What's with Payton Manning's "audible" circus?

[TaiidanTomcat]

I'd say very much necessary. It is what sets Manning and Tom Brady( shut up TT :P/> ) apart. They see the game so much differently than every one else. The two of them do a much better job in my humble opinion call the plays at scrimmage than the OC does from the box or sideline.

Heh

They are given a lot more leeway as they are smart good QBs and beyond trying to get false starts they are trying to get the Defense to reveal its true intentions, rather than the disquise set-ups you MUST use to defeat them.

[Neptune48]

Yes, it's getting worse every year. Dan Dierdorf, for instance, was unfortunately so off with his remarks on Saturday. He would say one thing and the complete opposite thing would happen two seconds later. I have no issues with him personally, but I think it is best that it was his last game.

The two I like are Chris Colinsworth and, surprisingly, Trent Dilfer. Chris is good at game analysis. Dilfer I think is much better than Steve Young with post game analysis, even though SY has all the street cred. For some reason it sounds as if SY has to correct everybody around him and that is annoying.

I used to like Mike Mayock, but for some reason, not much anymore. This must be a sin but I like how articulate and smooth Ray Lewis is. I see him having a future in broadcasting. Same goes for Ryan Clark (Steelers safety). He will make it it big on TV.

All said, I am losing my interest in the NFL each passing year. Part of it is the Steelers not doing well. But the main thing is all the injuries these players are enduring. I hate to see body parts flex in ways they are not supposed to.

Anyway, back to the audibles...

In my house you will frequently hear me holler, "Shut up, Simms!" at the TV (that's Phil Simms for those unfamiliar). Second worst, in my opinion, is John Gruden, who makes Monday Night Football almost unwatchable.

[Janissary]

In my house you will frequently hear me holler, "Shut up, Simms!" at the TV (that's Phil Simms for those unfamiliar). Second worst, in my opinion, is John Gruden, who makes Monday Night Football almost unwatchable.

Gruden is annoying. He should just do the draft-season QB interview/work-outs and leave it at that. I miss John Madden.

I like how the Superbowl is shaping up. Battle of the generations. I will not make a prediction but I would enjoy a Manning - Kaepernick matchup, with Manning hoisting the Lombardi!

[fulcrum1]

I had family play for both the 49ers and the Broncos. I grew up in the Sacramento/Bay Area and currently live in Colorado. If there is a Manning - Kaepernick matchup I want no part of it! The last time those two teams played it wasn't pretty in my household for the Denver fans. Push comes to shove, I want to see Manning go out a Superbowl champ. He's a true class act.

[ChesshireCat]

OK, admittedly as a Canadian, I don't watch that much NFL football, but I have watched enough games over the years to know what is to be expected from NFL quarterbacks. Once in awhile, you get the quarterback changing things up when he doesn't like what he sees on the defense, so some prancing around while yelling out signals is to be expected- once in awhile! I watched the Chargers/ Broncos game yesterday and I think Manning screamed and yelled and walked all over the field for EVERY play! How annoying! Is it just me or does this behavior drive you nuts as well? Yes, the Broncos are favorites to win the Super Bowl and Manning is one of the best, but C'mon. Is this really necessary?

Peyton is probably the best offensive coordinator in the game. Defensive players have long studied his play calling to no avail. He changes them all the time, and often right in the middle of a game. I listened to Bayless trying to tell everyone what "Omaha" ment, and he was light years wrong! Manning has often said that in one game it means to expect an audible, and even in the second half it might mean nothing. Sometimes it's just a shoulder shrug. In the game the other night it was obvious that it was to expect a hard count! Brady does it his own way, but the results end up being similar. In an interview with Tom Brady awhile back he flat said that Manning was the master at tricking the defense into errors, and even went so far as to force them into errors. Yet I've heard Manning say the samething about Tom. In the end Luck will become the new master as he's rapidly learning the craft, but may still be a season and a half away.

As for reading the defense, nobody prepares for a game as well as Manning period. That right from Tom Brady himself. As the defense changes, the offensive line must adapt. Manning does it on the fly, and that he does very well.

gary

[ChesshireCat]

Yeah, I've wondered if he's gotten away with to much of that over the years too ...

-Gregg

well you seriously need to look at some old game footage. Elway developed the hard count. and made it work. Yet at the sametime the teams he smoked were whining and crying. I watched Bradshaw, and Montana get by with stuff that wouldn't be legal today. I remember one game with the Steelers, where Pomeranian lined up in the neutral zone on 3/4 of the plays, but that was OK? Refs tend to look differently on some teams than others. Look at the Pats road record verses home is a good example (or New Orleans). The quarterback sets the play, and the defense sets their own play. It's the quarterback and the center's job to see the changes the defense makes and read the defensive line as well. That's became an art these days, and that's why the good quarterbacks make so many audibles during a game.

gary

[ChesshireCat]

I don't want much NFL either, but I've seen that too. With a proper 20 second play clock, he'd be flagged for Time Count penalties on every single play.

think what Manning would do up there in the minor league! The Tide would probably eat them alive.

gary

[ChesshireCat]

lol, this must have been a horrible season for you :P/>/>

Im sure Peyton would be smart enough to get a snap in 20 seconds.

Dan Deardorf said once that nobody can manage a clock as well as Peyton Manning, and he meant the entire history of the game. Nobody even comes close to the two minute drill like Manning, and 60 seconds can be an eternity.

gary

[GreyGhost]

well you seriously need to look at some old game footage. Elway developed the hard count. and made it work. Yet at the sametime the teams he smoked were whining and crying. I watched Bradshaw, and Montana get by with stuff that wouldn't be legal today. I remember one game with the Steelers, where Pomeranian lined up in the neutral zone on 3/4 of the plays, but that was OK? Refs tend to look differently on some teams than others. Look at the Pats road record verses home is a good example (or New Orleans). The quarterback sets the play, and the defense sets their own play. It's the quarterback and the center's job to see the changes the defense makes and read the defensive line as well. That's became an art these days, and that's why the good quarterbacks make so many audibles during a game.

gary

Its not so much the audible calling that he does that bothers me, its all the moving around that he seems to get away with ...

-Gregg

[11bee]

think what Manning would do up there in the minor league! The Tide would probably eat them alive.

gary

Nice thought but highly unlikely. 90% of the kids playing college ball will never even make it to the pro's, let alone prosper in the NFL. They look formidable because they are playing other kids.

If you took away some of Mannings (or Bradys) setup time, I really don't think it would change the end result. Heck, Brady seems to do better when they are playing no-huddle, fast-snap offense.

[niart17]

I think his play calling is second to none. And as others have said, it throws the defense off when they don't know if he's really making a change or just putting on a "show" for them. That's called strategy. I noticed the "Omaha" call on pretty much every play as well and one theory I had about it (at least for this week) is it seemed like he'd do a hard count, make an audible and before his real count he'd then say "Omaha". I wondered if it meant this count is the real one. The few times he didn't make an audible, he said Omaha before the first count and that's when they hiked the bal...hmmm.... <_<

But I like watching him work. It's like precision surgery at times.

Bill

[Janissary]

Let's hear it from those who play(ed) the game…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsAKFIbpC1A

Edited January 14, 2014 by Janissary

[Micro]

Let's hear it from those who play(ed) the game…

Told ya!

[Micro]

An actual video of the science behind his calls...

[chuck540z3]

Thanks guys, the last video explains it all: You guys have too much time on your hands! Knock 5 seconds off that clock (like the CFL) and you'll have less dancing and more running the ball.

You should also stop the clock after every play during the last 2 minutes, but that's another story.....

[niart17]

You should also stop the clock after every play during the last 2 minutes, but that's another story.....

Now that I TOTALLY disagree with. If a team's not good enough to manage the clock and their time-outs then oh well, that's their undoing. I think some of the best most exciting football is the 2 minute drill when a team has used all time outs and has to orchestrate a way to drive 80+ yards using nothing but speed, skill and brains. THAT's good football.

Bill

[zerosystem]

Now that I TOTALLY disagree with. If a team's not good enough to manage the clock and their time-outs then oh well, that's their undoing. I think some of the best most exciting football is the 2 minute drill when a team has used all time outs and has to orchestrate a way to drive 80+ yards using nothing but speed, skill and brains. THAT's good football.

Bill

I agree, it adds another element to the game. Its really something when you see the good time management teams go against those that have none, especially at the end of a game.

[RiderFan]

Thanks guys, the last video explains it all: You guys have too much time on your hands! Knock 5 seconds off that clock (like the CFL) and you'll have less dancing and more running the ball. :thumbsup:/>

You should also stop the clock after every play during the last 2 minutes, but that's another story.....

They'd have to knock 20 seconds off their clock to be like the CFL. They'd also have to get rid of 2 of their 3 time outs in a half and have a 3 minute warning (not 2). I prefer the clock stoppage rules in the CFL too. With those rules I've seen 3 TD's scored (total of both teams) in the final 60 seconds of a CFL game. You never, ever see a team walking off the field with lots of time on the clock because they know the other team can't do anything about it.

[chuck540z3]

I think some of the best most exciting football is the 2 minute drill when a team has used all time outs and has to orchestrate a way to drive 80+ yards using nothing but speed, skill and brains. THAT's good football.

Bill

Ignoring the fact that most CFL players are NFL rejects and the skill level is obviously not quite as good, CFL football games are really, really entertaining!- partially due to only 3 downs and a stop clock in the final 2 minutes. The scores are higher too and as David said above, 3 touchdowns have often been scored in those last 2 minutes. Edge of your seat stuff and it's "never over 'till it's over". During the NFL games I saw last weekend, the game was over with 2 minutes left. That's kind of boring if you ask me.

[TaiidanTomcat]

Nice thought but highly unlikely. 90% of the kids playing college ball will never even make it to the pro's, let alone prosper in the NFL. They look formidable because they are playing other kids.

If you took away some of Mannings (or Bradys) setup time, I really don't think it would change the end result. Heck, Brady seems to do better when they are playing no-huddle, fast-snap offense.

Agreed! don't give the NFL any more ideas to favor the offense! One of the reason that "fast paced" offenses favor the offense and not the defense is the Defense does not know what is coming so they have to cover more ground. They have to assume that "dummy routes" are the real deal, while also looking for the run, and trying to find the ball. Action is faster than reaction.

Cutting down the play clock would just ensure that peyton and brady do what they already do even quicker.

[niart17]

Ignoring the fact that most CFL players are NFL rejects and the skill level is obviously not quite as good, CFL football games are really, really entertaining!- partially due to only 3 downs and a stop clock in the final 2 minutes. The scores are higher too and as David said above, 3 touchdowns have often been scored in those last 2 minutes. Edge of your seat stuff and it's "never over 'till it's over". During the NFL games I saw last weekend, the game was over with 2 minutes left. That's kind of boring if you ask me.

I understand what you're saying but to me that would be like having a mandatory pit stop on every one of the last 5 laps of a race. That gives an unfair advantage to the losers. If you're not good enough to stay within striking distance at the end of the game, or not great enough to make a miracle come back, then you don't deserve the win. I see that as un-leveling the playing field to the benefit of the worse of the two teams. IMHO

Bill

[RiderFan]

Ignoring the fact that most CFL players are NFL rejects and the skill level is obviously not quite as good, CFL football games are really, really entertaining!- partially due to only 3 downs and a stop clock in the final 2 minutes. The scores are higher too and as David said above, 3 touchdowns have often been scored in those last 2 minutes. Edge of your seat stuff and it's "never over 'till it's over". During the NFL games I saw last weekend, the game was over with 2 minutes left. That's kind of boring if you ask me.

The number of NFL players, including superstars, that have come up to the CFL and failed miserably would boggle your mind.

Ricky Williams. Superstar NFL running back. Gets suspended for pot and comes to the CFL. Does not have 1 single 100 yard rushing game. Not a single one. His back up has 5 of them. Then he goes back to the NFL and has a brilliant season.

Vince Ferragamo, starts in a super bowl then signs in Montreal the following year. Throws 13 interceptions in 5 games and is cut. Goes back to the NFL and has a great career.

The list of NFL players that are cut in training camp, and that you never even hear of, is endless.

Just because you're a good player in the NFL, means diddly squat here. The game is too fast. You need a completely different type of athlete. Linebackers and defensive linemen coming up from the NFL are told to drop 20-30 lbs just so they can keep up.

[niart17]

Just because you're a good player in the NFL, means diddly squat here. The game is too fast. You need a completely different type of athlete. Linebackers and defensive linemen coming up from the NFL are told to drop 20-30 lbs just so they can keep up.

That could probably be said equally, if not more, the other way around. Those that grow up in the CFL mindset probably couldn't make it very well here on average. That doesn't mean better or worse, just different.

Also just a side note, Ricky Williams did break his arm and have a tendon injury the year he played for the CFL. That, along with overcoming a drug problem, may have contributed to his lack of performance. Just sayin'

Bill

[RiderFan]

That could probably be said equally, if not more, the other way around. Those that grow up in the CFL mindset probably couldn't make it very well here on average. That doesn't mean better or worse, just different.

Also just a side note, Ricky Williams did break his arm and have a tendon injury the year he played for the CFL. That, along with overcoming a drug problem, may have contributed to his lack of performance. Just sayin'

Bill

Yes I know Ricky Williams broke his arm. He did it in Saskatchewan against the 'Riders trying to outrun a linebacker which was never going to happen. But he was stinking up the joint long before he did that. He didn't do very well because he's completely the wrong type of running back for the CFL. His 'drug problem' had very little to do with anything.

[Jay Chladek]

The CFL and NFL have their differences and not everybody can adapt, just like not everybody can transistion from either to Arena Football and back. But, when you get those players that CAN change up their style from one to the other, such as Warren Moon or Doug Flutie... (or Kurt Warner as he did in the NFL after playing a few seasons in Arena Football) it becomes REALLY fun.

The other thing about success or failure of a player also has to do with quite a bit of luck, timing and/or fortunate circumstances (or unfortunate in a couple cases). For every team that is successful, several are not quite so good. I've seen plenty of mediocre teams (such as what the Browns have been of late) take in a good player and he just does NOT do well under the system at all. Throw in a season ending ACL or MCL tear and how long before they end up on the scrapheap after too short a career. Some precious few might get a second chance in a team that likes castoffs (such as what the Oakland Raiders were until a few years ago) and finds ways to use them. But that tends to be few and far between.

What would have happened to Payton Manning if he remained with the Chargers and DIDN'T get traded to Indy? What if the QB that Kurt Warner was backing up at the Rams didn't get a season ending injury in 1999, would the "Greatest show on turf" have even happened? What if Warren Moon DID get drafted by an NFL team as a QB when he was up for it? What if Matt Flynn at Green Bay didn't have the opportunity to comeback this year after losing out on a starting job in Seattle and Oakland?