"Missileers" are stressed

[11bee]

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/study-nuclear-force-feeling-burnout-work

To quote from the article:

One service member said: "We don't care if things go properly. We just don't want to get in trouble.

Maybe these poor guys and gals should trade places with a 19-year old Army or Marine infantryman in Afghanistan if they are so stressed at work. If a things don't "go properly" for a grunt over there, the consequences are a bit more severe.

LeMay must be turning over in his grave.

[Waco]

Maybe these poor guys and gals should trade places with a 19-year old Army or Marine infantryman in Afghanistan if they are so stressed at work. If a things don't "go properly" for a grunt over there, the consequences are a bit more severe.

Hardly a fair comparison, and not one that your average missileer would make themselves. And I don't know about "more severe," because the consequences of failing at our nuclear surety mission are pretty gosh darned severe for a whole heck of a lot of people. You're comparing apples to rocks here, and there are lots of different kinds of stress. I personally would NEVER want to be involved in the nuclear mission, because it's such a zero defect, zero deviation, "no mistake" enterprise. Plus sitting at the console that consigns millions (billions?) to death should you ever get the phone call has got to be psychologically intimidating.

As for LeMay...different time, different tools, different security portrait for the entire globe. In LeMay's day, nukes were the cutting edge, first choice weapon for virtually every standing operations plan. Everything was assumed to go nuclear on day 1. These days, as a nation, we struggle to find a mission for these things, but refuse to upgrade the systems, safety measures, or control systems to bring them to modern standards. But recognizing their potential, it still requires folks with a "zero defect" mentality to maintain them on constant operational readiness.

So yeah, I can believe the Strategic Missile force is feeling a bit out of sorts; stressed by the requirements of their duties, but with a vague generality that the nation has more or less sworn never to use them. An existential "why" as to what you do every day can burn you out pretty quickly.

[Kevan Vogler]

I sounds very much to me like the missile folks are feeling the stress that typically comes to anyone stuck in a job which is thankless, of waning relevance, very one dimensional and has few if any skills which are transferable to other career fields.

Considering that the average human being does like to know, at least from time to time, that what they do makes a tangible difference in the day to day lives of others; being stuck out of public view for long hours sealed underground in a capsule going through the movements for an event that you know is never going to occur will drive anyone to their psychological limits.

I changed careers about a decade ago. My last job in my previous career was in a printing company; it was repetitive, stultifying, of increasingly less relevance to the printing industry and of only modest connection to what I trained to do. Rarely did I get a "Thank you" for what I did and it got to the point where I was ready to smash my computer keyboard over my head out of frustration. I did that job for three years before changing careers to save my sanity.

My understanding is that the job I used to do has been totally automated through most of the printing industry since I left.

The job I do these days comes with stresses of its own, but I hear "Thank you" multiple times a day and I can't tell you how much that offsets the stresses.

I've learned never to underestimate the power of giving thanks to anyone who does something for you regardless of how small or trivial it seems in their eyes.

After reading that article, I can imagine how much a missile crew has to push themselves psychologically to even go to work. Knowing their job leaves them with few prospects to other work fields and knowing that all the drilling is for nothing as their career's heyday is over; I can just imagine them sitting at their work stations shift after shift saying to themselves "What the (expletive) am I doing here?!"

Humans are thinking creatures and, like any other thinking creature, tend to get a bit neurotic without enough psychological stimulation. The missile folks clearly aren't getting much of that stimulation.

[DutyCat]

Gimme a break. I read this and I kept thinking, "What a bunch of crybabies."

1. Re: "Preparing for a mission that will never happen." Well, that is the point of a nuclear deterrent force...never having to use them. The mission is as important as ever, especially with the potential proliferation of nuclear weapons among non traditional powers.

2. Almost every nation that maintains a nuclear capability is currently in the process of replacing or refurbishing legacy systems so that they remain in good condition.

3. What these guys do is not substantially different than what our SSBN force sailors do, except that these guys get to go home to their family after their shift, where as the SSBN sailor is deployed for 60 days at a stretch. The sailors aren't complaining about their job.

4. The current issue of AW&T has a huge section on nuclear forces worldwide. One article suggests that the Russians are increasingly incorporating tactical nuclear weapons into war plans as a firebreak against a perceived superiority in American/Western conventional forces.

5. And lastly......Military service is not about the individual's desire to have a personally rewarding experience. That is entitlement thinking. It is about duty and sacrifice for the greater good. "What is in it for me?" is not the correct mind set. It should be, "What can I personally do to ensure that my nation, my home town, and my family, are kept safe?" If you maintain or keep the watch with the most destructive weapons ever devised, you have been entrusted by your nation with a very important job, and the people of this country and your government are expecting you to meet that responsibility with dedicated purpose. Your job satisfaction is in knowing that by preparing for war, you are helping keep the peace. That should be enough. At least you are not being asked to storm the beaches at Normandy or clear the Viet Cong out of an booby trap infested village. Jeesh.

Edited November 24, 2013 by DutyCat

[fulcrum1]

Sounds like leadership needs a fixin. I did the AFROTC in college and when my eyes took a dump and lost any chance of a pilot's slot I tried to go the missile and space operations route. That lasted one trip down to Vandenberg, AFB and that was enough for me to say "hell no". Thankless, boring, no fulfillment, horrible duty stations, peers with chips on their shoulders, etc was enough for me to run as fast as possible. This was before 9/11 when I was young and dumb and glorified war. With that being said, I also know the feeling of being an officer and watching from the sidelines major engagements that our nation is fighting in and your duty is elsewhere on an equally important mission that no one cares about nor knows about. Frustrating.

[11bee]

I sounds very much to me like the missile folks are feeling the stress that typically comes to anyone stuck in a job which is thankless, of waning relevance, very one dimensional and has few if any skills which are transferable to other career fields.

My job was infantry. Some would say that many of the above comments would apply to my old profession. However, every day I put on my uniform and did my job to the best of my ability and took pride in myself. Still loved to complain (I think that is a common infantry trait) but never to the point that these people apparently are.

These men and women are commissioned officers officers in the United States Air Force. They need to suck it up and do their job. All that being said, my guess is that the rot starts at the top and maybe this is just another warning sign that the USAF has some serious leadership issues.

On a related note - the job can't be that complicated. Is there any chance that the AF could reduce the length of their commitment down to a single year and then let them train for another profession?

[Jennings]

I had the "opportunity" to go into the missile officer "career field" in 1983, and I told them thanks but no thanks. I'm so glad I did.

[yardbird78]

I spent 21 years in the enlisted ranks of the USAF with the first year being in school at Sheppard AFB, Texas. We studied basic electronics, advanced electronics and stuff unique to the guidance system on the Atlas F ICBM. My second year was spent with the 578th Strategic Missile Squadron at Dyess AFB, Texas, working maintenance in the guidance shop on base or out at whichever one of the 12 remote sites was having a problem. The five man launch crews (2 officers and 3 enlisted), were on duty 24 hours and off 72 hours. The guidance shop was split into two 8 hour shifts, 5 days per week with two men on standby each weekend.

- Near the end of that year at Dyess, the USAF announced the phase out of all Titan I and Atlas D, E & F ICBMs and that happened practically overnight. I was offered a choice of 3 assignments; remain at Dyess in the Security Police, stay in the missile field and go to Grand Forks, North Dakota, or go to Beale AFB with the then unknown SR-71. I had seen enough of the missile career field to know it was a dead end, thankless, etc job and I darn sure didn't want North Dakota, so that was out. I also didn't want to spend the next two years standing guard under the nose of an alert B-52, so I opted for the SR-71 program, even though I didn't have the faintest idea what that was.

- The year at Dyess gives me a personal insight into the problems discussed in the above article and I agree with most of it. There was a LOT of pride being in General Lemay's SAC that is missing in much of today's USAF, but the psychological problems of being on a missile crew have been the same for over 50 years. It is a unique job that has it's own unique problems and cannot be directly compared to any other job.

Darwin

[ST0RM]

I personally would NEVER want to be involved in the nuclear mission, because it's such a zero defect, zero deviation, "no mistake" enterprise.

Very happy that I no longer have to maintain my 8010 cert...

[ikar]

It was bad enough when I was around them from time to time as a fill in for a security guy on the flight line. A couple times I had to explain why I was taken off the P.R.P. program upon arrival at a new assignment or if the rare need arose for people to go to an emergency at a silo.

I remember when the 5th FIS started to get their new F-15s, many were happy to be rid of the nukes they used to carry in their 106s.

[Jinxter13]

Let's not be so quick to pass judgement, without knowing the total situation. How would one of us be, if it was us in their shoes. As for the guys on the ground I give you 4 letters PTSD; it's not from thinking about pushing buttons, I guarantee it.

[fulcrum1]

Everyone gets PTSD in one shape or another. I was taking a dump once at night on a FOB when it came under attack. I finished doing the deed and thought I was good to go in the pitch blackness of the portajon only to pull up my pants to feel the warmth of my misjudgment. From that point on I rock a headlamp when I gotta go at night....PTSD for ya! Being shot at, mortar'd, three VBIEDs, and one too close danger close JDAM ain't got nothing on the portajon incident.

[vince14]

Don't be so quick to judge - everyone suffers from stress at some point in their lives. It might be caused by a specific event, such as combat, or from witnessing a bad accident, or from financial woes. Or it can be caused by the gradual accumulation of everyday tasks - which is what gets most of us, and it's also why we take vacations - or the soul-crushing realisation that you're in a job which is highly technical, has very few transferable skills and is, ultimately, pointless.

Stress attacks in different ways in different people. We all know guys who think they're tough-as, but would crumble if put in a combat zone. But then again I know of combat veterans, people who were as cool as you like under fire, who are badly stressed out by having to sit an exam, or by having a job interview.

Vince

[fulcrum1]

My divorce was worse for me than anything I've been through in the military. Stress isn't the issue, it's how people deal with it. I talk about it, which brings me closure and the ability to move on, most importantly I pray and my faith gets me through. You need an outlet, could be anything as long as it's positive in nature. Too many people put what happened to them in a shoebox and store it away only for that box to get unopened at the wrong time and place later on in life. However, some people (Space/Missile OPS and UAV operators come to mind) need to quit feeling sorry for themselves and grow a set. Job may be frustrating, but you're getting paid far more than most for doing something which amounts to 24hr on 72hr off and checklists. No one is keeping them there when their obligation is done and they have the opportunity to change jobs as well after this period.

I think the article is digging for a story. Do the same study of company and junior field grades (any branch) working at the five sided funny house and you'd find the same thing if not worse.

[TaiidanTomcat]

One service member said: "We don't care if things go properly. We just don't want to get in trouble.

The regulations and inspections for nuclear forces are incredibly daunting and unforgiving. An entire base once failed because someone working at the hospital didn't pass up to the chain of command that they had cough syrup to fight a bug they caught. Seriously.

Maybe these poor guys and gals should trade places with a 19-year old Army or Marine infantryman in Afghanistan if they are so stressed at work. If a things don't "go properly" for a grunt over there, the consequences are a bit more severe.

More severe how? Does the 19 year old grunt have an ICBM in his pack?

I think you are taking this entire story out of context. Its a crappy job that burns people out and the study concluded exactly that:

It found a toxic mix of frustration and aggravation, heightened by a sense of being unappreciated, overworked, micromanaged and at constant risk of failure

.

Don't give them a hard time for having the audacity to participate in an anonymous study (RAND and nukes go waaaayy back) that frankly, contains information that needs to be discussed, but normally can't be out of fear of career termination. Any of those traits openly displayed can get you into serious trouble in that environment.Its not like they took out an add in the paper or ran crying to a reporter or anything. or spilled a bunch of secrets then fled to Russia, or got caught screwing their ghost writer, or took bribes.

[11bee]

More severe how? Does the 19 year old grunt have an ICBM in his pack?

Last I checked, not too many missileers are flying home minus a leg or in a bag. They have awesome nuclear responsibility but no more than some other folks currently serving in the military. Why don't we hear about boomer crews crying about their stress level? They certainly are under more severe working conditions than their AF brothers and sisters.

[TaiidanTomcat]

Last I checked, not too many missileers are flying home minus a leg or in a bag.

You seem to be confusing personal safety with massive responsibility for global annihilation. Nextly in nuclear forces, they don't play with blanks either. They are essentially on a war footing at all times. The ammo is always live and the stress is gnawing and constant.

Being a grunt though dangerous, is far more rewarding. And if we want to take any job and say "would you rather be a grunt in the stan!?" and dismiss everybody thats a lousy scale. There are jobs much worse than being a grunt in Afghanistan. I see what you are trying to say here but you just missed the mark.

(And yes I work with USAF personnel who served in montana before they lost limbs in afghanistan and they don't envy missileers, One female without a leg told me its "horrible,") If you have any questions you want me to ask them I can (One admin female-- lost leg, one security forces male-- lost arm below the elbow all fingers save 2 severe burns, and a huey pilot-- unwounded)

They have awesome nuclear responsibility but no more than some other folks currently serving in the military.

Why don't we hear about boomer crews crying about their stress level?

Have you researched it at all or are you just going with the "I havn't seen it, it doesn't exist" yardstick?

Submarines do more missions with more people (submariners also view them selves as critical, and elite) than just sitting at the bottom of the ocean and check their watches?

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=270117

Again, didn't see any "crying" in that report. Only the report uses the phrase burnout to describe what they are seeing, not the people themselves. If you were to make a recipe for one of the most miserable jobs in the world Missilier would have all the key ingredients. There is a huge difference (as others here have tried to explain to you, in vain it seems) with missiliers and all other nuclear jobs. There is no other real equivalent and its a crappy job.

They certainly are under more severe working conditions than their AF brothers and sisters.

true, and yet I don't know why you are so quick to show them the underside of a bus because you read a report and it offended your senses. I was far more offended when the UAV drivers were complaining about PTSD (and direct to the newspapers at that, and using big dramatic words)

[niart17]

I liken their jobs to being forced to work a toll booth on an abandoned interstate. And on top of that boredom, being told that if a car ever does actually drive by and they have to accept a real toll, the whole world is in fact going to explode. So yeah, their job probably sucks.

Bill

[11bee]

I dug up this old thread because I'm too lazy to start a new one just for a picture..  Say what you want about missile crew, some of them do have a sense of humor, albeit a pretty dark one.