Koen L Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Try to explain that to the boss! :lol: (CNN) -- Help, I've landed and I can't take off.A Boeing Dreamlifter landed at the wrong airport in Wichita, Kansas -- one with a runway apparently too short for the mammoth cargo plane to take off from again. The Atlas Air 747 Dreamlifter is a beast of a plane. It's a modified 747-400 passenger airplane that can haul more cargo by volume than any airplane in the world. In fact, it's a plane that carries major assembly parts for other big planes, such as parts for the 787 Dreamliner from suppliers around the world to its assembly plant in Washington. Late Wednesday night, the plane, which was bound for McConnell Air Force Base from New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport, missed its mark by about 12 miles. It ended up at the much at the much-smaller Jabara Airport on Wichita's northeast side. Jabara has no control tower and normally doesn't handle jumbo jets. There was no damage to aircraft or airport, according to the City of Wichita which runs the airport. But there was a hitch: When fully loaded, the Dreamlifter needs a runway 9,199 feet long to take off, reports affiliate KWCH. The Jabara runway is 6,101 feet. What to do? What to do? Boeing sent a tug to the airport to move the jet. But, said the affiliate, it broke down on its way. http://edition.cnn.com/2013/11/21/travel/kansas-cargo-plane-wrong-airport/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bobski Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I suspect the pilot won't be allowed to forget that one for a while! As for getting the aircraft out again, presumably you'd give it just enough fuel to get to where it should have gone and then make the short hop... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Koen L Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) Here's an ATC soundclip: Edited November 21, 2013 by Koen L Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Koen L Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) A little screenshot from Google Maps to show the locations. So it looks like they were supposed to land at McConnell AFB (A), thought they accidentally landed at Beech Airport (B ) but in fact landed at Jabara Airport (C ). Some pics here: http://www.buzzfeed.com/passantino/massive-plane-mistakenly-lands-at-a-tiny-kansas-airport-and Edited November 21, 2013 by Koen L Quote Link to post Share on other sites
compressorman Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 The news seems to be making a big deal about this plane being 'trapped' here due to the short runway. Wouldnt they just need to offload some cargo or fuel as has been previously mentioned to make the plane light enough to use this short runway? I have no idea, just asking. Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gonzalo Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) The news seems to be making a big deal about this plane being 'trapped' here due to the short runway. Wouldnt they just need to offload some cargo or fuel as has been previously mentioned to make the plane light enough to use this short runway? I have no idea, just asking. Chris The aircraft is probably already empty, hence the tug. The tug is used to reposition the aircraft for takeoff probably because the taxiways or runway are to small for the airplane to turn around. The plane is probably picking up wings or a fuselage for the 787 then taking it somewhere else. A 747-400 at max power empty will have absolutely no problem taking off from that runway. Edited November 21, 2013 by gonzalo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Koen L Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 I assume it's just trapping other aircraft at the airport now, since it's blocking the runway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scotthldr Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Three airfields all within a very short distance of one another all with similar runway headings, is this the first time something like this has happened at McConnell? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheFlyingDutchman Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I wonder how this could have happened. Are ILS signals coded, so the crew can see that the signal actually is from the airport or the rynway they want to fly to? Or did they do a visual landing? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 The aircraft is probably already empty, hence the tug. The tug is used to reposition the aircraft for takeoff probably because the taxiways or runway are to small for the airplane to turn around. The plane is probably picking up wings or a fuselage for the 787 then taking it somewhere else. A 747-400 at max power empty will have absolutely no problem taking off from that runway. A quick search on the ever trustworthy wiki is showing runway lengths of ~ 6,000' - 10,000' as being required for a 747-400. Of course there are many variables that determine the take-off length, weight, engine thrust, weather conditions, etc. One thing to keep in mind is that this aircraft is a heavily modified -400 that is heavier and draggier than the standard passenger jet. So the numbers out there for a standard -400 won't apply. Hopefully for BA, they will be able to offload enough fuel and non-essential equipment to allow it to make it out of there. If not, BA is going to be in a world of hurt. These aircraft are crtical to keeping the 787 production line moving. Decades ago, a United DC-8 landed at the wrong airport. They had to offload the majority of it's fuel and take out every passenger seat to allow it to fly out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rank11 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I wonder how this could have happened. Are ILS signals coded, so the crew can see that the signal actually is from the airport or the rynway they want to fly to? Or did they do a visual landing? They were on a GPS approach. Yes ILS signals are identifiable. But no amount of coding is sufficient if the pilot just ignores the instruments and just visually lands on some runway out the front window. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Koen L Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 Looking at this NOTAM they expect it can take a while to get the thing out: !AAO 11/008 AAO AD AIRPORT CLSD 1311210347-1311272300CREATED: 21 Nov 2013 03:47:00 SOURCE: AAO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Looking at this NOTAM they expect it can take a while to get the thing out: I guess it sucks if you are based at this airport and have a need to fly. Those pilots are hopefully standing in the unemployment line this AM. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
falcon20driver Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I've flown some parts into Wichita before back when I was flying freight. Due to the numerous airports located in a close vicinity with similar layouts it is VERY easy to make this mistake, especially if it is a hazy or scuddy day. Normally you try and back up visual approaches with any instrument approach procedures that can help assure proper runway alignment, but they aren't always transmitting from the ground for many reasons. I feel bad for the captain because this is one of those things that rarely happen but has the potential to happen quite often. They'll just have to defuel it, and wait for the proper wind/temp conditions to get it off that runway and over to the other airport. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grey Ghost 531 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Didn't something exactly like this happen out in McDill/Tampa a couple of years ago? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 It's happened many, many times. A United DC-8 landed at Chicago Midway in the 1960s when he was going for O'Hare. I was flying just west of the Miami terminal area one (very clear, VFR) night in 1995, transiting northbound from the Keys to West Palm Beach. I heard a conversation between a South American cargo DC-8 pilot and MIA tower in which the DC-8 pilot was told that despite the fact he was reporting being on final to 9L at MIA was actually on final for Opa Locka (OPF), several miles to the north. How you could mistake MIA (which is lit up like a Christmas tree, with multiple parallel runways, etc, etc, and OPF, where the tower was closed and the airport operating as an uncontrolled field with minimal lighting, is utterly beyond me, but I heard it happen. MIA tower kept asking him to make shallow turns and flash his landing lights, but they kept not being able to see him. They finally asked him to change his transponder code, and that's when they figured out what he was doing. Let's just say English wasn't the guy's first language. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Didn't something exactly like this happen out in McDill/Tampa a couple of years ago? It happens more than one would expect. Can't believe some pilots are so complacent that they can't be bothered to cross check with other instruments prior to landing? Those guys/gals are lucky they landed on something that was unoccupied and had sufficient space to stop. Instead of being a national joke this AM, it could have easily been a tragedy. Does anyone know what the minimum runway length required for a lightweight 747 to take off from? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Does anyone know what the minimum runway length required for a lightweight 747 to take off from? There is no one number. And the 747 LCF Dreamlifter isn't exactly a standard 747 by any means. It's not particularly heavy if not loaded (air is pretty light). Everything I've read says Jabara has plenty of runway for them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) Interesting article in this month's >>> Boeing Frontiers <<< magazine about the Dreamlifter ... -Gregg Edited November 21, 2013 by GreyGhost Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ALF18 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 OMG. Talk about a screw-up. There have been some cases of aircraft landing at the wrong airport, more than the general public would like to know about. It all boils down to being on top of the situation, and double-checking everything. In the USA, there are many closely-located airports, like these 3 (Beech field, Col James Jabara, and McConnell AFB). I learned early on in my military flying career to NEVER assume I had the right airfield in sight unless the ILS or other instruments proved it to me. I've flown a couple flights out of Beech Field; during the production of simulators for the Harvard II (same thing as the USAF/USN Texan II with minor differences), I got to fly the prototype out of the factory's airfield). I clearly saw McConnell and the other airfield, and made sure that I cross-checked instruments to not go to the wrong one inadvertently. For those who wonder about this, here are some facts: -ILS (Instrument Landing System) has different frequencies and audio identifiers that distinguish each and every runway (not just airports) from each other one in a geographic area. Impossible to confuse them, unless you have entered the wrong number into the receiver (frequency). -Boeings like this one navigate using an FMS (Flight Management System) that contains a database of all airports, runways, and other significant aviation points in the areas they fly. If the airfield identifier is properly entered, the navigation system will ALWAYS point to the right airport. -Code for Beech is KBEC; Jabara is KAAO; McConnell is KIAB. As long as KIAB was entered into the nav system, the crew should have had indications to the correct airport. -In an FMS today, the most typical approach flown is area navigation/satellite navigation based; the recording suggested they were flying one of these. Even if no ILS is available, you can enter an airport and runway number, then select a visual approach to fly, and the system will guide you right to the runway, while flying visually (with reference to the ground). The only way they could have made this mistake was by ignoring instrument indications, or having entered incorrect information into the airport identifier in the FMS. Looks to be a probable case of human error (either data entry or ignoring navigation indications that conflicted with where they were going visually). Mistakes happen, but to me this one is a bit of an eyebrow raiser. ALF Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Weather might have been a factor too ... -Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
archybean Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I'll tell you what though, having spent half my morning up at Jabara this is quite the local event. I'm sitting in my car on the side of the road waiting for take off. There are so many other cars waiting here too. City police and state troopers are blocking close access, about the closest anyone can get is a mile away to stop and watch. The Dreamlifter is just a beast sitting there on the runway. The Tarmac isn't too far really away from Webb road and it just dwarfs everything. News reports say it's supposed to take off at noon local (which is now) but I'm not holding my breath Quote Link to post Share on other sites
archybean Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Weather might have been a factor too ... -Gregg Could be...it has been a low ceiling here since early evening yesterday Quote Link to post Share on other sites
viscount806x Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I suspect the pilot won't be allowed to forget that one for a while! As for getting the aircraft out again, presumably you'd give it just enough fuel to get to where it should have gone and then make the short hop... I'd lay bets that he is looking for a job by now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I'll tell you what though, having spent half my morning up at Jabara this is quite the local event. I'm sitting in my car on the side of the road waiting for take off. There are so many other cars waiting here too. City police and state troopers are blocking close access, about the closest anyone can get is a mile away to stop and watch. The Dreamlifter is just a beast sitting there on the runway. The Tarmac isn't too far really away from Webb road and it just dwarfs everything. News reports say it's supposed to take off at noon local (which is now) but I'm not holding my breath If you have the means, make sure you get some pics and post them up here. I know there are pics all over the media, but still. It'd be cool to see what you're seeing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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