Malaysian airlines plane missing

[Wolfgun33]

I have found the Malaysians very unprofessional and they should have asked for help from the start.

You would have thought they would have grounded their aircraft/system until they figured out the first breaches with passports (although I don't think a real terrorist will ever use a stolen passport).

I found it disturbing that they were laughing and joking in two of their news conferences (one with the Italian who had his passport stolen and the second joking about the looks of one of the people with the stolen passport). They should have been solemn and serious.

I've noticed that as well. It seems to me that the Malaysian government has NO clue on what's going on. They change their story everytime they have a news conference.

CNN stated yesterday that the US was scaling back their efforts to find the aircraft. Guess they have more important things to worry about not to far away.

[11bee]

CNN stated yesterday that the US was scaling back their efforts to find the aircraft. Guess they have more important things to worry about not to far away.

Given how wide the search area is, you can cover much more ground using the USN P-3 & P-8 aircraft that are deployed over there. A DDG and it's helo aren't the best tools for something like this.

[Steve N]

Here's an interesting article with a surprisingly simple and plausible theory. Not as glamorous and some terrorist incident, but makes much more sense to me (a non pilot.)

SN

<<MH 370 Brought Down By Onboard Fire?>>

Edited March 18, 2014 by Steve N

[82Whitey51]

Here's an interesting article with a surprisingly simple and plausible theory. Not as glamorous and some terrorist incident, but makes much more sense to me (a non pilot.)

SN

<<MH 370 Brought Down By Onboard Fire?>>

Yes, this is the most plausible theory I've heard yet.

[White Wolf]

Yes, this is the most plausible theory I've heard yet.

But even if there was a fire and the crew was overwhelmed trying to control it, why weren't there any calls made by the passengers via handphones or tablets? I would certainly think that at least one of the passengers would have tried to desperately call his or her family or friends. Note that I'm 100% clueless on how aircraft communications work, so maybe I'm wrong.

[Stratospheremodels]

You really think they have aircraft on quick reaction duty in that part of the world? Until 911 we didn't even have that in North America and to the best of my knowledge we are one of the few that still do.

It has been reported that most of the radar sites in those regions are turned off at night.

Most the fighter pilots in those countries were probably sleeping.

Hi Scooby,

Thanks for the details ! Actually i thought we DID have aircraft on quick reaction duty 7/7 24 hours during the Cold War, and so did the Soviets and several other nations. Wasn't it when they dispatched interceptors when we still had the Norad system (back in the days) on full alert everytime they'd pick up a Bear bomber or any other aircraft from the Soviet Union they'd scramble the fighters from Bagotville or from Labrador or from other bases and from one of the bases that is now closed in northern New Brunswick (back when there were Voodoos there)(saw them in my youth, very low level above the beach, those airplanes were Very active, each time i was in the region or near the base i'd see one or more take off or in the air). I regularly saw SAC and CAF jets above when i was a kid. So i am pretty much sure we had assets ready to take off at a moment's notice back then, because otherwise how to explain all those intercept photos of Bear aicrafts by Nato, US and Canadian aircrafts during those days and even today ?

I understand that during 9-11 at least one or more F-16 were dispatched to try to catch one of the hijacked Boeings but could never catch up with it as it kept going full speed and zigzaging and the plane was too far plus the F-16 cannot stay on afterburners eternally (no super-cruise)(and there are no F-22 bases in quantity sufficient to cover the CONUS, which is a real problem IMO, if they had more they might be able to catch a hijacked plane if ever it happens again). Either that or we need missile bases... to cover the empty spots.

By the way, after hours, the Swiss Airforce is no longer available. Yep... it is the French Air Force which is supposed to defend the Swiss airspace at night and on the weekend, due to budget constraints. I wonder how they came to that with all the banks full of the money of the richest people on the globe in their coffers... Also learned that the new long range Australian radar was also NOT working during the weekend when flight MH370 disappeared... Again, because they said it costs too much money to operate 24 hours a day and 7/7. How nice to know that many of us are not protected on the weekend... It is a real joke.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Stratospheremodels

[Stratospheremodels]

I bet there is a lot of information not being shared that US intelligence knows. But I already think they revealed too much, I don't think they should have released the engine ACARS info to the press, they should have made up some other bogus story stating how they knew the aircraft flew for another 7-8 hours. The bad guys will know to disable more stuff next time.

I think this is a new form of terror, that this was a trial run and the reason the aircraft was flown for so long was they didn't want any of the evidence found so the next event can't be prevented.

I have 25 plus years avionics engineering background.

Pretty much anyone who reads specialized aviation magazines brochures from stuff from vendors knows about ACARS. What i did not know was the part about some airlines using cheapo 2nd hand providers for similar services at a discounted price like seems to have been the case for Malaysian. The Airline was not in very good financial health it seems, so makes sense, but still i was rather surprised such independant services do exist (though i should not have been surprised i guess, because the same phenomenon already exists for various services in the IT world and on the web (say, an independant company offering services for HP computers diagnostic and repair online, etc, etc).

Edited March 19, 2014 by Stratospheremodels

[Stratospheremodels]

It just seems to be an awful lot of work to go through for terrorists to hijack an airliner filled with 239 passengers and then not take credit for it. Dry run or not, generally speaking terrorists don't do a whole lot of things without jumping in front of some camera bursting to take credit for it. If it's an aircraft they want, there are easier targets then a civilian airliner filled with passengers (and which would attract less attention in the media... that is if they are not looking to take credit for the hijacking as has been speculated). A FedEx, UPS, or some other cargo aircraft would probably be easier. Heck, stealing John Travolta's 707 would probably be less hassle (or any other privately owned large aircraft that is sitting on any one of the hundreds of tarmacs around the globe or for sale or otherwise). Now, if it was terrorists, then perhaps it wasn't the aircraft they wanted at all, but someone or something that was on the aircraft? For that matter, what if the aircraft was taken down by the "good-guys" because there was something on the aircraft that would have been devastating had it been allowed to fly it's route (biological weapon? Radiological weapon?)? Who knows? Until we get some definitive proof either way we are all merely speculating. It must be absolutely horrible for the families who had loved ones onboard. I cannot imagine what they are going through.

.

Don.

Hi Don,

it makes sense, that's exactly what i was thinking, if terrorists were to hijack a plane to keep it for later use as a cruise missile to slam it into a building, they would have been much better off stealing a cargo plane: no passengers to deal with, no hidden cellphone to reveal their plans to the world if they missed one of the passengers cellphones, everything more simple. But, terrorists minds do not function according to the logic of the rest of the population, they think about inflicting loss of lives, meaning targeting passenger aircrafts as it have a much deeper impact on the population than simply using a cargo plane.

Another thing that i find very strange is that everyone is reporting that the wife and children of the pilot left their house the day before the flight, but no one is talking about where his wife and children are now.....

Edited March 19, 2014 by Stratospheremodels

[82Whitey51]

But even if there was a fire and the crew was overwhelmed trying to control it, why weren't there any calls made by the passengers via handphones or tablets? I would certainly think that at least one of the passengers would have tried to desperately call his or her family or friends. Note that I'm 100% clueless on how aircraft communications work, so maybe I'm wrong.

I don't think you're going to get cell phone service at that altitude. Securing electrical busses would mean shutting off any aircraft cell calls I'd imagine.

This article talks about why...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/18/travel/malaysia-airlines-no-phone-calls/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Edited March 19, 2014 by 82Whitey51

[Don]

...if terrorists were to hijack a plane to keep it for later use as a cruise missile to slam it into a building, they would have been much better off stealing a cargo plane: no passengers to deal with, no hidden cellphone to reveal their plans to the world if they missed one of the passengers cellphones, everything more simple. But, terrorists minds do not function according to the logic of the rest of the population, they think about inflicting loss of lives, meaning targeting passenger aircrafts as it have a much deeper impact on the population...

Agree, but terrorists also can't wait to jump in front of a camera to claim responsibility for acts of terrorism, no matter the scale of said attack. Hijacking a civilian airliner with 239 souls on board would be a pretty major event for a terrorist organization to tout and you'd think that somebody would have taken responsibility for this missing flight by now. Even if it were a botched attempt, and the aircraft crashed into the ocean instead of a city, building, ship, or some other target, they (terrorists) would turn it into a victory for their cause (whatever that cause would be). As I have posted before, this whole event is indeed strange and there are indeed a series of odd events, and anything is possible. But, to me personally, it all just seems to complicated, messy, and far too much work to simply steal a large aircraft for use at a later date, or as some training exercise for a future operation, when there are easier methods to achieve the same results. But again, who really knows? We may never know and this may remain a mystery.

Don.

[11bee]

I understand that during 9-11 at least one or more F-16 were dispatched to try to catch one of the hijacked Boeings but could never catch up with it as it kept going full speed and zigzaging and the plane was too far plus the F-16 cannot stay on afterburners eternally (no super-cruise)(and there are no F-22 bases in quantity sufficient to cover the CONUS, which is a real problem IMO, if they had more they might be able to catch a hijacked plane if ever it happens again). Either that or we need missile bases... to cover the empty spots.

I was at Otis ANGB on 9/11 and can vouch that we did have aircraft on alert. Once the FAA and NORAD finally realized what was happening, they launched a couple of F-15's from Otis. However it was too late. They arrived over NYC in time to see the 2nd tower collapse. All the jets on QRA in the world will do you no good if you aren't expecting an attack and you are sitting on the ground because the powers that be don't have an understanding of what is happening.

The hijacked aircraft were not zig-zagging either. Once taken over, they pretty much headed straight for their targets.

[camaroz06]

If its true that the way points were entered before ATC sign off then unfortunately this is less plausible.

Here's an interesting article with a surprisingly simple and plausible theory. Not as glamorous and some terrorist incident, but makes much more sense to me (a non pilot.)

SN

<<MH 370 Brought Down By Onboard Fire?>>

[Finn]

Here is an article about an attempted intercept on 9/11:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/f-16-pilot-was-ready-to-give-her-life-on-sept-11/2011/09/06/gIQAMpcODK_story.html

although even with dummy 20mm, they could have taken the plane down. Also with radar, remember Pearl Harbor, the operators saw blips on their screen, called it in but...we all know what happen with that. And yes during the Cold War, QRAs were manned 24/7, i pulled many shifts.

Jari

[Ol Crew Dog]

Here's an interesting article with a surprisingly simple and plausible theory. Not as glamorous and some terrorist incident, but makes much more sense to me (a non pilot.)

SN

<<MH 370 Brought Down By Onboard Fire?>>

That's was my thoughts as well, they had a mishap, turned to an alternate ( thus the 4 punch code) and the mishap escalated to the point of being catastrophic..

Media hype behind this is getting carried away.

[Bigasshammm]

The only thing wrong with that is why not one signal on the radio there's a problem? Also where are the emergency beacons that are supposed to trigger if there's an impact. Those two things are big head scratchers to me. Even if an electrical fire it couldn't have knocked out everything right? Radios, navigation, emergency signals.

Have they changed their search patter yet or is everyone still wasting time?

[Ol Crew Dog]

The only thing wrong with that is why not one signal on the radio there's a problem? Also where are the emergency beacons that are supposed to trigger if there's an impact. Those two things are big head scratchers to me. Even if an electrical fire it couldn't have knocked out everything right? Radios, navigation, emergency signals.

Have they changed their search patter yet or is everyone still wasting time?

Not all scenarios are set, could of turned catostrophic, when you are trying to take care of a problem everything turns into an overwhelming feet to handle them all.

ELT's don't have that great of range, there have bee so many aircraft that have disappeared over the US not to be found for years if ever.

The scenario sounds like he set up for a divert, an experienced pilot is always looking for that alternate for any situation. Look up the Gimli Glider, point in case.

Didn't the 777 have electrical problems and was grounded for a god while a few years back, also battery problems.

This is my opinion as with all but the author does sound credible.

Cheers

[Wayfarer 30]

there have bee so many aircraft that have disappeared over the US not to be found for years if ever.

Airliners? Modern airliners?

[nerdling]

Airliners? Modern airliners?

I can't think of any modern airliners that have gone missing over the US. Mostly just small passenger planes like Cessnas and stuff like that. Although there is still a P-40 missing from 1942 here in Oregon.

[Ol Crew Dog]

Airliners? Modern airliners?

Aircraft with 20 passengers and above, yes. Google it

[Ol Crew Dog]

I can't think of any modern airliners that have gone missing over the US. Mostly just small passenger planes like Cessnas and stuff like that. Although there is still a P-40 missing from 1942 here in Oregon.

CBC news web site, planes missing worldwide for the last 50 year

[Ol Crew Dog]

I can't think of any modern airliners that have gone missing over the US. Mostly just small passenger planes like Cessnas and stuff like that. Although there is still a P-40 missing from 1942 here in Oregon.

http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/map-missing-planes/

[nerdling]

http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/map-missing-planes/

Interesting website. Although none of those that went missing over North America really count as modern. Not at least in the terms we are speaking about.

[Ol Crew Dog]

But there has been over North America....

With an aircraft out of radar control it could be anywhere.

Mid-air catostrophic event, explosion, structural failure, or pilot error (controled flight at 460 knots into the water) , take a look at the L1011 that crashed in the Everglades, sorry don't remember flight number on that one.

Flight 800 is a prime example of a catostrphic mid air explosion, still in heated debate but that one was witnessed, 370 has no known witnesses....

Cheers

[Ol Crew Dog]

Disappeared on 2 August 1947 and pieces of wreckage found in the late 90´s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCKTfOLg5Mo

So approximately 50 years disappeared no immediate trace found....

[Ol Crew Dog]

Interesting website. Although none of those that went missing over North America really count as modern. Not at least in the terms we are speaking about.

Still no trace found?