Fujimi F-4E rudder profile . .

[TausugAIR]

Hi,to all . . I've mentioned this in my thread "Fujimi nose angle" but didn't get any help there.. So I'm posting it here by itself

Jorge (f4h1phantom)confirmed the Fujimi's nose should drooped(thanks, Jorge!) and I went with it and patterned the drooped from the drawing

But, I can't help noticing the discrepancy of the Fujimi tail to profile/outline in the drawing..

can I assume that the drawing is more true to life than the kit's outline warranting modification to it?!!...

Many, many thanks, once again...

Farouk

[Spectre711]

I don't have any of their E/F models but the B/N kit is slightly off on the tail and quite a bit off on the nose compared to Detail & Scale's drawing.

[Jennings]

..can I assume that the drawing is more true to life than the kit's outline...

In a word, no. Never.

[Tailspin Turtle]

In a word, no. Never.

Never? Not even it's a McAir loft-lines drawing?

[Rex]

One quick fix is to use the fin caps from Hasegawa Phantoms. There are 3 (sometimes 4) spares in each kit. So, if you build an F-4J, you have spares for upgrades to your other company's kits. Now, I said quick, not cheap, although, if you save enough of the Hasegawa spares, you wind up with a lot of plastic parts that you wouldn't have to buy resin parts for, so, it might turn out to save money.

[TausugAIR]

Thanks to the FEED BACKS, kind sirs..

Sincerely,

Farouk

[Ol Crew Dog]

Never? Not even it's a McAir loft-lines drawing?

As with any mylars and lofts they have a tolerances, this tolerance could get worse over the length of the drawing distorting it.

Understandably these tolerances are in 10ths of a thou but still they are there.

No drawing is perfect....

Cheers

[jmel]

The top of the vertical stab on the Fujimi kit is clearly wrong. It should be more in line with the drawing.

[TausugAIR]

The top of the vertical stab on the Fujimi kit is clearly wrong. It should be more in line with the drawing.

Many thanks, Jmel . .

Farouk

[Jennings]

Never? Not even it's a McAir loft-lines drawing?

Not even then. Those drawings are fine for dimensions (the actual numbers), but not for shapes.

[zkalos]

I checked my RF-4E kit from Fujimi, and the outline is good . I think, the only good Fujimi Phantom is the RF series and the British series. The whole fuselage is a new design in the RF. The Vert.stab and the nose profile looks like good to me. The long "E/F/G" and the short "B/C/D/J/N" nosed Phantom's has inaccurate nose and tail profile.

[Rex]

"Never"

?

But, but, some kits agree with the drawing, and other kits don't.

Doesn't that mean that the drawings are better than the kits with the wrong shapes? And it also should mean that drawings are useful.

Geez, I sure hope I can trust SOME drawings, SOME of the time.

Otherwise, this is one weird hobby,,,,,,,,there is an entire industry that sells me two kinds of drawings in one package, constantly.

I buy paper drawings and in that same envelope are a lot of smaller color drawings.

I am now completely stalled trying to figure out how I am going to measure a kit to locate those colored drawing parts onto it.

[Tailspin Turtle]

Not even then. Those drawings are fine for dimensions (the actual numbers), but not for shapes.

Loft-line drawings, not to be confused with station diagrams, like the one I furnished above provide the intention of shape to the master-model maker. They are a lot better than only fine for dimensions. It is true that the shape provided with a stations diagram is not to be trusted (in the following comparison of the two types of engineering drawings, among other things, the F4H stations diagram depicts the fairing aft of the tailhook that was removed early in development as well as only an approximation of the inlet) or even for having the station positions arrayed accurately along the waterline. Prudence also suggests that a loft-line drawing be checked for subsequent production/development changes to the airplane, differential stretch in the vertical and horizontal axes in reproduction, etc. before use.

[Gene K]

I am now completely stalled trying to figure out how I am going to measure a kit to locate those colored drawing parts onto it.

Per The Jennings' oft repeated proclamation, I don't trust his decal "drawings".

Gene K

[Jennings]

Loft line drawings weren't used to make the real airplane. They were most likely done to allow contractors to make display models (not usually required to be dead-nuts accurate) as giveaways at trade shows and to sub-contractors. Boeing's model drawings (even the modern ones like the 777 that were done on CATIA) are notoriously bad. I know it to be a fact that Boeing's loft drawings like those have intentional errors in them. That was told me by the office at Boeing that is responsible for producing them. They want to be able to know who uses them and for what purpose.

So no, never.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Jennings

[Tailspin Turtle]

Loft line drawings weren't used to make the real airplane. They were most likely done to allow contractors to make display models (not usually required to be dead-nuts accurate) as giveaways at trade shows and to sub-contractors. Boeing's model drawings (even the modern ones like the 777 that were done on CATIA) are notoriously bad. I know it to be a fact that Boeing's loft drawings like those have intentional errors in them. That was told me by the office at Boeing that is responsible for producing them. They want to be able to know who uses them and for what purpose.

So no, never.

This is a manufacturer's drawing for a display model:

This is another section of the McDonnell F-4 loft mold line drawing:

Does it look like the kind of detail needed by a display model maker? Note that this is back in the day, before CAD. Loft lines were defined by engineering on paper. Tool make used them to create master models, which might vary a little from the loft line drawings due to tolerances, "smoothing", subsequent design changes, etc. The tools to build parts for the airplane were based on the splashes from the master model. So while it's true that even a loft-line drawing is not "perfect" from a shape definition standpoint in the most extreme sense of the word, I think it's inappropriate to dismiss one out of hand as bordering on useless, like other types of drawings from a manufacturer (not to mention ones created by individuals from overall dimensions and pictures), which is my understanding of your position.