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Camouflage Wars Part VII


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It seemed pretty comprehensive to me but hey, I am by no means an expert on the subject. If the MARPAT scheme works well against regular NVG's and thermals, than kudo's to the Corp - they nailed it!

NVGs are just a whole different can of worms as it is. A lot of the lighter desert patterns stand out better at night because they are primarily lighter in color, Combine this with relatively flat terrain its a light tone on a black background with a flat horizon line. Although pattern obviously plays a role, you need special dyes in the fabric to make it harder to see with NVGs. Even washing ACUs or MARPAT with detergents containing optical brighteners has an effect on NVG visibility. Its a lot more involved than just the pattern, which is one factor of many.

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  • 2 weeks later...

These guys are taking it to the next level.

http://gizmodo.com/taiwans-new-special-forces-uniforms-are-wearable-night-1456588256

"Wearable Nightmare Fuel".. I like it but think the effect would be enhanced if they armed these guys with chainsaws.

I saw costumes lke that in a movie once, they were always worn by the evil dudes..... :deadhorse1:

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  • 5 months later...

And the winner is........

Scorpion (basically Multicam with some very minor tweaks made so the Army could avoid paying licensing fees).

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/05/23/army-selects-new-camouflage-pattern.html?ESRC=eb.nl

I guess those naysayers who thought the Army would stick to ACUs were mistaken.

The only question I can think of is how long it will take to get the new stuff introduced. One would think that right off the bat, the Army could simply start issuing the remaining Multicam uniforms it has in inventory for ops in Afghanistan. On a related note, what happens to the troop's multicam uniforms when they return from Afghanistan? Do they turn in everything or get to keep it?

I know the Army has some pretty significant budget issues but I really hope this goes through. I truly think that ACU's put soldiers at risk. Just watching videos of guys in ACU's moving through your typical woodlands shows what the problem is. From a distance, the troops appear to be light grey and stand out like a sore thumb.

Anyone know if the new stuff in the pipeline (or the current Multicam uniforms) will be the same design as the ACU's (heavy material, velcro, etc) or something a bit more sensible?

Now we can all sit back and watch the Army continue it's proud tradition of mismatched uniforms / gear. I'm sure for many years we'll be seeing troops in Scorpion (I hate that name) uniforms with ACU pattern helmet covers, body armor, ammo pouches, etc.

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Good riddence to that army digital pattern. Worst camo ever? (Not the pixilated pattern but the color palette used. The Marines and Canadians made digital pixelated patterns work).

I wear the old woodland pattern hunting and it works well for me (Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota). I saw one dude out there in Army ACU and he stuck out as bad as blaze orange.

Edited by toadwbg
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The only question I can think of is how long it will take to get the new stuff introduced. One would think that right off the bat, the Army could simply start issuing the remaining Multicam uniforms it has in inventory for ops in Afghanistan. On a related note, what happens to the troop's multicam uniforms when they return from Afghanistan? Do they turn in everything or get to keep it?

No timelines have been announced, but to fully implement you're looking at years. The majority of the multicams issued are all the fire retardant versions and you keep them as they are on your CIF record. Some units had to return their kit and some didn't, but most of it you kept, it really became a pain in the butt with multicam as they required you to take all of it every time you went to RFI, so some of us have two or more full sets of multicam/kit ta-50.:bandhead2:/>/>

Anyone know if the new stuff in the pipeline (or the current Multicam uniforms) will be the same design as the ACU's (heavy material, velcro, etc) or something a bit more sensible?

Supposedly it will still be called the ACU as the pattern is UCP, multicam, or whatever they end up calling the new stuff. I read the other day the Army will be creating a lighter tropical version of the acu so who knows. Hopefully, it'll keep the current ACU pattern and features.

Now we can all sit back and watch the Army continue it's proud tradition of mismatched uniforms / gear. I'm sure for many years we'll be seeing troops in Scorpion (I hate that name) uniforms with ACU pattern helmet covers, body armor, ammo pouches, etc.

Mismatched Mondays are kind of a big deal, means your one day closer to Taco Tuesday.

1890982_1472261166322663_2032768685_n_zps75e68c3a.jpg

Edited by fulcrum1
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Some units had to return their kit and some didn't, but most of it you kept, it really became a pain in the butt with multicam as they required you to take all of it every time you went to RFI, so some of us have two or more full sets of multicam/kit ta-50.:bandhead2:/>/>/>

If you need any help in disposing of any of that multicam you have, please let me know and i will help rid you of it as I've been trying to get my hands on some of that for a while now.

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If you need any help in disposing of any of that multicam you have, please let me know and i will help rid you of it as I've been trying to get my hands on some of that for a while now.

If its just the pattern you want, Tru-Spec or Propper makes them in BDU style. I have a set I use for early spring Turkey hunts.

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  • 2 months later...

"Scorpion" uniforms to be on sale by next summer. I previously raised a concern about what the army was going to do with all the ACU pattern vests, ammo pouches, rucks, etc. Have no fear, the US Army has a plan:

The Army is seeking to over-dye existing Modular Lightweight Load carrying Equipment and Improved Outer Tactical Vests that are the digital Universal Camouflage Pattern to create a darker color that more closely matches coyote brown.

On June 20, the Army's program manager for soldier equipment posted a solicitation for industry partners that can over-dye nylon, cotton and rayon fabrics of various constructions.

To perform the dye work, the Army is seeking portable technologies that can be used outside of the manufacturing environment, suggesting the Army wants to save the cost of sending its equipment to manufacturers.

Sounds like the Coyote Brown "over-dyeing" will be done in-house, maybe they'll just give the troops handy dye packs so they can do it themselves.

This sounds like a plan fraught with potential problems.

I still am concerned about the Army's "one pattern works everywhere" approach. The new design seems pretty solid for use in jungles, wooded and semi-arid areas but for true desert environments, it seems like it will be lacking. I guess if we ever get into another war in a desert, the Army will issue sand-colored dye packs to the troops.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/01/army-announces-new-camo-uniforms/13453727/

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http://www.armytimes.com/article/20140731/NEWS07/307310083/UPDATE-New-images-show-details-new-Army-camo

I like it, and all the kit we've been using will work with it too. New PTs are coming with some units are already wearing them. 2015's going to cost me a few bucks,

Thanks for the link. Sounds like the Army is also developing a darker version for jungles and also a desert version. Anyone know if the new uniforms will be physically identical to the current ACU's or have they made any improvements?

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I do have to ask, since the Army is going to be dyeing all the ACU vests, rucks, etc Coyote Brown, what about all that stuff that is currently in Multicam for use in Afghanistan? That gear is pretty much a match for "Scorpion W2". Are they going to dye that stuff Coyote Brown for "purposes of uniformity" or keep it as is? Seems to me it would make more sense to leave it as is but since the Army loves uniformity, I wonder if they will end up dyeing it as well?

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I do have to ask, since the Army is going to be dyeing all the ACU vests, rucks, etc Coyote Brown, what about all that stuff that is currently in Multicam for use in Afghanistan? That gear is pretty much a match for "Scorpion W2". Are they going to dye that stuff Coyote Brown for "purposes of uniformity" or keep it as is? Seems to me it would make more sense to leave it as is but since the Army loves uniformity, I wonder if they will end up dyeing it as well?

Which of the two is the least expensive option? The Army will do the opposite.

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Thanks for the link. Sounds like the Army is also developing a darker version for jungles and also a desert version. Anyone know if the new uniforms will be physically identical to the current ACU's or have they made any improvements?

The ACUs have continually been improved over the past few years going away from velcro and moving to buttons and reinforcing parts near the crotch and knees. These new ones retain the past improvements and add subtle touches you can’t really see, but are welcomed. For instance the pockets on the arms have a velcro opening but this uniform now has it on the side of the pocket with a zipper like our combat shirts do. According to what’s been briefed they’ll still be called the ACU, it’s the UCP pattern that they’re doing away with. The multicams are ACU’s but it’s OCP even though we all call it mutlicam…..Army nonsense at its best. I’ve worn a ton of different uniforms and can say this should be the best uniform the Army’s ever made. I also expect the cut to be slightly different as some things look a bit different, but we’ll see this time next time year. As far as the desert and Jungle version, I don't know, I've just heard the same rumors as everyone else.

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I do have to ask, since the Army is going to be dyeing all the ACU vests, rucks, etc Coyote Brown, what about all that stuff that is currently in Multicam for use in Afghanistan? That gear is pretty much a match for "Scorpion W2". Are they going to dye that stuff Coyote Brown for "purposes of uniformity" or keep it as is? Seems to me it would make more sense to leave it as is but since the Army loves uniformity, I wonder if they will end up dyeing it as well?

That question was asked and with us still in Afghanistan the stock of current OCP will remain for service members deploying to the AO, however, this is the military. Chances are the most expensive and absolute worst way to implement will be the course of action taken. The SMA did say we would use both for awhile as the pattern was so close, but again, that makes too much sense for us to do.

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FTFA

The adoption of the new pattern brings the service's multi-year camouflage improvement effort to a close for now.

....all to arrive back at the same basic pattern and cut and features they were testing in the late 90s. Well done

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Not a whole heck of a lot different from the Woodlands Camo I have hanging in my closet from many moons ago. I guess its true when they say "if you hang onto your clothes long enough...they will eventually come back into style" :lol:

:cheers:

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Not a whole heck of a lot different from the Woodlands Camo I have hanging in my closet from many moons ago. I guess its true when they say "if you hang onto your clothes long enough...they will eventually come back into style" :lol:/>

:cheers:/>

I'm an ex-BDU guy and I think the new duds are a major step forward, both in regards to ability to camouflage the wearer and with the general features. My biggest gripe is that this is where the Army should have gone after they decided to phase out the BDU's. Skip the ACU crap, which in my opinion still warrants a congressional investigation into the selection process.

Questions for anyone who is familiar with this stuff -

Do the new uniforms have regular and light weight versions (like the old hot-weather BDU's) or just one uniform for all climates? Is the material fire-retardant or just a standard cotton / nylon blend?

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Do the new uniforms have regular and light weight versions (like the old hot-weather BDU's) or just one uniform for all climates? Is the material fire-retardant or just a standard cotton / nylon blend?

No one knows, there is supposed to be a jungle version and I would assume that would be lightweight along with the new light weight footwear coming out. Garrison uniforms won't be fire-retardant save for specific jobs while all deployed RFI uniforms are made of the FRACU stuff. Also, they are still revising certain things so I'd expect several changes before it hits the streets next summer. One thing to note that might be good for big Army is that much of the cold weather gear small Army has been using is being evaluated for Joe.

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....all to arrive back at the same basic pattern and cut and features they were testing in the late 90s. Well done

Pretty much, even though the cut is different. What the Army should be focusing on in this time of budget constraints, officer/nco sep boards, and the world on the edge of a pure freefall is a better dress uniform. I'd rock the hell out of this:

47761310424214-fb-09651-560x372.jpg

Edited by fulcrum1
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Pretty much, even though the cut is different. What the Army should be focusing on in this time of budget constraints, officer/nco sep boards, and the world on the edge of a pure freefall is a better dress uniform. I'd rock the hell out of this:

47761310424214-fb-09651-560x372.jpg

They will get to it after it they try a loathed magenta version first that they tell everyone is awesome, maybe 10 years and few billion later they get back to this^^ after admitting that whole thing was obviously idiotic.

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So, the reason they skipped-out on the purportedly superior brush pattern (other than cost) was?

Not sure which pattern you are referring to... If it's Multicam, they opted for the Scorpion pattern primarily due to cost since Multicam is patented and the Army would have to pay royalties to it's developer, while Scorpion (which tested nearly as well) is owned by the Army. Personally, I can't tell the difference between the two.

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