jfmajor60 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Sad but true Don.....btw anyone know if Dennis Rodman is busy? Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 (edited) I wonder why felt the need the to show and bold article 4 to us then? seeing as it doesn't matter and all. I don't know, hoping your arrogance wouldn't push the matter further? Take it personal if you want; i find it much more personal you apparently thought i was OK with illegal invasion of a country i have ancestors from. thats quite the invalid document they agreed to there. Makes you wonder why they signed it at all? since it has no meaning. Signed or not signed means nothing. What part of was-not-ratified-by-congress don't you get? I'm glad I clicked instead of once again relying on your bolded cherry picking. That was in regards to US Sanctions and Belarus from a year ago... Well done Sherlock, truly impressive detective work. Quote is for the whole Budapest Memorandum. It clearly says that in their eyes, it is not legally binding. If it is not legally binding then, why would it magically be legally binding now? It was not ratified year ago, and it isn't ratified now. Nothing has changed and situation doesn't matter. Edited March 1, 2014 by Berkut Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 (edited) I don't know, hoping your arrogance wouldn't push the matter further? you got caught trying to say none of it mattered if nukes were involved, you then shifted it to "it didn't matter because its not ratified by congress" Now you are trying to make it personal by claiming I hurt your feelings: Take it personal if you want; i find it much more personal you apparently thought i was OK with illegal invasion of a country i have ancestors from. I don't take it personally I'm shocked you didn't think the other 3 articles above article four were worth mentioning. Singed or not signed means nothing. What part of was-not-ratified-by-congress don't you get? signed by Russia means a lot, and it doesn't have to be ratified by congress for NATO, the UN, or POTUS to take action. So thats not worth the paper its printed on either. It clearly says that in their eyes, it is not legally binding. If it is not legally binding then, why would it magically be legally binding now? It was not ratified year ago, and it isn't ratified now. Nothing has changed and situation doesn't matter. because It doesn't have to be legally binding for action to be taken? what do I win? I think the situation matter a great deal, if you can't tell the difference between Belarus complaining about sanctions to the local embassy and what the action in ukraine which is turning into an international crises, then I don't know what to tell you. this isn't sanctions, this is looking like invasion. Kind of a big difference there. Edited March 1, 2014 by TaiidanTomcat Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Stark Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 If you two are suggesting that i don't want Russia out of Crimea ASAP ZULU ANULULU, then you can both sincerely go and... finish the sentence, any way you like :)/>/>/> ...drink a round of Jack and Coke, your treat? ...watch a Harold Ramis-a-thon of Ghostbusters, Stripes, Caddyshack and Vacation? ...grill some salmon? If you're so hell bent against Russia crossing the border, then why'd you post just one part of the 1994 agreement and hint that the terms didn't apply? Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 (edited) ...drink a round of Jack and Coke, your treat? ...watch a Harold Ramis-a-thon of Ghostbusters, Stripes, Caddyshack and Vacation? ...grill some salmon? If you're so hell bent against Russia crossing the border, then why'd you post just one part of the 1994 agreement and hint that the terms didn't apply? I found that rather odd as well I don't know, hoping your arrogance wouldn't push the matter further? My arrogance of suggesting a google search of a two word phrase? (I said nothing else, chose no side, had no quip) you then came back with article 4, and said "no cigar" while ignoring the other 3 above articles that were then posted by Waco and myself. Again showing there might be something there... arrogance of being able to read? Now on that whole reading note, It wasn't ratified by US Congress (though it is taken seriously according to what you posted) it was signed by other countries though, like the UK, Norther Ireland and Russia. Are we trying to say that it doesn't matter because it wasn't ratified by law by the Americans? which is only one of the many countries that signed it? I had no idea that the US congress had such control over international treaties to the point where if it wasn't legally binding in the US, then the entire thing was null and void internationally. Edited March 1, 2014 by TaiidanTomcat Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Yeah, i think it is best i don't respond to either of you two anymore. Believe whatever you want. I haven't seen a shred of evidence this magic bullet agreement being respected or mention by *any* parties or UN. And i don't believe when i wake up tomorrow situation will be gone just because a paper is pulled up. I rather put my hope that cool heads will prevail in this situation and not put my faith in a useless piece of paper. Link to post Share on other sites
Crazy Snap Captain Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) Just like this thread, this situation has the potential to get real ugly real quick. Russia is feeling like its being choked out of its access to the Black Sea and the Med. It could lose out big time financially if the Ukraine sides with Europe economically. I agree with Berkut that the Budapest Memorandum will mean squat to Russia. They could argue that the whole Miadan revolution is a Western led coup to topple the legitimately, democratically elected (pro Russian) government. This is a serious situation that I'm really concerned about. Has all the hallmarks of a WW trigger point. Scary stuff... Beiber looks so good for his age don't you think? Another question...where do you guys source all those GIFs? They're classic. Edited March 2, 2014 by Crazy Snap Captain Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Stark Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Yeah, i think it is best i don't respond to either of you two anymore. Believe whatever you want. I haven't seen a shred of evidence this magic bullet agreement being respected or mention by *any* parties or UN. And i don't believe when i wake up tomorrow situation will be gone just because a paper is pulled up. I rather put my hope that cool heads will prevail in this situation and not put my faith in a useless piece of paper. You still didn't answer our question. Link to post Share on other sites
toadwbg Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) Another question...where do you guys source all those GIFs? They're classic. :google:/>/>/> Edited March 2, 2014 by toadwbg Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Russia is feeling like its being choked out of its access to the Black Sea and the Med. I don't think they are behaving like they are because of that. Even if Tsar Putin sat on his hands and did absolutely nothing, it would still have been favorable situation for him. Either way you turn it, Crimea would have had greater independence from Ukraine after all this turmoil and bases they lease would have still been there. And that is why everyone is WTF'ing why Russia has chosen to invade. Also remember than invasion happened first, and only then he thought it would be nice symbolic gesture to ask Duma's permission. The excuse that Russian speaking population (which is very large in Crimea and eastern Ukraine) needed "protection" is malarkey. No one was seriously threatening them. Link to post Share on other sites
Just4kiks Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I just hope the U.S. doesn't stick its nose in it. Link to post Share on other sites
Les / Creative Edge Photo Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Phone rings: Ring.....Ring.....Ring... Answering: "Hello" Reply: "Hello, Kettle? This is the Pot calling!" Link to post Share on other sites
Backfire Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 For what it's worth, I have been to Ukraine and specifically Crimea several times, including Simferopol, Sevastopol, Yalta, Yevpatoria, & Balaklava (I have family that live in Crimea and elsewhere in Ukraine). I was even invited as a guest once to attend the Russian Navy celebrations during Navy Day in Sevastopol, where Russian patriotism was in full display. Even though Crimea is within Ukraine's territorial boundary, when I visited I always felt that I had entered Russian territory, the historic ties are very strong. Still, Russia's heavy-handed approach to this situation will likely harm them in the long run - c'mon, this is 2014 not 1938 or 1968! Unfortunately, before long (pending response from the West) they will most likely move to enter other areas of Russian-speaking Ukraine including the Donbass, Kharkiv region and maybe Odessa also, no matter what agreements they may have signed. Too bad, my wife and daughter were planning a family visit this summer to Ukraine - already purchased flight tickets - but the outlook for a peaceful resolution by then is not good. I wonder if President Putin will reimburse my costs? Keith Link to post Share on other sites
305swag Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 The situation is truly disturbing and again the West look on almost helpless to act. F-15 Eagle vs Sukhoi Su-27. Lets hope it never comes to that! I'm more surprised that your surprised that the west does nothing when it comes to Russia. You need not worry about about eagles vs migs. History always repeats itself and this outcome will be decided within the borders of the former USSR. As it should. Link to post Share on other sites
Horrido Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I have family in Ukraine. My grandmother is going back to Ukraine from vacation in a few days. This is what we need to keep in mind during these discussions. There are a lot of innocent people being used as pawns for the gain of those who only serve themselves. Link to post Share on other sites
toadwbg Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 This is what we need to keep in mind during these discussions. There are a lot of innocent people being used as pawns for the gain of those who only serve themselves. Generals gathered in their masses, just like witches at black masses. Evil minds that plot destruction, sorcerers of death's construction. In the fields the bodies burning, as the war machine keeps turning. Death and hatred to mankind, poisoning their brainwashed minds...Oh lord yeah! Politicians hide themselves away They only started the war Why should they go out to fight? They leave that role to the poor Time will tell on their power minds Making war just for fun Treating people just like pawns in chess Wait `till their judgement day comes, yeah! Now in darkness, world stops turning, as you hear the bodies burning. No more war pigs of the power, hand of god has struck the hour. Day of judgement, god is calling, on their knees the war pigs crawling. Begging mercy for their sins, Satan, laughing, spreads his wings...Oh lord, yeah! Link to post Share on other sites
Check Six Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 ...drink a round of Jack and Coke, your treat? ...watch a Harold Ramis-a-thon of Ghostbusters, Stripes, Caddyshack and Vacation? ...grill some salmon? If you're so hell bent against Russia crossing the border, then why'd you post just one part of the 1994 agreement and hint that the terms didn't apply? Oh, oh; I'll bring dessert ! ! Tony; What are you going to bring to the pwned cookout ?! Link to post Share on other sites
Johnopfor Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Grenada, Panama, Guantanamo Bay, Hong Kong... Hey! We haven't invaded Hong Kong yet....... Link to post Share on other sites
Johnopfor Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Sad but true Don.....btw anyone know if Dennis Rodman is busy? He's trying on new dresses for his next rendezvous with Kim in North Korea. Link to post Share on other sites
Horrido Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Hey! We haven't invaded Hong Kong yet....... Then obviously we are remiss... I was actually thinking more in terms of bases held in foreign lands in opposition to the local governments. But, yes, Hong Kong was returned according to contract. So, as devil's advocate for the sake of escalation, since Crimea is seized to ensure a Russian warm water port: What happens if NATO or Turkey decide to get obstinate and close the Bosphorus to all Russian traffic, thus nullifying the gain? Link to post Share on other sites
Horrido Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Generals gathered in their masses, Least you could do is post the video: :P/> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGPD0ZBiMs0 And where's Kolja when you need some good Kipling? Link to post Share on other sites
Rank11 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 don't be ridiculous we have A-10s! Don't be facetious. This war we're gonna have with Russia is a job for F-35s. I'm sure Eglin and Yuma are getting them prepped to deploy right now as we speak. It's been what? Ten? Fifteen years since they started the program? Surely they've reached at least IOC by now? Haven't they? Where are the F-35s? We need them. Now. Btw, happened to that other thread? I can't find it. Just want to let you know I had no idea you are so cute with your gameface, tomcat. Gimme a meow, tommy cat. Gimme a Meeeoww. Link to post Share on other sites
Check Six Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Btw, happened to that other thread? I can't find it. I've been looking for it too. I have a feeling it was nuked. Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) Yeah, i think it is best i don't respond to either of you two anymore. Believe whatever you want. I haven't seen a shred of evidence this magic bullet agreement being respected or mention by *any* parties or UN. And i don't believe when i wake up tomorrow situation will be gone just because a paper is pulled up. I rather put my hope that cool heads will prevail in this situation and not put my faith in a useless piece of paper. I think there is something lost in translation: lets go through some steps. Number 1. Is Russia in violation of the Bucharest Memorandum that they willing signed in 1994? Yes---> Ok then then other signataries can call a meeting of the UN and further action can be taken as specified. No---> A meeting of the EU/NATO/UN is probably going to happen anyway. Number 2. Will the piece of paper mean anything? Yes---> UN/NATO/EU/USA could impose penalties for violating it up to and including military action, its really up to what happens in those meetings and how the international groups decide. No---> Its not exactly going to stop the Russians obviously, and if everyone decides to do nothing then yes the treaty was useless. Rules are as valuable as their enforcement. Laws are easy, enforcing laws is tricky. Number 3 Does the treaty not being ratified by the US mean anything Yes---> because its not legally binding that way. No---> The US doesn't have to have congressional approval for everything the POTUS decides to do, its been said its vitally important despite that and other Signatories are expected to uphold their end because they signed it as well. So I think we are all just caught up in semantics. This wasn't helped when we decided to get specific and then just throw the whole thing out. So I think the whole world is going to launch into WWIII because of the bucharest agreement? No. Do I think its worth noting that Russia violated it when talking about this situation, and that Ukraine thought that piece of paper might protect them because they had people looking out for them? yes. Is Russia probably going to get away with this? yes. Edited March 2, 2014 by TaiidanTomcat Link to post Share on other sites
Devilleader501 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) I found this quit interesting. Not sure if it is all related but to me this is kind of ironic. Seems to me Russia is preparing to invade Ukraine to me. http://rt.com/news/putin-drill-combat-army-864/ I was also reading the comments and they all make valid points and makes a lot of sense. Edited March 2, 2014 by Devilleader501 Link to post Share on other sites
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