P-47D Razorback cockpit question

[Waltz41]

I'm working on a 1/48th P-47D Razorback that I am planning to be a natural metal finish paint scheme. The area that is directly behind the cockpit, on the fuselage but under the cockpit glass (know what I'm talking about?)....I can't determine if it should be natural metal, interior green, or something else. Anyone know? Does it matter, did they vary? I did some checking online, and looks like modelers have done both. Tried looking also for some color P-47 pics in some of my books, and I can't come up with a definitive answer.

[zerosystem]

I think today's consensus says that the color is supposed to be the same color as the rest of the fuselage.

[Hal Marshman Sr]

Zero System is absolutely correct. On an NMF airplane, the look back area was also NMF. On an OD airplane, that area would be OD. I might add, if the flaps are down, the leading edge of the flaps are the same as the main body of the flaps. On the wing's underside, the area into which the flap retracts matches the bottom of the airplane. Things begin to change in the case of depot or field repaints. Wheel wells and gear cover innards are Yellow Zinc Chromate in all cases. On late -C, and -D, M, and -N birds, the cockpit interior is Dull Dark Green. Interior Green was only used on Curtiss made Jugs, just about all of which stayed stateside. Hal Sr

[Waltz41]

Thank you very much guys!

[Tbolt]

Be careful, although I agree completely with what Hal says, when he says a NMF aircraft, that's a factory produced NMF aircraft (starting at the D-21 block IIRC) - those that were painted over in the field will still have NMF in this area (unless they have been repaired and painted), such as 'Miss Behave' which was a D-22, just in case you come to do another aircraft.

So in the case of a NMF it's not a problem, what aircraft are you doing for interest?

Edited December 16, 2013 by Tbolt

[Hal Marshman Sr]

T-Bolt, thanks for the clarification. I mentioned repaints, but didn't want to cloud the waters any further with information overload. Miss Behave is a great example. Note she does not display NMF canopy framing, as in a great many cases the canopies were shoved forward and completely masked, resulting in NMF frames when the masking was removed. That particular Jug appears to have had the frames repainted also. Note the framing in the look back area, which is also NMF. Once you get into these repainted birds, it's almost always a case of "Select a bird", and chase down as much info as you can on that one. "Little Friends" is a great source for 8th AF fighter airplane pix on the net. Here again, in respect to repaints, each Air Force had its own repainting depots, and what might apply for the 8th, didn't for the 9th or 15th. certainly the Pacific Jugs were treated entirely differently. Another thing about repaints, it's wise not to assume that the bird has been done in OD over Neutral Gray. Those particular colors were not in great supply in the UK, but RAF paint supplies were plentiful, and that is what was used when orders came down from 8th AF Command to camouflage all the NMF airplanes. A lot of airplanes to repaint, and little time to spare doing it, certainly no time for niceties such as canopy framing. Much of that sort or embellishment was done at unit level. Thus, a B&W photo of a re-camouflaged airplane could very well be RAF Dark Green over Sky, or light or Medium Sea Gray. In many cases, such as the 56th FG's P-47Ms, the undersides were NMF.

As an example, the fairly well known Jug, Bell of Belmont was almost certainly RAF dark Green over NMF. The invasion stripes had however, been over sprayed with OD. The cowling exhibits the remnants of an OD anti glare panel, with RAF Dark Green on the sides, and a very pale gray on the bottom. I personally feel it's a replacement cowling. In addition, under the starboard wing she carries a 250 gal flat style drop tank in Neutral Gray, while the tank under the port wing is a metal 108 gal tank in pale gray. IIRC, she displays NMF canopy framing. Hal Sr

Edited December 16, 2013 by Hal Marshman Sr

[DonSS3]

Good stuff, as always, Hal. Thanks for sharing.

Edited December 17, 2013 by DonSS3

[Hal Marshman Sr]

You're most welcome Don. What good is keeping information to yourself, it must be shared, both for other folk's edification or for them to opine any differences they may have knowledge of. We all can learn from one another. Hal Sr

[DonSS3]

Amen, Hal.

[Hal Marshman Sr]

The sad thing Don, is in the past couple of weeks, at different modeling sites, I've seen about 3 absolutely P-47 masterful builds, so well painted and weathered it's unbelievable, plus a gorgeous P-40, and all suffered from having an interior color in the look back areas. In the case of 2 of the P-47s, even then, the interior color was incorrect. I and several others have published our info on the major sites many times, and either folks don't bother to read, or they disbelieve. Modeldad published excellent shots of the Republic assembly line, clearly showing the proper colors on Hyperscale. I and others have published color shots of P-47s and P-40s, clearly showing the exterior color in that area. Frankly, I just don't get it, it's not like this info is so esoteric as to be arcane, it's out there with just the slightest amount of effort expended. Hal Sr