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AMK will release a MiG-31!


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i think that GWH and AMK might have chosen a niche market...in a niche market... maybe it's risky business... but sometime, to win, you have to take a certain amount of risk...

both are rather new players in the business and might think that this niche is a good one... at least to make their names.

but with the hundreds of Aftermarket companies, with a couple of them being rather big players (in the market) ...there should be people that likes to buy aftermarket stuff...

i, for myself, spend more money, overall, on aftermarket items, than on kits. (not that much more... still, slightly more...i own 7 GWH mig-29's, and haven't feel the need yet to buy any AM item for them (decals excepted))

I would tend to agree with ErikG and Mingwin on this one, i believe AMK is probably going for a connoiseurs, niche market here, i remember their Fouga Magister that had all the internal structure built-in. That's what i would call a product for a niche market (exceptional details, but it is not everyone who will want to display an aircraft with a see-through fuselage and wings). This is also exactly what companies like Zoukei Moura and Finemolds are doing with their Horten and with the new F-14D (which though not going all out like the Horten or the Fouga-Magister, still have quite a lot of open panels to make it out of the ordinary, and more expensive and more detailed than all previous 1-72nd F-14's). Given that the MIG-31 is a subject most companies have avoided tackling (my guess would be due to a smaller market, and the fact that there are just two countries using the MIG-31, and decal schemes are limited), and even though it is a beautiful aircraft and a very significant one, that one along with the MIG-25 were ignored for years by most manufacturers due to their sheer size at 1-48th and to what might be a much lower demand for these aircrafts than F-16 and F-15 kits. Still, Zvezda and Condor both tackled the MIG-31 in 1-72nd, but small Eastern European kit companies are known to kit almost everything Russian that other companies have not kitted, and understandably their molds did not cost anywhere near as much as the ones of AMK will cost, being far less detailed than the AMK ones, but they are still neat for what they are, and their low price. I just wonder how many kits Revell sold when they made that giant U-boat model. Or that giant Space Shuttle kit. I think these were more show-off products that probably did cost them an arm but which gave them a lot of publicity for a short while. Not sure though if it was worth it for them financially or just a money pit, but companies of that size usually have a back strong enough to tackle this sort of stunts and come out of it fine, even if they lose money on these. Those are extreme examples anyway. The MIG-31 is not That big, but still it is still one of the largest 1-48th jet fighter kits out there. And given that people have waited for a long time for a good MIG-31 kit at that scale, in the long run, if no other company decides to make another MIG-31, they might sell enough of them to make it worthwile.

Edited by Stratospheremodels
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I would tend to agree with ErikG and Mingwin on this one, i believe AMK is probably going for a connoiseurs, niche market here, i remember their Fouga Magister that had all the internal structure built-in. That's what i would call a product for a niche market (exceptional details, but it is not everyone who will want to display an aircraft with a see-through fuselage and wings). This is also exactly what companies like Zoukei Moura and Finemolds are doing with their Horten and with the new F-14D (which though not going all out like the Horten or the Fouga-Magister, still have quite a lot of open panels to make it out of the ordinary, and more expensive and more detailed than all previous 1-72nd F-14's). Given that the MIG-31 is a subject most companies have avoided tackling (my guess would be due to a smaller market, and the fact that there are just two countries using the MIG-31, and decal schemes are limited), and even though it is a beautiful aircraft and a very significant one, that one along with the MIG-25 were ignored for years by most manufacturers due to their sheer size at 1-48th and to what might be a much lower demand for these aircrafts than F-16 and F-15 kits. Still, Zvezda and Condor both tackled the MIG-31 in 1-72nd, but small Eastern European kit companies are known to kit almost everything Russian that other companies have not kitted, and understandably their molds did not cost anywhere near as much as the ones of AMK will cost, being far less detailed than the AMK ones, but they are still neat for what they are, and their low price. I just wonder how many kits Revell sold when they made that giant U-boat model. Or that giant Space Shuttle kit. I think these were more show-off products that probably did cost them an arm but which gave them a lot of publicity for a short while. Not sure though if it was worth it for them financially or just a money pit, but companies of that size usually have a back strong enough to tackle this sort of stunts and come out of it fine, even if they lose money on these. Those are extreme examples anyway. The MIG-31 is not That big, but still it is still one of the largest 1-48th jet fighter kits out there. And given that people have waited for a long time for a good MIG-31 kit at that scale, in the long run, if no other company decides to make another MIG-31, they might sell enough of them to make it worthwile.

Hobby Boss / Trumpeter is planning to release a MiG-31 kit in 1/48th scale.

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Fisrt fallacy: People must buy aftermarket goods because this or these kit is badly detailled.

No, I buy aftermarket if and only if I want to, the fact that a kit is good or badly detailled, isn't the main reason of my choice.

Well, people does not HAVE TO buy after market stuff. There are no laws that force you to have a certain level of detail or level of accuracy in your finished kit. If you want to buy a cheap kit and just build it straight from the box, not caring about the missing detail, that is fine. Then the GWH or AMK kits are clearly not for you. If you want to build a cheap kit and spend the time and effort making a super detailed replica by using scratch building skills, that is ALSO fine.

Second fallacy, the biggest: to believe every modeller thinks the same, chooses the same, builds the same.

Yes, and you step in to the same trap yourself when you believe there is no market for expensive and highly detailed kits. Reality appears to be proving you wrong. Those super detailed kits do sell, and sell well. Yet the simpler kits sell well too. There is room in the market place for them all.

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Yes, and you step in to the same trap yourself when you believe there is no market for expensive and highly detailed kits. Reality appears to be proving you wrong. Those super detailed kits do sell, and sell well. Yet the simpler kits sell well too. There is room in the market place for them all.

What a nice strawman.

Finally, I didn't catch the goal of the present discussion here the first time: why these people were trying to denigrate an concurrent which didn't exist?

No, I understand thanks to B.Sin and the info he has given.

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What a nice strawman.

Ok, so you DO accept that there are different kind of builders, and that some would go for a more expensive and detailed kit, while there are cheaper kits around? So what´s the point making all the fuzz then? If you want the Academy Mig 29, go for it. Nobody is stopping you. I went with the GWH and I´m perfectly happy with that.

I will probably go with the AMK Mig 31 since AMK has a better reputation for being accurate and I like their attitude towards my hobby and their ambitions of making a highly detailed yet easy to build model kit. Ease of build, in-box level of detail and ease of build are more important to me than shaving a few $ of the price tag. Your priorities may vary.

You are free to go with whatever manufacturer you like, for whatever reason you like. It´s the cornerstone of a capitalistic market economy, that consumers are free to choose whatever supplier they feel meet THEIR particular need.

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Ok, so you DO accept that there are different kind of builders, and that some would go for a more expensive and detailed kit, while there are cheaper kits around? So what´s the point making all the fuzz then? If you want the Academy Mig 29, go for it. Nobody is stopping you. I went with the GWH and I´m perfectly happy with that.

I have to say I agree 100% with this. I am another of the builders who will not buy an Academy MiG-29 kit again, now that the GWH product is available. The extra cost is more than worth it for me.

Should the AMK MiG-31 be released and turn out to be of the same quality as the GWH MiG-29, and Trumpeter/Hobby-Boss brings out a MiG-31 that is cheaper but less accurate or with less detail, I would certainly rather buy the more expensive AMK kit. I know for a fact there are more people who think like me and who are willing to pay the extra cost, and for whom those detailed one peace missiles are certainly worth the money I pay for them. Only the likes of AMK and GWH would be able to say whether there are enough people who think like me and erik_g to make their approach profitable, but I certainly hope that is the case as I would love to see more of the same. Indications so far is that GWH is doing pretty well with their MiGs, even though the Academy kits are very easy to find, so maybe the market is indeed big enough.

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Oh please, not the autorithy argument.

How many different model kit manufacturers and how many of their projects have you been involved in the development of?

Didn't think so...

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Ok, so you DO accept that there are different kind of builders, and that some would go for a more expensive and detailed kit, while there are cheaper kits around? So what´s the point making all the fuzz then? If you want the Academy Mig 29, go for it. Nobody is stopping you. I went with the GWH and I´m perfectly happy with that.

I will probably go with the AMK Mig 31 since AMK has a better reputation for being accurate and I like their attitude towards my hobby and their ambitions of making a highly detailed yet easy to build model kit. Ease of build, in-box level of detail and ease of build are more important to me than shaving a few $ of the price tag. Your priorities may vary.

You are free to go with whatever manufacturer you like, for whatever reason you like. It´s the cornerstone of a capitalistic market economy, that consumers are free to choose whatever supplier they feel meet THEIR particular need.

So after a strawman, do you really think that the best choice is trying an another strawman?

That's funny.

If you take a look at the post you'd make your first attempt, it said:

Second fallacy, the biggest: to believe every modeller thinks the same, chooses the same, builds the same.

And now you're trying to accuse me saying the opposite.

This discussion is somewhat surrealistic, I talk about mold engineering choices, budgets and costs, you're desperately trying to summarize this into a "Academy mig-29 vs GWH mig-29", despite the fact I underlined earlier that everybody is master of his money and personnal choices.

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So after a strawman, do you really think that the best choice is trying an another strawman?

That's funny.

Ok, I completely misunderstood you, I thought you were arguing that expensive kits using slide moulding technilogy were unnecessary when there were cheaper alternatives around. So I tried to tell you that some of us are willing to pay for more detailed and more well researched kits that will look very good straight out of the box without resorting to either after market or scratch building. That it is indeed good business to make these expensive kits.

I feel rather embarassed now when you tell me that this was your opinion all along.. Nice to hear that we agree on things.

Edited by erik_g
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And now, an actual update instead of philosophy club on ARC. :P

Intake sprue + assembled intake, notice we are looking at the intake sideways...

5eD91DK.jpg

Intake assembled, looking at it from the front. Nice, eh?

II9O8Zu.jpg

Intake, engine, gear bays sprue. Notice the parts where there are two sections that are separated with raised bars. I wounder what goes between there? ;)

iD7yJRx.jpg?1

All refuel probe versions will be covered too. No probe at all, closed probe with aircover, open probe with cover. Closed "naked" probe, open "naked probe. A heads up for future; 99% of the pics show MiG-31BM's with naked probe. They probably remove the cover at the airbase so that it is easier to see where the tip of refuel probe is when refueling. MiG-31BSM's doesnt have any refuel probe at all.

Edited by Berkut
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That looks really good.

I have a question about molding the intakes. Since missiles can be molded as single piece, I was wondering whether same can be done with the intakes. Is is that difficult mold them as single piece? Maybe the whole thing is too much to ask but the front half for example???

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That looks really good.

I have a question about molding the intakes. Since missiles can be molded as single piece, I was wondering whether same can be done with the intakes. Is is that difficult mold them as single piece? Maybe the whole thing is too much to ask but the front half for example???

While the missiles can be done with a four part mold the intake would be prohibitively complex. For each recessed detail you would have to have a retractable part on the mold so that it can come a part without damaging detail.

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That looks really good.

I have a question about molding the intakes. Since missiles can be molded as single piece, I was wondering whether same can be done with the intakes. Is is that difficult mold them as single piece? Maybe the whole thing is too much to ask but the front half for example???

It's not difficult, it's simply impossible, if you want realistic details and geometries inside.

With plastic cooling comes shrinkage, so you must design mold male parts with an angle to help the release.

So, less or no details inside, geometry that negates realism, higher costs (bigger and more complex mold): not a good solution.

Edited by shion
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