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KursadA

1/48 YF-23 decals

143 posts in this topic

Hahaha, No Vince, trust me... Its a disorder that only brings pain and stress and anguish upon those of us who suffer it.

Like this build - it started with "Yeah, I'll just plonk a aftermarket seat in (as the kit one is well iffy) and some proper F-18 Wheels on it and call it done..."; then it evolved into "...well the exhaust tiles are an easy fix, so i'll go those too!". Then I discovered how nice the main gear bays were (I enjoyed painting those us) and that I can correct most of that issue by sliding the main gear bays back 2-3mm and building the refuel points in front of the main gear. Then, while sorting things out for the new seat, I noticed how 'empty' the underside of the canopy was and how totally woeful behind the seat was and thought I'd make a few 'small corrections' in there too.

Next thing I know I am glueing strips inside the fuselage halves, so I can re-contour the upper surfaces, filling holes in the lower half and mapping out where the multitude of vents, holes and antennae go and finally trying to figure out the best way to correct the main weapons bay doors....

It just gets out of hand REALLY FAST!!! :(/>

Dan

Edited by Zaggy

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Received my decals and they look great!

Now I have to decide if I'll break down and buy the kit...

I may end up hitting you up for a big batch of 1/32 sheets if I ever get around to finishing her up.

...but PAV-2 had its ECS in a totally different place

Where did you get this info?

From everything I've seen the cockpits are almost identical including the ECS system.

Unfortunately PAV-2s canopy was already wasted when I went on my big photo-shoot so I didn't get pics of the cockpit.

:cheers:

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Received my decals and they look great!

Now I have to decide if I'll break down and buy the kit...

I may end up hitting you up for a big batch of 1/32 sheets if I ever get around to finishing her up.

Where did you get this info?

From everything I've seen the cockpits are almost identical including the ECS system.

Unfortunately PAV-2s canopy was already wasted when I went on my big photo-shoot so I didn't get pics of the cockpit.

:cheers:/>

I believe they are in front landing gear bay.

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The first batch of 1/48 YF-23 sheets has been sold out today.

I only have enough at hand to ship the orders of everyone who has ordered as of now (Dec 24, GMT 4:20AM). I will not disable the ordering link, though - a new batch for resellers will arrive within a few days, and I expect around 100 more to be available for ordering direct from me. The rest will go to the resellers.

Thanks for your tremendous interest in this item! And if you have not received your decals yet, please be a bit patient - I still have more than a hundred orders (mostly multi-sheet orders including the A-1E and F-4C sheets) to pack, and with Christmas/New Year preparations it's going a bit slowly. You will get your mailing notifications soon.

Edited by KursadA

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...but PAV-2 had its ECS in a totally different place

Where did you get this info?

From everything I've seen the cockpits are almost identical including the ECS system.

Unfortunately PAV-2s canopy was already wasted when I went on my big photo-shoot so I didn't get pics of the cockpit.

:cheers:/>

If I remember correctly, yf-23.net - and also if I remember right, in a video of Dave Maurice servicing PAV-2, the ECS on that jet was either IN the weapons bay on the front wall or accessed through the weapons bay front wall. Bummer about PAV=2's canopy being shot before you could get pics :( You don't by chance have anything of PAV-1 behind the seat (as well as the underside of the canopy frame)?

Both PAV-1 and PAV-2 had the Saftey Dump Valve and Pressure Reg's behind the seat (which as per descriptions supposed looked like two 'helmet sized', Black, R2-D2's - but as per the YF-23 Drawings, the ECS is shown deep in the jet, on the Fwd Side of the Rear Cockpit/Canopy Hinge/Front Weapons Bay bulkhead. PAV-1 has a different ECS (that I think came from an FA-18A?) that looks like a big Dustbin to the Left Rear of the seat next to the Pressure Reg. On the F-23 the ECS was to return to the area directly behind the seat.

Actually, on the subject of the progress, I have come to realise that large area's will not be visible - the 'rear bay' appears not to be pressurised, as we can see the cockpit seal on the canopy, coming across behind the Dump Valve and Pressure Reg, suggesting a solid 'shelf'across there. So that, combined with the PAV-1 image and YF-23 drawings, pretty much completes the basic picture and reveal not as much will be visible as I first thought :) The next big job is the Canopy Framing - with all those compound curves, that will be slow going.

On that note, does anyone (like Zacto?) have a technique for that? I'm thinking the best way to start will be Masking Tape - stick on, trace around the key area's, stick onto plastic and cut out.

Dan

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The first batch of 1/48 YF-23 sheets has been sold out today.

:yahoo:

Congrats on making such a successful product!

Thanks for your tremendous interest in this item!

Thanks for making them!

If I remember correctly, yf-23.net - and also if I remember right, in a video of Dave Maurice servicing PAV-2, the ECS on that jet was either IN the weapons bay on the front wall or accessed through the weapons bay front wall. Bummer about PAV=2's canopy being shot before you could get pics :(/> You don't by chance have anything of PAV-1 behind the seat (as well as the underside of the canopy frame)?

Both PAV-1 and PAV-2 had the Saftey Dump Valve and Pressure Reg's behind the seat (which as per descriptions supposed looked like two 'helmet sized', Black, R2-D2's - but as per the YF-23 Drawings, the ECS is shown deep in the jet, on the Fwd Side of the Rear Cockpit/Canopy Hinge/Front Weapons Bay bulkhead. PAV-1 has a different ECS (that I think came from an FA-18A?) that looks like a big Dustbin to the Left Rear of the seat next to the Pressure Reg. On the F-23 the ECS was to return to the area directly behind the seat.

Actually, on the subject of the progress, I have come to realise that large area's will not be visible - the 'rear bay' appears not to be pressurised, as we can see the cockpit seal on the canopy, coming across behind the Dump Valve and Pressure Reg, suggesting a solid 'shelf'across there. So that, combined with the PAV-1 image and YF-23 drawings, pretty much completes the basic picture and reveal not as much will be visible as I first thought :)/> The next big job is the Canopy Framing - with all those compound curves, that will be slow going.

On that note, does anyone (like Zacto?) have a technique for that? I'm thinking the best way to start will be Masking Tape - stick on, trace around the key area's, stick onto plastic and cut out.

Dan

It’s Christmas time so here are a couple of pics behind the seat of PAV-1 (you’ll note that the details are different than the drawings...).

PAV-1_behind_seat_1_zpsc73e30c6.jpg

PAV-1_behind_seat_2_zpse59c3713.jpg

I can say that PAV-2 does have the same components including the larger black cylinder with the gray mesh on the left side (it can be seen on PAV-2 at 38.33 mark in the YF-23 declassified video).

As for what is going on in the bay beneath the rear coaming, PAV-2 does at least have the large tube going to the ECS exhaust, so I’d assume that the ECS unit is installed in there too.

I do see that YF-23.net says that PAV-2 had the ECS in the weapons bay, but I’m wondering where that info came from.

Yes the photos of PAV-2s weapons bay have equipment located at the forward end, but can anyone verify that that is ECS related?

You mention a video of Dave Maurice servicing PAV-2. Can you steer me to a link? I’d love to see it.

As for how to fabricate the framing, the masking tape method is one way. You might even be able to just flex and bend strip styrene and shave it to fit. It’s one of those modeling things that you just need to take a stab at to figure out how best to do it. Good luck with it!

I believe they are in front landing gear bay.

The front gear bays were almost identical. PAV-2 had an orange wiring harness on the right side that wasn’t there on PAV-1. From what I was told this related to test equipment that PAV-2 had installed in the weapons bay.

:cheers:

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Its Christmas time so here are a couple of pics behind the seat of PAV-1 (youll note that the details are different than the drawings...).

I can say that PAV-2 does have the same components including the larger black cylinder with the gray mesh on the left side (it can be seen on PAV-2 at 38.33 mark in the YF-23 declassified video).

Woah, Zacto! THANKS...that is sh|t hot! :) And to be honest, a very different configuration to what I had expected! So to ask the question is, is the Big Black/Grey Mesh thing ACTUALLY part of the ECS then? Or is it the Pressure Reg or something like that?

As for what is going on in the bay beneath the rear coaming, PAV-2 does at least have the large tube going to the ECS exhaust, so Id assume that the ECS unit is installed in there too.

I've read of this tube, but which tube is it? I've not been able to specifically identify that

I do see that YF-23.net says that PAV-2 had the ECS in the weapons bay, but Im wondering where that info came from.

Yes the photos of PAV-2s weapons bay have equipment located at the forward end, but can anyone verify that that is ECS related?

Yeah, I'm not convinced the ECS is in the weapons bay either - there is some sort of Red Painted, Pipe and Cylindrical 'thing' in the front-top of the bay however. I still feel its probably in the big bay behind the cockpit, where it would be easier to route things to the vent. If the ECS was in the Weapons Bay, you'd need to route through a whole lot more of the a/c to get to the vent, which doesn't make sense. And in hind sight, neither does my statement about the ECS being accessible from the Weapons Bay - you'd have the same problem with routing.

Re: PAV-2 Weapons Bay, as you say, there was instrumentation fitted in here, as we can see little holes/ports appearing at times in it (ie, two round, in-line on the LH door and MAYBE a larger square 'something' on the RH door) - I dont know if they were there from Day One however? And no idea what the instrumentation was for either.

You mention a video of Dave Maurice servicing PAV-2. Can you steer me to a link? Id love to see it.

Yeah, this is the UNCLASS YF-23 video (which I now must find again to look for more PAV-2 clues) that you mention (from memory - I havent seen it in a while myself) - the one that have a few screen grabs on yf23.net of Dave Maurice ducking into the weapons bay?

I'm going to have to go back and dig through stuff for this - alas where I am right now, I'm stuck on SLOW net, thus next time I get near Net that works at a decent speed, I'll see if I can find it again! Sounds like I need to review that video anyway!

Cheers for the pics Zacto - they're awesome help! :)

Dan

Addendum - crap... I've just noticed how crap the Intake Shape is too, after looking at the drawings for something totally different. From front on the shape looks decent, but from perpendicular, the outer-lower corner needs to be cut away (so that the inner wall and 'bottom' of the intake is aligned with the leading edge).

Rapidly getting to the point where I am thinking about just putting this away as too much work! I can live with the main gear bays being in the wrong spot and the other less noticable errors, but Christ; with the aircraft on display, the plans in the public domain (and the F-23EMD and the NATF and etc) and the amount of images of the exterior of the jet, how'd HobbyBoss get parts of it just SOOO wrong?

Edited by Zaggy

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Can we see some builds now? Please?

The owners of the first two YF-23 builds using Caracal decals to be posted (and completed) in the Work In-Progress, Critique Corner or Display Case here on ARC will get a free decal sheet of their choice.(just contact me via e-mail or PM when done).

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I'm stuck on the intakes - not 100% sure what to do. Cutting them to the correct angles is going to seriously screw up the trunking - which I am thinking ATM, could be corrected by tacking the lower trunk in place on the bottom half of the fuselage, then just working it (and a lot of sheet plastic/filler) to shape before bonding to the top half of the trunk and continuing; BUT this brings up the issue of the compressor face. As is, the kit avoid's the one small 'angle' from which the compressor face is visible with the intake error; cutting the intake back will expose the 'blank' end of the trunk. Need to see what parts of the compressor are visible and if I have a spare face laying round (maybe its time to recycle an OLD F-16 and just cut the face in half - one half for each side?).

A few more days of thinking probably, while I prep this Ta 183 for paint...

D

Edited by Zaggy

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Can we see some builds now? Please?

The owners of the first two YF-23 builds using Caracal decals to be posted (and completed) in the Work In-Progress, Critique Corner or Display Case here on ARC will get a free decal sheet of their choice.(just contact me via e-mail or PM when done).

Great offer. I'm still waiting on mine to arrive from China. So, I doubt I'd be in the running… plus I'm a slow builder.

Rodney

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Sounds like Zacto is getting inspired, hint hint. ;)/> This is what happens when someone has the balls to go out on a limb. Khursad has taken a risk, but in so doing, is generating a whole new pool of enthusiasm, and has reaped the benefits. (I still think he should do a 1/144 sheet). Someone will come out with update parts for the YF-23 sooner or later, and the domino effect will continue. I agree that the Hobby Boss kit is a load of crap shapewise, I can't believe how badly they can screw up, it looks like a 1st year college kid's CAD assignment what went horribly wrong.

Edited by supacruze

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My 1/48 sheet arrived today, first impressions are good. I will post a comprehensive review of this sheet on my site in a week or so.

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Re ECS: my documentation includes NB 92-115 which was the NASA proposal. The ECS system is shown between FS 352.64 and 367, below the cockpit sill line and at the same level as the rudder pedals; therefore it is out of site even when the canopy is open. The 2 black R2 units are not shown in the dwgs and I have never been able to determine precisely what they were. Admittedly the dwgs only show PAV-1's config, not PAV-2, so my interpretation of the equipment shown in PAV-2's weapons bay was an educated guess based on the resemblance of that equipment to the dwg for PAV-1's ECS. It is entirely possible that PAV-2's ECS was relocated to the weapons bay despite the inconvenience of different ducting requirements.A vent on the starboard weapons bay door reinforces this idea. The space allocated to PAV-1's ECS may have needed for something else on PAV-2.

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My sheet arrived today, 12 days to Melbourne, Australia. Looks good :)

It looks like there are enough decals to build two complete kits, is that the case?

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It looks like Hannants almost sold out its entire shipment in a day (the 1/48 sheet is one of their top selling items for the week, and it's only been available since yesterday). It sold out at Sprue Bros in less than a week as well. I will send them new shipments this week.

Edited by KursadA

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Congrats mate - was that your SECOND run of Decals?

Dan

Edited by Zaggy

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Congrats mate - was that your SECOND run of Decals?

No, the first run was extended after getting orders from the resellers. The 300 that I allocated for individual orders is long gone. The resellers' allocation will probably completely sell out in the next two weeks as they reorder, and then this will likely be it for the 1/48 YF-23 sheet.

Edited by KursadA

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Well, since people have started to show finished models (shame the above wasnt finished as PAV-2, considering the GE-donks!), I thought I'd share my on going thoughts and attempts to correct this thing to at least LOOKING right.

I HAD to have some time away from this thing, because it was soul-crushing (despite the awesomness of the Caracal decals - without which I think I can honestly say, I would NOT have come back to the kit!) being so awesome in some places and utter RUBBISH in others. Thus, while I set about filling the 'weird buldges' in front of the engine nacelles on the top and having fixed (as best I can) the location of where the main gear bays will go has been sorted (the upper half will still need just a little snading work to make these fit snug), the extra set (redundant and incorrect) of Air Turbine Starter vents have been filled and the intakes have been marked out.

Despite the size of the kit (over 45cm long) there is a DAUNTING amount of plastic to go here! See -->

intakes_1.jpg

The blue tape, in conjunction with datum lines and measurements on the Northrop drawings, transfered to the model, were used to make sure the planform alignment of the intakes is as closely retained as I can get. Its not perfect, but the pruple shaded area represents the MINIMUM to remove, leaving myself about 0.5-1.0mm in places to file down SLOWLY... ;) The next shots illustrate just how WRONG HB got it - note the planform alignment with the leading edge!

intakes_2.jpg

...and...

intakes_3.jpg

Now you'll also see black marker; thats my 'roughing out by eye' colour, showing how far after the kit weapons bay is in relation to wear it should be! The Kit bay looks like its where the EMD F-23 Rear Bay would have gone! The following also shows what else is being mapped out (and the filled 'holes' that should never have been there!

lower_1.jpg

These 'Air Turbine Starter Vents' that were filled were actually just panels on the a/c that happened to be the same shape as the Air Turbine Starter Vents, but because of the gear fitted to them, were removed after the fly off. The RIGHT side 'hole' was actually the mounting panel for the IFF Blade, the LEFT hole was a telemetry antennae - obviously these are now WHITE fresh plastic :) The real 'Air Turbine Starter Vents' (size black dots) arent quite in the right place, but moving them would be too much of a hassle - I think... But that leads to other issues; like the ECS Auxiliary Scoop has been nudged rearwards as has the APU Head Exchanger (?) vents. I don't THINK this will be noticeable.

The misplace Main gear openings caused the original Drain Vents to the be placed too far outboard, but there now pretty close to where I want them. Just beyond the left edge of the image will be the UHF/TACAN Antennae, which will require some re-engraving as it was set in a distinctive hexagonal panel. There is also supposed to be a C-Band beacon Blade in front of this, that I havent yet looked too hard into and finally behind the TACAN and offset left, that the Fuel Dump will be drilled.

The upper half is a bit better with the ECS Exhaust and APU Exhaust panels (deep between the nacelles) actuall present in very nearly the right place. Main hassle with the upper half will be the weird bumps that we've talked about and MAYBE the 'hollows' outboard of them - then we need a new Telemetry Blade on the Right and C-Band Blade on the Left nacelles (that look a lot like ROVER blades); one thing at a time though on each major part. Intakes on the bottom, bumps on the top.

To be fair, if I can get the intakes and the 'hollows' looking right, its going to look pretty good - I have yet to lay the wings and tails out against the Northrop Drawings, but the plaform sits quite well within the outline. Nose could be better, but If all this runs smooth, I am thinking I could actually enjoy this... It wont be the perfect outline, but unless Zacto releases his AMAZING 1:32 kit, I kind of want the best looking YF-23 I can build.

Dan

Edited by Zaggy

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Oh and the plan for the intake trunks into cut the 'blank end off' top and bottom, put the main gear bays in (so I know I can clear them), cut the BOTTOM half of the intake channel about 1.0cm short and just fill with plastic card and shape! Once thats done, attach the top half which should be much easier to shape, want to throw the thing across the room (which often happens working on Intake ducts), drizzle thinned 'Mr Surfacer' down the trunks (to sort of fair over most of the scratches and joins, paint the trunks, then fit HALF an F-16 F100 compressor face to each trunk (images show you can only really see about 1/4 of the face anyway from very specific angles)...

This is going to take a while... But I MUST finish it... I have an EA-7L that I want to make from a Bargain Hasegawa A-7E I picked up - probably less work that fixing the TA-7C that 'brand that we shall not mention' offer.

OK, thats me... Back to be tortured by AMS - ANAL Modeler Syndrome.

Dan

Addendum - I must admit to also being concerned now as to the fit of the Caracal Boundary Layer - I think it'll work. If not, I'll scan some images of the actuall boundary layer panel and print them up as decals. Much easier to attach than if I chose to Etch them. And I also have some AWESOME North Star FA-18 Wheels for this thing too...

Edited by Zaggy

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Question about the GE YF120 - ENGINE DIAMETER at the front and the back? About the same as the F100-PW and F110-GE?????

ANSWERED MY OWN QUESTION after some math and looking at the drawings and masking taking a heap of stuff up - the hardest part will be manufacturing the transition from the Oblong to the Round Afterburner section! Bigger to Smaller and Smaller to Bigger (Box to Circle) externals are quite easy, but this is slightly more complex in that its an INTERNAL and the top and bottom sets of corners have to be set differently.... I like a challenge! :)

While I'm slowly working away at the exterior (currently kind of scared to go cutting those intakes back - waiting on some new Cut of Wheels for the dremel as I seem to have run out!) - I'm reworking the 'boxy' section and have lined the bottom of it with some 5-thou corrougations (actually the perfect distance a part and then came from.....the plastic tray from a packet of German Biscuits - Deutschland, Deutschland, über alles! Not going to worry about the top as you really wont be able to see it with the nozzle flap relaxed) - next is to 'deepen' the back of the motor, because the kit afterbuner ring is i) the size of an F404 (FA-18) and ii) no where near deep enough.

Thus, to pile of broken, busted and never completed I went, finding the two Hase' F-16's (that I did 20 years ago) currently in the process of being gently broken down (need LE and TE flaps, some NOT bulged gear doors, the 'C' style gun port for a Block 15OCU, etc) and gently removed the rear of both F100's, thinking they'd be better than kit! F110's would have been better, but a PE after burner ring can disguise most of the 'PW-ness'

Now am I mistaken in the belief that the F119-PW and YF120-GE cores were essentially the same diameters as the F100-PW and F110-GE? The F100 Back-End just looks a little big; I know the engine centreline is NOT aligned with the centre (by diagonal intersection) of the Nozzle Box on the -23 (see pic)

Dsc_6355.jpg

Maybe I should just quite the bitching and build? :)

Dan

Edited by Zaggy

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