Jennings Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Looks like that's part of the tooling, not just a case of poor molding. The tool was made incorrectly for whatever reason, and nobody seems to have caught it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThudDriver Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Since Southviper is from Brazil, might I suggest that maybe there's language interpretation issue more than a kit issue involved here ?.. mu .02 cents Thuddriver Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SouthViper Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 Thanks for Your efforts guys, the problem I have trying explain is fully discovered now. Great pics JeffreyK , I was considering taking some pics too to show here for clarification for what point I was referring, and Your two firsts photos show the problem very well. Ben Brown , sorry for Your disappointment and Your statement "You can feel them if you run your finger along the underside of the wing" is exactly I was about to say. Now I have doubts if that "wavy" is caused by injected plastic malformation in some kits because NOW it looks to be more a bad engineering of that part, and this means that no replacement part will fix the "problem"... SouthViper Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SouthViper Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 Thanks for Your efforts guys, the problem I have trying explain is fully discovered now. Great pics JeffreyK , I was considering taking some pics too to show here for clarification for what point I was referring, and Your two firsts photos show the problem very well. Ben Brown , sorry for Your disappointment and Your statement "You can feel them if you run your finger along the underside of the wing" is exactly I was about to say. Now I have doubts if that "wavy" is caused by injected plastic malformation in some kits because NOW it looks to be more a bad engineering of that part, and this means that no replacement part will fix the "problem"... SouthViper Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SouthViper Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 Since Southviper is from Brazil, might I suggest that maybe there's language interpretation issue more than a kit issue involved here ?.. mu .02 cents Thuddriver I think yes, since I was surprised when many guys asked me about "wavy" ( ondulado, in portuguese). SouthViper Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Looks like that's part of the tooling, not just a case of poor molding. The tool was made incorrectly for whatever reason, and nobody seems to have caught it. Somebody must have bumped the CAD designer's arm when he was moving the mouse. :D Relatively minor issues aside, I still really like these kits. Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stevehnz Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 and the usual heavy handedness locked the thread... and guess which mod did it? http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234955680-replacement-lower-wing-section-for-f-4c-phantom-ii-from-academy/#entry1549315 Probably easier than shifting it into the correct forum as I've seen happen with other forums. Maybe even BM before.:unsure: Steve. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
phantomdriver Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 pure laziness, and ego more like.......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Harrier/Viper Fan Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I have to agree with that mod on BM he shouldn't be one he seems to like to throw his weight around. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
phantomdriver Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 typical ex squaddie......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SouthViper Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 quote: Jennings Posted 17 February 2014 - 05:45 PM Looks like that's part of the tooling, not just a case of poor molding. The tool was made incorrectly for whatever reason, and nobody seems to have caught it. I was affraid that would be the case but taking a closer look overall the F-4C Academy kit, I have confirmed that mainly the Vertical Tail, both inner wing pylons and both outer wing panels (maily at the hinges) are ALSO ruined by malformation caused by bad plastic injection. Somebody at Academy forgot to adjust the machines... SouthViper Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Inquisitor Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Probably easier than shifting it into the correct forum as I've seen happen with other forums. Maybe even BM before. Steve. pure laziness, and ego more like.......... And having moderated other forums before, it's just a matter of a couple more clicks. Guess some people can't be bothered to even do that kind of superhuman effort... On a related note to the F-4C. I was planning to buy some stuff from luckymodel with the 10% discount and $2 surface shipping and found out the F-4C is no longer listed in their site, only the F-4B/N remains. Did Academy notice the error and discontinue the kit? Edited February 19, 2014 by Inquisitor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JeffreyK Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 While I can't see an issue with the outer wing panels of my kits, (I can confirm the sink marks/ surface undulations on the inner pylons and the vertical tail. On the pylons it looks just like good old sink marks you see on older kits where thicker plastic shrinks while cooling. The vertical tail has similar sort of undulations as on the lower wing surfaces. I checked my F-4B kits as well and if you look (and feel) very closely you can find some signs of this issue on the vertical tail and the Navy inner pylons, but nowhere near as prominent as in the F-4C kit. It looks more and more like a problem related to manufacturing - something to do with temperature, pressure or time. It would be good if everyone with a "C" kit could have a good look and if there was an issue, report it to their vendor or distributor so Academy is made aware of the problem and get a chance to put it right (also with regard to their future Phantom kits). From a building point of view, you can putty the sink marks in the pylons (and restore the surface detail), and perhaps ignore the tail (under paint and decals you probably won't notice it), but the lower wing surfaces might be a little more tricky as the undulations affect the fit of the wheel well inserts and pylons. If you chose to putty and sand here, a lot of nice surface detail would be lost. J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jenshb Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The tailfin in my F-4B kit certainly has a wavy surface, and I think this is due to shrinkage of the plastic due to Academy moulding the fin in one piece with some differing thicknesses (mainly at the bottom for the groove). A shame really as the rivet detail and panel lines will need restoring unless one is happy to live with a bumpy fin. The problem appears to be the same in the F-4C kit. Jens Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F4DPhantomII Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Attn:Ben Brown As promised earlier I drilled out holes for inboard AF pylon on my F-4C and F-4D wings.I dry fitted pylon to wing and had no problem achieving a good fit.So my wings must be ok for that fit. My only concern is location of forward pin on pylon fit to front BLC flap.Although there is a panel it mounts to, when the BLC Flap is lowered the pylon would interfere with the inboard lowering.Is that correct? Also I see the problem with the vertical tail indentation on the left side but the right side seems ok. Edited February 20, 2014 by F4DPhantomII Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kstater94 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 As I posted over on BM, I personally think this is much ado about nothing. I have some issues on my kit. However, once sway braces are installed and paint, decals, and weathering etc. applied to the kit, I think most of the concerns will not be as apparent. If this is stopping you from building now, you might as well give up the hobby But, that's just my opinion. regards, John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JeffreyK Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I normally don't enter discussions about the validity of personal opinions as they so often "go south", but as I've already contributed quite a bit in this thread I might as well... I think there have been discussions about much smaller, and much more "fixable" issues with modern kits. Yes, the issues here might be covered up on the finished model, but they are still there unless corrected with a LOT of effort. The undulations under the wings can cause the pylons not to sit in their intended orientation and the wheel well inserts not to fit 100%. The parts are designed correctly, but manufactured badly. Academy can and should do better and there's nothing wrong with pushing for that. If you bought a car and the carpet in the boot has been cut badly and glued in with creases, would you not complain as well? It's not a glaring issue, but an issue non the less as you've paid for a fault-free product. Jeffrey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F4DPhantomII Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I normally don't enter discussions about the validity of personal opinions as they so often "go south", but as I've already contributed quite a bit in this thread I might as well... I think there have been discussions about much smaller, and much more "fixable" issues with modern kits. Yes, the issues here might be covered up on the finished model, but they are still there unless corrected with a LOT of effort. The undulations under the wings can cause the pylons not to sit in their intended orientation and the wheel well inserts not to fit 100%. The parts are designed correctly, but manufactured badly. Academy can and should do better and there's nothing wrong with pushing for that. If you bought a car and the carpet in the boot has been cut badly and glued in with creases, would you not complain as well? It's not a glaring issue, but an issue non the less as you've paid for a fault-free product. Jeffrey That is true. I have not tried fitting the wheelwells yet.Maybe Academy will correct it like they did on their 1/48 F-22 Raptor nose problem.But not give any indication that it was corrected. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SouthViper Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 As I posted over on BM, I personally think this is much ado about nothing. I have some issues on my kit. However, once sway braces are installed and paint, decals, and weathering etc. applied to the kit, I think most of the concerns will not be as apparent. If this is stopping you from building now, you might as well give up the hobby But, that's just my opinion. regards, John ... hey John , and it looks like a lot with an F-4 hein ? SouthViper Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Hi all, I just checked my F-4D, and the fin and pylons are OK. Perhaps the kits intended for the F-4D boxes were molded on a different day than the C kits? It looks like the wing underside waviness is a mold-design issue, instead of a molding process issue, but it's something I can easily live with it. However, I can see it being an issue for an aftermarket manufacturer like Jeffery, who is trying to get a good fit for his parts. Just to put things in perspective, imagine what this kit would have looked like if Trumpeter had released it? Ben (survivor of a Trumpeter 1/32 F-100 & currently trying to beat an A3D into submission) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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