Camouflage Wars Part VII

[Horrido]

Somewhere in there is a comparison between MulitCam and Scorpion (I think it's best described as Scorpion having "fewer bird turds, no vertical".

http://www.hyperstealth.com/scorpion/

Desert All Over Brush:

http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/desertbrush3.jpg

[Don]

Desert All Over Brush:

http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/desertbrush3.jpg

Reminiscent of German World War II camouflage.

[fulcrum1]

That brush pattern looks stupid which defeats the almighty creed of the Soldier which clearly states that looking good is 9/10ths of the battle.

[Horrido]

Not being seen in brush pattern is considered worse than almost not being seen in bird turds? :P/>

[Exhausted]

Hey Fulcrum have the new uniforms (since the silver ones)made a noticeable improvement in the Army's fighting experience (victories, losses, tactical advantage, etc.)? Has the camouflage tipped the scales in a notable critical situation?

Edited August 10, 2014 by Exhausted

[toadwbg]

Hey Fulcrum have the new uniforms (since the silver ones)made a noticeable improvement in the Army's fighting experience (victories, losses, tactical advantage, etc.)? Has the camouflage tipped the scales in a notable critical situation?

Not sure if serious or a rhetorical question....but according to many testimonials from veterans, the Army's digital ACU has cost unnecessary lives. That is reason enough to change to something better.

Edited August 10, 2014 by toadwbg

[Exhausted]

I'm not sure how you how you arrived to your conclusion, but it's a good question that even the Army is going to ask. I'm looking for accounts from soldiers that have used both or field studies. Also, how has the new uniform hurt the Taliban since it made it into the field?

Edited August 10, 2014 by Exhausted

[fulcrum1]

Hey Fulcrum have the new uniforms (since the silver ones)made a noticeable improvement in the Army's fighting experience (victories, losses, tactical advantage, etc.)? Has the camouflage tipped the scales in a notable critical situation?

Of course. The American fighting man must look good while conducting combat operations. For the same reason we move faster and shoot better while wearing Oakleys and Arcteryx knee pads. It's a known fact that Mystery Ranch packs make you invincible, its like getting that shining star on Mario Brothers.

[fulcrum1]

I'm not sure how you how you arrived to your conclusion, but it's a good question that even the Army is going to ask. I'm looking for accounts from soldiers that have used both or field studies. Also, how has the new uniform hurt the Taliban since it made it into the field?

No one has done a field study. We could be wearing pink bunny suits out here and I'd wager we'd still see the same results. Camo doesn't matter as much as people think it does.

[Exhausted]

Can you route that pink bunny suits idea up the chain for Easter? :rolleyes:/>

Kidding aside, the asymmetric fighting styles between ISAF and the Taliban allies mean that ambush tactics will continue to reduce the benefit of the new camouflage. But the Army is right in seeking new ways to reduce the chance of detection for the coming fights. Maybe the old silver BDUs (forgive me, I'm not a soldier) would do nicely in the rocky regions near the arctic during certain seasons (Iceland, Japan, Norway, etc.)

Edited August 10, 2014 by Exhausted

[11bee]

And for some truly important news:

http://www.army.mil/article/131411/New_Army_PT_uniforms_result_of_Soldier_feedback/

I love this part, discussing the existing PT uniform:

They also had concerns with other things, particularly modesty issues with the shorts, especially in events like sit-ups. Those concerns were expressed by males as well as females.

The issue was of such concern that Soldiers were purchasing spandex-like under garments to wear beneath the trunks, Mortlock said.

I guess that's another way of saying that your stuff is hanging out when you're doing situps. Amazing that this was never caught before the uniform was fielded. Almost like the folks that designed the shorts never actually wore them for PT before putting them into mass production. Classic...

While the army is at it, they should get rid of that cheesy logo. Just doesn't work.

Edited August 12, 2014 by 11bee

[Tony Stark]

And for some truly important news:

http://www.army.mil/article/131411/New_Army_PT_uniforms_result_of_Soldier_feedback/

First the Army copies the USMC and Canada's uniforms, now they're copying the costumes of Seattle superheroes?

[TaiidanTomcat]

And for some truly important news:

http://www.army.mil/article/131411/New_Army_PT_uniforms_result_of_Soldier_feedback/

I love this part, discussing the existing PT uniform:

They also had concerns with other things, particularly modesty issues with the shorts, especially in events like sit-ups. Those concerns were expressed by males as well as females.

The issue was of such concern that Soldiers were purchasing spandex-like under garments to wear beneath the trunks, Mortlock said.

I guess that's another way of saying that your stuff is hanging out when you're doing situps. Amazing that this was never caught before the uniform was fielded. Almost like the folks that designed the shorts never actually wore them for PT before putting them into mass production. Classic...

While the army is at it, they should get rid of that cheesy logo. Just doesn't work.

I can say As a Marine I thought everyone wore shorts like that...

After all these pictures of Marines in short shorts, I offer these as a pallet cleanser

Edited August 12, 2014 by TaiidanTomcat

[Diamondback Six]

First the Army copies the USMC and Canada's uniforms, now they're copying the costumes of Seattle superheroes?

Least they ain't ripping off Iron Tech and infringing on THOSE patents/trademarks yet...

@TT:

"Short shorts: Because our grunts don't have ENOUGH things out there waiting to harm them, we need to add SUNBURN to the mix too."

Edited August 12, 2014 by Diamondback Six

[11bee]

I can say As a Marine I thought everyone wore shorts like that...

Leather PT shorts? Man, you jarheads really know how to party.

[Tony Stark]

Least they ain't ripping off Iron Tech and infringing on THOSE patents/trademarks yet...

[Tankcommander]

Gort Barada Nictoe.

TC

Edited August 13, 2014 by Tankcommander

[11bee]

Poor future grunts, let's keep adding more crap that they have to hump. What ever happened to "speed is life".

[Exhausted]

Leather PT shorts? Man, you jarheads really know how to party.

We call them 'silkies' and they were banned 3 and a half years ago by CMC General Amos. It was one of the first things he did as Commandant and certain Marines found the ban shocking and boring. I just remember everyone scrambling to find them before they left the PX.

[TaiidanTomcat]

We call them 'silkies' and they were banned 3 and a half years ago by CMC General Amos. It was one of the first things he did as Commandant and certain Marines found the ban shocking and boring. I just remember everyone scrambling to find them before they left the PX. :whistle:/>

Well back in the Old Corps we wore silkies.

They had their pluses

[TaiidanTomcat]

Not a whole heck of a lot different from the Woodlands Camo I have hanging in my closet from many moons ago. I guess its true when they say "if you hang onto your clothes long enough...they will eventually come back into style" :lol:/>

:cheers:/>

Just for comparison's sake:

ERDL (1960/70s still in use through the 1980s,) lead to

Woodland BDU

Scorpion 2. Subtle differences, but closer to old school ERDL in some ways (return to smaller blobs/little black)

[toadwbg]

Well back in the Old Corps we wore silkies. :salute:/>

They had their pluses

This picture gives me impure thoughts. I aporove....

[11bee]

Making progress...

http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/2015/04/03/army-issues-new-camo-deployers/25241363/

Still wondering about the merit of the "one pattern works anywhere" mindset. Whilst a huge improvement compared to the current pattern, looking at the pics of some troops deployed to Eastern Europe, the new OCP seems to be a bit too brownish. Maybe after another 5 billion is spent, the army will figure out that woodland BDU's work best for wooded areas and the DCU's work best for deserts?

Also, I found this statement to be a bit much:

Odierno also said the new camouflage uniforms are "cost neutral."

"The money we're spending on buying these uniforms will be the same as we spend on the new pattern," he said. "The costs are about the same."

Technically, he is correct but what he neglects to mention are the millions (billions?) that have to be spent on replacing all the ACU pattern rucks, ammo pouches, helmet covers, cold weather gear, plate carriers, etc, etc with the new pattern.

BTW, looking at the pics of hot Israeli girls above, I'm a bit curious about the way they strapped a spare magazine to the magazine in their M4's. Seems just a bit "hollywood". It'd be real easy to plug it full of dirt or damage the spare if you have to get prone in a hurry. No biggie, the whole concept of hot chicks with assault rifles still works well for me. Just a random observation....

Edited April 5, 2015 by 11bee

[ikar]

Back in my day it was so much simplier.

Stateside:

S.E.A.:

You could use the Stateside fatigues there if necessary but not the Jungle Green or cammies in the States.

[TaiidanTomcat]

BTW, looking at the pics of hot Israeli girls above, I'm a bit curious about the way they strapped a spare magazine to the magazine in their M4's. Seems just a bit "hollywood". It'd be real easy to plug it full of dirt or damage the spare if you have to get prone in a hurry. No biggie, the whole concept of hot chicks with assault rifles still works well for me. Just a random observation....

Since they carry their weapons everywhere at all times, and are barred from having them condition 3 in civilian areas, its not a "dual magazine" its a plastic insert part to keep the weapon condition 4 (IE no mag inserted) while simultaneously keeping the magazine handy. Its a safety device insert with a mag attached:

as for the camo thing Good luck to the army finally getting it right. The Marines are pulling for you. You can do it! Uniforms are highly complex things especially for soldiers, and this is super duper army strong level hard.