Panel number on F-15 - what is it for ?

[Douglas]

Hi guys,

I noticed that on F-15J there are panel numbers on the surface of the plane. However, it doesn't seem so in other countries' F-15C or D, nor E. Do you know what the panel numbers are for ? And why it is not so in other planes ?

Regards,

Douglas

[Finn]

The panel numbers are basically for maintenance, internal parts are behind various panel numbers, the TO (Technical Order) will tell you which panel to remove to fix a certain part. Plus of course if you take them off you need to know where they go:

http://dmn.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/F15A-Inspection-1280x992.jpg

When new most a/c will have all the panel numbers on but over many years of re-paints for one reason or another the numbers weren't re-applied.

Jari

[Douglas]

I see now, Jari. So I guess it would be rather trouble to re-apply those small characters and that the maintenance staffs are familiar with the Eagle after all these years. May be the Japanese are not that smart or it is their character to follow every instruction.

Regards,

Douglas

[JackMan]

May be the Japanese are not that smart or it is their character to follow every instruction.

Regards,

Douglas

Nothing to do with smarts.

The Japanese just like to do things in an orderly fashion. Plus their Special Anniversary Eagles are some of the best looking around:

http://www.amv83.fr/Asm/Sig/japon/F15/305sqn/305sqn50years%20JASDF-2.jpg

http://www.amv83.fr/Asm/Sig/japon/F15/305sqn/50years-1.jpg

http://www.amv83.fr/Asm/galleryjapanF15Gallery.htm

Certainly more different than your standard boring grey Eagle.

[ThudDriver]

I would tend to think that on an active flightline each aircraft has an assigned crew chief who is responsible for the aircraft's flight status. If he / she didn't doesn't know which panels to

remove for required repairs/adjustments: he / she wouldn't be doing that job. If the maintenance person needs the panels numbered: I wouldn't sign off on the acceptance log.

Once an aircraft gets a repaint, the numbers application becomes an extra amount of unnecessary work.

My .02 cents

Frank C.

[Jennings]

May be the Japanese are not that smart or it is their character to follow every instruction.

Or maybe you could keep your racist quotes to yourself?

[Douglas]

Certainly more different than your standard boring grey Eagle.

Agree. That is why I am trying to do a J version, which leads to a question of the panel numbers.

Regards,

Douglas

[Douglas]

I would tend to think that on an active flightline each aircraft has an assigned crew chief who is responsible for the aircraft's flight status. If he / she didn't doesn't know which panels to

remove for required repairs/adjustments: he / she wouldn't be doing that job. If the maintenance person needs the panels numbered: I wouldn't sign off on the acceptance log.

Once an aircraft gets a repaint, the numbers application becomes an extra amount of unnecessary work.

My .02 cents

Frank C.

Right, Frank. What I guess is aligned with your view : maintenance staffs are familiar with the Eagle after all these years. Thanks for the idea.

Regards,

Douglas

[Douglas]

Or maybe you could keep your racist quotes to yourself?

Muuu........... I did not intend to look them down. It is just I was making wild guess. Please accept my apology if there was any misunderstanding.

Regards,

Douglas

[Scooby]

I would tend to think that on an active flightline each aircraft has an assigned crew chief who is responsible for the aircraft's flight status. If he / she didn't doesn't know which panels to

remove for required repairs/adjustments: he / she wouldn't be doing that job. If the maintenance person needs the panels numbered: I wouldn't sign off on the acceptance log.

Once an aircraft gets a repaint, the numbers application becomes an extra amount of unnecessary work.

My .02 cents

Frank C.

99% true. I knew most of the panels I took off frequently on the aircraft I worked on (Hornets, Hercs, Twin Otter, Twin Huey, Kiowa, and Griffon).

But there was the odd one that was rarely taken off as well as some similar panels that only fit in specific spots.

I also thought it was a good way to make the young guys learn the books. I made them look up the procedure and find the panel themselves.

[Scooby]

I would tend to think that on an active flightline each aircraft has an assigned crew chief who is responsible for the aircraft's flight status. If he / she didn't doesn't know which panels to

remove for required repairs/adjustments: he / she wouldn't be doing that job. If the maintenance person needs the panels numbered: I wouldn't sign off on the acceptance log.

Once an aircraft gets a repaint, the numbers application becomes an extra amount of unnecessary work.

My .02 cents

Frank C.

99% true. I knew most of the panels I took off frequently on the aircraft I worked on (Hornets, Hercs, Twin Otter, Twin Huey, Kiowa, and Griffon).

But there was the odd one that was rarely taken off as well as some similar panels that only fit in specific spots.

I also thought it was a good way to make the young guys learn the books. I made them look up the procedure and find the panel themselves.

[spejic]

F-15's come from the factory with panel numbers, so you would see them on new US Air Force F-15's. When they are eventually repainted, the USAF usually doesn't reapply them, but some air forces keep them. You can see them on Israeli F-15's, although they are usually subdued on aircraft in camo schemes.

http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/carl_dennis/f-15i/images/f-15i_14_of_43.jpg

[Douglas]

99% true. I knew most of the panels I took off frequently on the aircraft I worked on (Hornets, Hercs, Twin Otter, Twin Huey, Kiowa, and Griffon).

But there was the odd one that was rarely taken off as well as some similar panels that only fit in specific spots.

I also thought it was a good way to make the young guys learn the books. I made them look up the procedure and find the panel themselves.

Very good point in addition to what Frank said. Thanks.

Regards,

Douglas

[Douglas]

F-15's come from the factory with panel numbers, so you would see them on new US Air Force F-15's. When they are eventually repainted, the USAF usually doesn't reapply them, but some air forces keep them. You can see them on Israeli F-15's, although they are usually subdued on aircraft in camo schemes.

http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/carl_dennis/f-15i/images/f-15i_14_of_43.jpg

Sir, you made very good point. I never noticed Israeli Eagle has panel numbers like that.

Thank you thank you very much.

Regards,

Douglas

[Ol Crew Dog]

Originally we had the panel numbers on the jet when they arrived new. This changed in the early 80's, these panel numbers were no longer put on the aircraft from the factory along with serviceing placards. The information on the placards was misleading as TO's and JG's were always changing info. Panel numbers happened during the Chreech reign.

[LanceB]

I would tend to think that on an active flightline each aircraft has an assigned crew chief who is responsible for the aircraft's flight status.

Perhaps in the Air Force, with their cast of thousands, but as as ex-maintainer in the Corps we had no such luxury. Only about 100-or-so guys in the squadron, including the paper pushers and pilots, and 20 aircraft to keep flying.

If he / she didn't doesn't know which panels to remove for required repairs/adjustments: he / she wouldn't be doing that job.

And anyone who won't look at the manual to see what panels need removing shouldn't (and wouldn't) be doing that job. Nor the QA supervisors. Especially the QA supervisors, because they have to sign off work on systems they didn't do, on systems they didn't learn how to work on as a young troop. Also, and perhaps things are different nowadays, but from my experiences 25 years ago when we deployed to AF bases, the USAF was far more fussy about using the manuals than we were. They didn't do anything maintenance-related on a jet without having the manual right there at the plane. We had to do an engine change one day, and the Air Force boys were flabbergasted we were doing all that without a book in sight. The manuals were in the shop - they were consulted before we started, and if we ran into any questions we went back into the shop and checked the manuals, but we didn't take them out to the plane.

If the maintenance person needs the panels numbered: I wouldn't sign off on the acceptance log.

We didn't "need" them numbered to remove them, the manuals had pretty pictures showing what number corresponded to which panel (the planes did come from the factory with every panel numbered, though). If we were doing something that was "open, check and close" we didn't need them numbered to put them back on, either.

But consider this - as an airframes maintainer, our job was to remove and replace panels so other shops could get in and do their jobs. Avionics shop did not remove panels to get to their black boxes - we did. Powerplants did not remove panels to get access to engine components - we did. We took the panels off the jet and took them into the airframes shop where we stored them until it was time to put them back on. Now, with 20 jets having various things done to them all at the same time, often with jobs starting in the late afternoon after flight ops, meaning the day shift would pull things off and the night shift would put them back on, or vice versa, without numbers that large pile of gray panels in the corner is almost impossible to sort. Each and every panel was tagged with the aircraft number and, if the panel number had been painted over, the panel number was written on the tag as well. We also had a habit of writing both in greasepencil on the inside of the panels as well. Paper tags get torn.

Just 2 yen from someone who has been there and done that.

[Douglas]

OI Crew Dog and LanceB, I am not one doing plane related job. What you both said really opened my eyes. Thanks.

Regards,

Douglas

[Ol Crew Dog]

Being a Crew Chief on the F-15 for 20 some odd years yes we were "Dedicated Crew Chiefs" but we would work all the aircraft on the Flight line within the Squadron although assigned to a specific aircraft to which you were responsible for.

Most of the time back when, I could have a second wipe or even a third ( usually a brand new Jeep out of Tech school), so being a 7 level Eng run, Hydro, and Engine mechanic certified you end up working on all the other jets and you depended on your assitant to cover our jet.

Panel numbers were eliminated in the early 80's due to them not required to be on the aircraft and would not want thos russians to know what is under what panel number, but rumour was Gen Creech thought they were an Eyesore and wanted them renmoved on all new aircraft coming off the assembly line.

We had to remove the panel's for the Spec's as well, along with phase and if your homebase had a depot, that too. There were some oddball panels that were not an everyday occurance let alone ever removed, for that we had panel charts to which we would have them posted in the aircraft forms or in our cheat books.

Yes we had to have the manual out and opened to the correct page, theis was with job guides when doing everyday maintenance but when we had to tropubleshoot or work some heavy duty work we broke out the Tech Orders. Most of the time the more experianced maintenance troops would review the JG or TO before the job is started and use the JG or TO as a knee pad.

Any panel removed a big RED X was put in the forms to reflect non flyable condidtion and a 7 level and above had to inspect the panels removed before the aircraft was returned to flying status, we did remove them for "Red Balls" to prevent ground aborts but before that aircraft taxied from the spot they red x's needed to be signed off and an exceptional release needed to be done by a 9 level or the Production Super.

Most of the time an odd panel number come up so we would have to consult the charts but mostly with experiance we knew where the panel was for the job.

I have worked the F-15 for 20 years as a Crew Chief, Engine Mech, Hydro Mech, Crash Recovery Tech along with assorted other aircraft that came across my path in TA and Crash recovery.

[ikar]

When we transitioned into our F-15A/B aircraft we had a big ceremony to mark the event On display was a T-33 and our first ship, a "B" model:

As you might be able to see, there are almost no access panel markings left. I asked a crew chief about this and he said that after a while, they would just stop putting on all but the most important markings, warnings and so on. Later I got a copy of the F-15 Crew Chief's Handbook that they could use if they needed to find a certain panel not marked. It not only shows how to do various things on the aircraft but also all the panel that normally would have been painted on a new ship.

I remember when J.A.S.D.F. got their first F-15s. They came into Kadena with only the tail numbers only and were taken straight into a hanger and closed off. When they came back out they had their national markings added. I was planning to go out a get a better look but they went directly to the runway and left.

[Ol Crew Dog]

When we transitioned into our F-15A/B aircraft we had a big ceremony to mark the event On display was a T-33 and our first ship, a "B" model:

As you might be able to see, there are almost no access panel markings left. I asked a crew chief about this and he said that after a while, they would just stop putting on all but the most important markings, warnings and so on. Later I got a copy of the F-15 Crew Chief's Handbook that they could use if they needed to find a certain panel not marked. It not only shows how to do various things on the aircraft but also all the panel that normally would have been painted on a new ship.

I remember when J.A.S.D.F. got their first F-15s. They came into Kadena with only the tail numbers only and were taken straight into a hanger and closed off. When they came back out they had their national markings added. I was planning to go out a get a better look but they went directly to the runway and left.

I transferred my A model to the 318th from Langley, from what I have bee told my A model went to Minot after that. Alas she's in the bow yard from what I have been told.....

I have a few copies of the Crew Chief Handbook, excellent reference, but most defiantly can't be used on the jet as most the info was outdated...

When I was stationed at Kadena I had a chance to do an exchange and work with the JASDF, a most enjoyable experience...

[ikar]

What was your ship's tail number?

When I was there I spent a few years in the wing scheduling office where we picked up a J.A.S.D.F. liason officer. He came in handy when we had multi-nation exercises or they wanted to use our ranges or we had to create a new one. When I left he got me a hat from his squadron, the 302nd. He was a good guy.

[Ol Crew Dog]

What was your ship's tail number?

When I was there I spent a few years in the wing scheduling office where we picked up a J.A.S.D.F. liason officer. He came in handy when we had multi-nation exercises or they wanted to use our ranges or we had to create a new one. When I left he got me a hat from his squadron, the 302nd. He was a good guy.

My A model was 76-0057, when that one left Langley I got a brand new C model 82-0019 in the 27th fresh from the factory, only 11 hours on that one she had white dots all over (QA stickers to show that the panels were inspected)every panel had a dot but no number, that's when I noticed no panel numbers and information placards (well much less then my A model).

It went to the 318th then to Minot, she is now from what I am told in the bone yard.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Ol Crew Dog