galfa Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I just keep wondering how long, and with how much of their money, people are willing to keep supporting and encouraging such spectacular mediocrity in plastic model kits? "It looks like an XYZ to me" only means one of two things: either you're a shill for the mediocre manufacturer or you're utterly ignorant about the subject. There's nothing wrong with being ignorant and enjoying building a plastic toy airplane. But far too often that becomes "everyone else is just a rivet counter", which implies there is something negative about that, and that the "It looks okay to me" 'crowd has the only correct view. The more people defend absolutely, demonstrably, repeatedly mediocre (at best) products from a manufacturer and keep spending their money on them, the more mediocre products we're going to get. Aren't we glad surgeons don't practice like that? If you got a botched appendectomy, would you say "Well, it feels like an appendectomy to me!" and go on and pay the guy? Mediocre manufacturers poison the well for others who want to do a good job. We're never likely to see a decent, accurate 1/48 MiG-25 in our lifetimes thanks to KH. And I could name a couple of dozen others that fall into the same category. I don't know Mr. Song from Adam, but I do know that while he may be a fine CAD draftsman, he clearly knows next to nothing about real aircraft, he has little or no eye for 3D shapes (translating them from the real world into his CAD), and very little understanding of how to design model assembly kits cleverly and with the builder in mind. Jennings, I would like to thank you dearly for your very much needed post. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Koen L Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Here's a build in progress... so far not so good: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234961637-kittyhawk-f-101-a-voodoo/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Koen L Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 And another: http://imodeler.com/groups/work-in-progress-aircraft/forum/topic/kitty-hawk-f-101ac-148/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Been going through my kit today. In addition to what's already been said about it, here are a few other things: The cockpit is just plain laughable. Looks soooo 1970s. The photo etched parts are useless. Even PE with raised detail, like what Eduard produces, doesn't have enough 3-D relief for 1/48 scale, and KH's is even worse. The Chinese really need to stop it with throwing in PE just for the sake of having PE parts in the kit. The cartoon-like decals that go over them are even worse. If you don't want to wait for someone to release a resin pit, try a Monogram tub with a True Details seat. The F-101's instrument panel is pretty simple, so scratchbuilding one isn't too hard (done it several times). The radome is too large to fit the rest of the nose and looks oddly-shaped on the underside. Perhaps AMS, Steel Beach, or Royale Resin can produce one, based on the Monogram radome. If I can find my scrapped Monogram kit, I may see if that kit's entire nose will plug into the KH fuselage, so you don't have to hassle with getting a good fit if you close the inflight refueling doors. Looks like the Monogram kit and C&H F-101A/C conversion figured heavily in KH's "research." F-101B intakes, as previously mentioned, because they've used the B wing. At least they got the main gear wheels & doors right for a single-seater. Dry-fitting shows some potential fit issues around the lower fuselage. The flame holders for the afterburners need to be almost up against the turbines, not at the opposite ends of the burner can. The nozzles are overly-complex and should have been done without the photo etched parts. More as I find it. Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dylan Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 well I have 4 monogram kits in the stash. they go together really well and all I have is CF-101 decals for them. I will be giving this one a Pass. why is it so difficult for model companies to get this stuff right? I got burned by the DML M-103 and Saturn V kits, and the other KH kits I have are plagued with fit problems and strange engineering (F-35 tails) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JackMan Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 And another: http://imodeler.com/groups/work-in-progress-aircraft/forum/topic/kitty-hawk-f-101ac-148/ His update no. 3 made me lol :lol: It was like reading those old 'Dear Diary, Day1, Day 2.." jokes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bashace Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Started building one of these as well, the fit is about as bad as an Italeri kit, and part of my fuselage wasn't molded completely. The kit definitely yields a buildable Voodoo that requires minor mods, but I don't think it's worth $50+, should be priced slightly higher than the Monogram kit IMHO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 In addition to what's already been said about it, here are a few other things... Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Yes, this kit is way overpriced for the quality. KH has some serious QC problems they need to address. Design issues, too. That's quite a step over there where the gun muzzle parts meet the rest of the nose. And are those sink holes on the undersides of the gun muzzle bulges? Between the sink holes, grainy surface texture, iffy fit, and decals for instrument panels & consoles, KH's kits are on a level with '70s-era Airfix kits. Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ViperDoc Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Doesn't the guy or guys who run KH post on here? I was so excited for this kit, probably more than any other kit in a long time but , WOW! So far this thing really looks bad. I can't believe the quality of the plastic that is being released. I wonder how this kit would work being combined with either the Koster vac kit or the C&H resin sets. Of course for the money I guess you're still better off with using the Monogram kit. So far the only thing I can see going for this kit is recessed panel lines. If Kitty Hawk is listening and paying attention - Get your act together!!! Retool this thing and send out a version 2.0!!!!! We've waited this long, we'll wait a little longer. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Well I am pretty disappointed to see and read what's been posted here and elsewhere about this kit. It was on my list but it's since been scratched off. I will spend my model budget elsewhere. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brad-M Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Well, here's another I'll give a pass to. I wonder if KH will actually produce a kit that fits and is half way accurate?? Brad ps: Had high hopes on the Banshee -3 being nice, but I won't hold my breath. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Well, here's another I'll give a pass to. I wonder if KH will actually produce a kit that fits and is half way accurate?? Brad ps: Had high hopes on the Banshee -3 being nice, but I won't hold my breath. The way things are going with KH, I'm not expecting the F2H-2 and F9F-8 to be anything more than a detail set for the Hawk Banshee and a conversion set for the Monogram Panther. I hope KH will surprise me. Fortunately, I've already built the Collect Aire F2H-3 and F9F-8T, so I won't have to beat those two KH kits into submission. Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dehowie Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 It must be me but all i see is a bunch of guys complaining about a kit that goes together like kits "used to". Steps discovered after being glued?? What it wasn't there when you test fitted it? You do test fit don't you? Test fit..adjust..test fit..adjust test fit glue. Use of styrene strips for support of weak large fuselage joins. Seriously what has happened to modeling as from those images most of that huge sanding and filling should of been avoided prior to glue being used. Seems to me most of the "issues" are construction related and many would not appear if built using a more thorough modeling technique. Poor fit is one thing but ploughing on without regard for it is a recipe for far more hard work than needed. I could never glue a radome on with an existing step. Ever. Fuselage steps need sorting with spacers and sanding prior to committing glue to plastic. KH are not Tamiya some thinking is involved as they are no shake and bake. But some simple modeling techniques would of made this build far far easier for all involved! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanM Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) oops Edited June 5, 2014 by AlanM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanM Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Yeah but I'd expect a little more for a $50 kit. It seems the quality is going down instead of up. Monogram still rules the roost as far as Voodoos go! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brad-M Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I look forward to seeing your WIP of this kit. Should help us greatly. Thanks for replying. Brad It must be me but all i see is a bunch of guys complaining about a kit that goes together like kits "used to". Steps discovered after being glued?? What it wasn't there when you test fitted it? You do test fit don't you? Test fit..adjust..test fit..adjust test fit glue. Use of styrene strips for support of weak large fuselage joins. Seriously what has happened to modeling as from those images most of that huge sanding and filling should of been avoided prior to glue being used. Seems to me most of the "issues" are construction related and many would not appear if built using a more thorough modeling technique. Poor fit is one thing but ploughing on without regard for it is a recipe for far more hard work than needed. I could never glue a radome on with an existing step. Ever. Fuselage steps need sorting with spacers and sanding prior to committing glue to plastic. KH are not Tamiya some thinking is involved as they are no shake and bake. But some simple modeling techniques would of made this build far far easier for all involved! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gene K Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 It must be me but all i see is a bunch of guys complaining about a kit that goes together like kits "used to". Yes, it is you with your typical condescending attitude. I'm also looking forward to your build! Gene K Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Yeah but I'd expect a little more for a $50 kit. It seems the quality is going down instead of up. Monogram still rules the roost as far as Voodoos go! $50 for a large 1/48 scale kit? That's not expensive at all. We have to realize we won't be getting cheap kits anymore. There are 1/72 scale Hasegawa repops that sell for more than $50. The days of picking up newly released 1/48 kits for under $50 are essentially gone. You have the oddities, like the Revell Stearman, but there isn't a whole lot involved with that kit. Heck, Revell sells their 1/48 F-14 kits, which are over 30 years old, for $20. $50 isn't that far off that number, and it's for a brand new kit. You also have to realize that kits aren't being sold in the numbers they used to. A company still has to recoup the cost of cutting the molds, but with far fewer units being sold than in years past. The only way to do that is to raise the price. Think of the F-22. It's so expensive because they didn't make many of them. If the fit of the kit is poor, then that is an issue KH will have to deal with. I'm eagerly awaiting their Cougars and Banshees, poor fit or not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 It must be me but all i see is a bunch of guys complaining about a kit that goes together like kits "used to". Britmodeller builder has stated he doesn't mind hard kits, like vacs. So he certainly knows how to test fit and build models in general. The other guy has built bad kits before too. So, where do i sign up to watch you build a KH F-101? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlanM Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) $50 for a large 1/48 scale kit? That's not expensive at all. We have to realize we won't be getting cheap kits anymore. There are 1/72 scale Hasegawa repops that sell for more than $50. The days of picking up newly released 1/48 kits for under $50 are essentially gone. You have the oddities, like the Revell Stearman, but there isn't a whole lot involved with that kit. Heck, Revell sells their 1/48 F-14 kits, which are over 30 years old, for $20. $50 isn't that far off that number, and it's for a brand new kit. You also have to realize that kits aren't being sold in the numbers they used to. A company still has to recoup the cost of cutting the molds, but with far fewer units being sold than in years past. The only way to do that is to raise the price. Think of the F-22. It's so expensive because they didn't make many of them. If the fit of the kit is poor, then that is an issue KH will have to deal with. I'm eagerly awaiting their Cougars and Banshees, poor fit or not. 3 words...Tamiya 1/48 F-16CJ Edited June 6, 2014 by AlanM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gene K Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 I'm eagerly awaiting their Cougars and Banshees, poor fit or not. I'm certainly with you on that, Darren .... pending "further review". Gene K Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 I'm certainly with you on that, Darren .... pending "further review". Gene K Me too. Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 3 words...Tamiya 1/48 F-16CJ I'm getting old and the brain is going. You'll have to help me out. Are you saying that the Tamiya 1/48 F-16CJ is under $50? The retail at Tamiya USA is $66, and Tower Hobby has it for $54. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChernayaAkula Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 (edited) $50 for a large 1/48 scale kit? That's not expensive at all. We have to realize we won't be getting cheap kits anymore.<...> You might even go a step further and ask whether there ever were days of cheap kits. Sure, the price tags may have been smaller in previous decades, but then again, so were the paychecks (by and large)! Going by the US median income (LINK), a 50$ kit today takes more or less the same bite (percentagewise) out of your income as a 40 $ kit did in 2002, a 30$ kit in 1992, a 20 $ kit in 1982 and a 10$ kit in 1972. Numbers were rounded a bit to fit with the 10 years - 10$ steps, but are largely accurate. Edited June 7, 2014 by ChernayaAkula Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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