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Introduction of CARC Paint - 1976?


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Interesting. The weird MERDC helo was an early Boeing mock-up for entry into the AAH helicopter gunship competition.

bo_aah.jpg

Gino,

You got it. More specifically it was the Boeing Vertol model 235. It wasn't selected for continuation in the AAH competition because it's engines ran hot (and it was by far the ugliest entry). Now back to the regularly scheduled CARC thread!

Ray

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As far as "aircraft green", I'm backtracking through docs - I have a TB 746-93-2 (10AUG78) and when I look in the standard camo paint scheme (chapter 4) it says paint in "aircraft green" for helos, with a MIL standard of MIL-L-46159. I looked that up, and it was first published 13JAN73. That standard is for "aircraft green" and black only, and the colors do not correspond to FS 595. The TB says the smoothest finish possible with this paint corresponds to 600 grit sandpaper. The formula for aircraft green is (by weight):

yellow iron oxide 14.9%

red iron oxide 2%

black iron oxide 7.8%

carbon black 3.1.%

2 kinds of silica 68.8%

montmorillonite 1.4%

The TB also says that a/c previously painted with paints under MIL-L-19538 will be converted to the new standard. But for fixed-wing, it stays with MIL-L-19538. Nowhere do I see a 34031 mentioned. I'm working through a boatload of MIL standards - it's unreal how many there are just for Army aircraft paints alone.

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

I could have sworn that I saw some pics of late war Army helos in "Aircraft Green" yet your TB is dated January of '73. On a semi-related note, some late war Cobras with the toilet bowl mod also had black paint applied around selected areas of the cockpit, doghouse, etc. Was this an anti-IR missile mod or just personnel markings applied by the crew? If this was an ASE modification, any specifics on the paint and also any info on whether it was ever applied to Hueys or other Army helos?

Edited by 11bee
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John,

YOu have way more patience than me, my friend! I don't want to get the thread too far afield again but I thought it night be instructive for others to see the MERDC schemes. Here it is one a AH-1G, UH-1C and OH-58A.

Ray

Cammo005_zps4e7dd0b0.jpg

AH-10151_1280x854_zpsc5f98605.jpg

Cammo002small_zpse42cf2eb.jpg

Cammo007_zps253b7de8.jpg

Just for grins and giggles, here's one in MERDC with an OD(I think)cobra that I'm betting most members won't know. I'll leave it a mystery and see if anyone knows what it is.

AH-1GandBoeingAAHproposal_zps04da0a9e.jpg

I believe the top four photos were all taken at Ft. Hood.

The AH-1G in the top photo appears to be either at Hood AAF or the FARRP that was just east of Hood AAF. I think this is a 2AD bird.

The second photo AH-1G was one of the initial batch of aircraft used for the MERDC tests at Hood and the photo was taken for the Phase 1 MERDC reports for Project MASSTER. Probably also a 2AD bird.

The third photo shows a UH-1C of the III Corps Flight Detachment on the ramp at either Hood AAF or Robert Gray AAF (it's hard to tell). This is the slightly darker MERDC paint scheme I was talking about earlier. Of interest also is that the blades are in MERDC. This photo is also one was that was taken as part of the MASSTER/MERDC Phase 1 testing - the photo in the test report is from a slightly different angle. When I was at Hood the detachment had transitioned to UH-1Hs, and they had the exact same paint scheme, with narrow gray undersides. It is possible that the III Corps a/c were darker due to their being waxed but I'm not sure about that. They had a shinier look than the standard MERDC.

The fourth photo is of an OH-58A and again is at Hood and is probably a 2AD bird. The cloth covering the glass was either locally painted or locally procured, often being the "duck hunter" pattern. The MASSTER report allows for canvas painted with MERDC paints.

The original MERDC patterns used for testing were very regular and uniform across aircraft, with an allowable 1-inch variance. When MERDC was more widely used it was much more variable. This is another area of Army aircraft paint schemes that has not been well documented. The colors used (at least for the initial testing in 1972 and 73) were Forest Green 34079, Field Drab 30118, Sand 30277, and Black 37038. The MASSTER/MERDC report indicates that 54 aircraft were painted in MERDC in the initial tests, with the first ones being done at Ft. Belvoir and taken to Ft. Hood. The later ones were painted on-site.

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

Edited by FM-Whip
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I could have sworn that I saw some pics of late war Army helos in "Aircraft Green" yet your TB is dated January of '73. On a semi-related note, some late war Cobras with the toilet bowl mod also had black paint applied around selected areas of the cockpit, doghouse, etc. Was this an anti-IR missile mod or just personnel markings applied by the crew? If this was an ASE modification, any specifics on the paint and also any info on whether it was ever applied to Hueys or other Army helos?

The black around the Cobra canopies was a crewchief applied extension of the black anti glare panel on the nose. On the other hand,the black painted on the engine exhaust cowl may have been there for a specific reason. Perhaps Gary can weigh in on this as he was crewing Cobras in the late time period. And things did happen prior to additions to TB's or TM's. ACTIV could approve anything in advance of official publication in TB or TM. Things had to be tried out and shown to be effective.

Chris M

Edited by Chief Snake
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The black around the Cobra canopies was a crewchief applied extension of the black anti glare panel on the nose. On the other hand,the black painted on the engine exhaust cowl may have been there for a specific reason. Perhaps Gary can weigh in on this as he was crewing Cobras in the late time period. And things did happen prior to additions to TB's or TM's. ACTIV could approve anything in advance of official publication in TB or TM. Things had to be tried out and shown to be effective.

Chris M

I'm pretty sure the black on the top of the tailboom was applied simply because exhaust stained the tailboom black anyway pretty quickly. At least I have always assumed that is the reason for the balck on the tailboom on the white UH-1V at Flatiron (see photo in above post).

Ray

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  • 4 weeks later...

So now we know pretty much around when CARC began to be used Army-wide. The mystery for me is when 34031 came along to be used for aircraft.

As Chris Miller has said, there's some sketchy evidence as to the use of IR-reducing paint as a response to the use of SA-7s in SEA, circa 1970 and possibly earlier, and this same paint was also used in Europe because that was seen as a future battleground with the Warsaw Pact and the environment would have been heavy with MANPADs. It remains to be seen whether 34031 was a linear descendant of these early variants of IR-reducing coatings or is related in any way.

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

For whatever it's worth, here is a picture of a Huey circa 1970-1971. It does a great job of highlighting the "new" OD that was phased in around this time and the old color. The bullet hole adds a nice touch :)

http://www.281stahc.org/pictures/hardemanS/NewYearsEveCeaseFire.jpg

Thanks to Arkhunter for posting the link to this site, it's pretty interesting.

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While I would like to affirm what you are thinking, I cannot. In my experience as a maintainer that door is finished in a protective green that covered new parts. We often installed them prior to painting them because of time/need constraints. As soon as practical they got painted the correct color.

Chris M

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While I would like to affirm what you are thinking, I cannot. In my experience as a maintainer that door is finished in a protective green that covered new parts. We often installed them prior to painting them because of time/need constraints. As soon as practical they got painted the correct color.

Chris M

Oops.. Anyway, what do you think about the color of the helo itself? Still appears to be darker than the standard Vietnam-era OD.

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Oops.. Anyway, what do you think about the color of the helo itself? Still appears to be darker than the standard Vietnam-era OD.

You're right about the overall color. Batches of paint came from different makers and they didn't always "match". There was also the habit of crew chiefs to use Brasso on the surface paint, it changed the sheen and made the color look odd. And there's always the possibility that the paint was darkened with black or green drab at some point that the airframe was painted in maintenance.

Chris M

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Uhhh!, how ugly. It might look better if it had more digits? On it. What kind of theatre would that be best suited for?

Was that a A-Stan bird or Iraq?

Tim

It was a USMC reserve unit stationed in Pennsylvania. They had an Active Duty detachment in California. The unit served in Iraq, HMLA 775.

Chris M

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