-27 missiles and while they are superbly detailed, as you say, there are printing issues. Lots of lines on them. I had the impression that the resolution (and/or polishing of the masters) was now much better now and hence it wouldn't be an issue anymore. But since you are saying the exhaust in F-4 rebox are horrible i guess they still have issues to resolve. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 The canopy cross-section is U-shaped and not omega-shaped ? If so, is someone preparing a vacuformed canopy ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mario krijan Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 To me nose area looks spot on, and that is nicest thing to me. I think only that they done this kit with slightly less attention then for Mi-24 and Mi-26. Even with that it captures Flanker look very very well :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted April 18, 2014 Author Share Posted April 18, 2014 The canopy cross-section is U-shaped and not omega-shaped ? If so, is someone preparing a vacuformed canopy ? There is one manufacturer that I know who has done an excellent job in producing vac-form canopies of the best quality. It is Rob Taurus from the Czeh Republic. The bad news is that as far as I can see the things he is doing are unpredictable, I mean the subjects. I have from him the superb 48th scale canopies for the Eduard MiG-21 or on the other end of the range 144th scale Spitfire canopies he has produced for Brengun. I can only hope that he will do a canopy for the Zvezda Flanker! His work is excellent!!! :worship: Haneto did an excellent Su-27 canopy in 48th but I havent heard from him in months. If we dont get a vac-form canopy I would still be happy with the canopy in the kit as it is, just a bit of detailing added to it. I would rather have it U shaped then have to polish a seam line on top! Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ryan Hothersall Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Got mine today here in Australia. Good to see Zvezda have put each sprue in separate bags. A lot better than having the parts rattling around in the box. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niki4703 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I received my kit yesterday and it kind of exploded in my face... Checking now back the pictures linked here before, one can certainly see that the clear parts in this kit are not without trouble: http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/img_1004480_1397566715_1397508189_glass-1.jpg.html I checked again Ken's In-Progress topic and saw no mentioning of this issue, but in my case the canopy looks awful really. There are no scratches (the parts have been separately packed, which I really applaud) but clearly a molding issue making the parts "a real eye catcher" - mostly the canopy itself and to a lesser degree the windscreen. I find this a pity since it comes in total contrast with almost every other part in this kit :( Or am I being too negative and some of you have managed to polish those faults out? I'll try taking a picture and posting it here this evening or tomorrow morning. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 (edited) I checked again Ken's In-Progress topic and saw no mentioning of this issue I am at fault here........ Mine isna't as bad as the photo you linked to - but there are some slightly clarity issues. I put mine down to leaving the masking tape on too long, so I didn't mention it as I thought it was my fault as I was rushing to finish my model I have just checked a second kit and the canopy does have what looks like ever so slight 'clouds' on it. They are difficult to spot and certainily don't shout out at you - I'm sure a polish and a dip in Klear/Future will sort it. Like you say it is in total contrast to the rest of the kit. Ken Edited May 15, 2014 by Flankerman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niki4703 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Thanks for the feedback, Ken! I asked the same question on another forum and the response has also been rather positive, so it seems that the clear parts affair is down to luck in the end. For the sake of completeness, mine look like this: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flankerman Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Ouch !! Mine is nowhere near that bad - must be a bad batch from the mould ??? Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kotey Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 If you'll contact with Zvezda - i think they send you replacement, as i know when Ken were in same situation with Mi-26 canopy he got replacement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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