Why are the top modelers mostly from Europe and SE Asia?

[chuck540z3]

Whenever I find a completed aircraft model that just blows me away, it is rarely from North America. That's not to say there aren't modelers in NA that are just as good as anybody else in the world, but to me it's relatively rare. Czech, Italian, German, Greek and other European modelers seem to dominate and the top modeling magazines are from Britain and Europe as well. I would think that with a population of almost 350 million for the US and Canada, we would have more top modelers. Why is that? I have some theories, but I'd like to hear from some of our European and maybe Asian friends before I make up my mind.

Edited March 31, 2014 by chuck540z3

[Bigasshammm]

Current North American society is still very infantile compared to most of Europe and Asia. We've only been around a couple hundred years compared to societies who have been around for millennia. Long standing family traditions of craftsmanship and hobbies are ingrained in their cultures. Where this culture had to start over and build itself up not even 250 years ago. Losing many of those traditions. This may be out there a little but I feel it has merit here and in other circumstances as well. Most of our great engineers, designers, etc imported themselves from Europe and Asia.

On a different note most all of the kit manufacturers are there and I'm sure there is much more exposure to it. Ours is a very entertainment driven society. It's not like that in the rest of the world.

There's still some amazing talent here as well. Possibly even better if you compared 1-1.

[shadoweng]

They might just be more publicized than we are, there are alot of modellers in the US who build but do not show their work. Almost seems sometimes here that you are "weird" if you build models in the US.... Which is odd, all of my Buds give me that "look" when I tell them I build models. but once they see a few they ask "can you build me one".... Just seems more people overseas are into it, the hobby is more alive. I mean I was stationed in Okinawa and There were at least 5 GOOD model shops there and several other places to find models. an that was in a small area. Here outside of St Louis, in the same distance, 2 shops and a Hobby Lobby, when I was in Florida, there were 2 shops within 100 miles.... I mean the Internet has filled the void nicely, but you learn alot just hanging out in the store and chatting with fellow modelers...

my 2 cents..

[SinisterVampire319]

From what I have seen growing up here, is todays generation (Americans.) are just PLAIN LAZY!

They would much rather spend their time on Facebook (Social Media sites.) or IPhones, etc., etc. Than build a model.

The response I get from kids and adults are that they don't have the patience or time to build a model.

As for the funny looks or remarks that I hear of is, "what a bunch of nerds!"

[RiderFan]

Almost seems sometimes here that you are "weird" if you build models in the US.... Which is odd, all of my Buds give me that "look" when I tell them I build models. but once they see a few they ask "can you build me one"....

This. ^^^

There's a stigma in NA that models are just playing with toys. Heck, I've had people say that my business is "printing stickers for toys". And this is from people who's past time it is to play games.

[Joe Hegedus]

This. ^^^

There's a stigma in NA that models are just playing with toys.

Well, unless one is building professionally for commissions, 100%, that's EXACTLY what we're doing. And, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Just like the guys whose hobbies are fishing or golf, or such - they spend their spare time playing with THEIR toys as well - they just happen to have a different shape, and tend to cost a bit more coin.

[echolmberg]

Maybe it's because they have more time to dedicate to the hobby due to their 35 hour work week.

Eric

[ChippyWho]

OK, this is a guess more than anything solid, and a massive generalisation, but I reckon people in Europe and Asia can be a little more focused on one specific pastime that they (certainly the top 30 per cent) pursue obsessively and relentlessly, often to the exclusion of everything else. It can be anything: cars, bikes, video gaming, soccer (very much!) -or here in the UK, booze, drugs and teenage pregnancy! Maybe this is the case in South America also? I mean the hobby thing, of course, not the booze, etc...

From my limited experiences, North Americans and Canadians tend to diversify their leisure interests a lot more. Not to say they don't take 'em all very seriously; they have probably grown up in a culture of greater consumer choice...and, of course, the traditional difference in living standards means they are (mostly) able to afford more than one daft obsession!

Is there really a modelling 'talent gap' between North America and any other nation? Overall, I think not.

[-Neu-]

Based on personal experiences, one thing I've noticed in both Japan and Czech republic is that the demographics of modelling are skewed much younger than in the west. I'd argue the average age of modellers in North America is 50. I suspect its probably 30~40 in those two other countries, with many more youth modellers. In Japan I think that's largely a function of Gundams and other snap together kits, which are insanely popular (which continues to varying degrees in other asian countries). In the Czech republic you have kids building them very young, just for fun. I think there you see more of a tradition of building. I don't really see that in north america... in my IPMS shows the younger individuals are actually asian in origin. That youth element also may be more inclined to show off their work on social media, which may make it seem that there are more of them.

Maybe it's because they have more time to dedicate to the hobby due to their 35 hour work week. :whistle:/>/>/>

Eric

Doubt it. Japanese work long hours (much of it unpaid or in time we would consider overtime) while the Czechs are among the highest weekly rates in Europe: around 42 or so. There just is more of a tradition in both, and that breeds more innovation in the trade.

I'll give you one very cool example from Japan. This modeller actually built a fictional mecha from Macross like it would appear in an anime:

http://www.fg-site.net/archives/3021338

Yes people, that's a model, not a cell from the actual TV show. You see tons of stuff like that, I don't see it in North America.

Edited March 31, 2014 by -Neu-

[CorsairMan]

Why are the top modelers mostly from Europe and SE Asia?

I think this is the basis for a new reality contest show - TOP MODELER!

Can someone make a contest winning model in the time it takes to do a 30 minute episode? Could a team do it?

[john53]

As a kid back in the 60s it was OK, but as I got older you almost were

a "closet modeler". Everyone thought they were toys, dam expensive and

time consuming toys. My grandmother considered them dust collectors. I

to this day only mention my hobby to trusted mature friends or fellow

modelers.I think it is just we never "matured" as a culture .That and

all the "political correctness" seems to put a lot of pressure on whats

right and whats wrong, I don't thing we learned a dam thing from history

some times. ---John

[streetstream]

Maybe it's because they have more time to dedicate to the hobby due to their 35 hour work week. :whistle:/>/>

Eric

35? Try 44 without overtime.

Edited March 31, 2014 by streetstream

[Bigasshammm]

35? Try 44 without overtime.

I'm lucky to get 17hours a week.

That's paid time though. Not counting the 50+ hours a week I spend taking care of my girls.

[Hajo L.]

I really wonder why no one is challenging the general statement in the opening post! I´d say that there are (at least) the same number of talented and excellent builders in NA than there are in Europe. Until no one shows me the numbers, I´ll stick to that claim! ;)

HAJO

[streetstream]

I really wonder why no one is challenging the general statement in the opening post! I´d say that there are (at least) the same number of talented and excellent builders in NA than there are in Europe. Until no one shows me the numbers, I´ll stick to that claim! ;)/>

HAJO

I actually agree with you. I just think it is a perception problem.

[trojansamurai]

I don't think the original post is necessarily true. Having lived in both the U.S. and Japan, and met with European modelers, I don't think there is a noticeable talent gap at the TOP.

Where there may be some differences is where modelers from certain countries place their emphasis. I'm sure the following GENERALIZATIONS will stir up debate, but these are my personal observations of AVERAGE MODELERS. Can't speak on behalf of non-Japanese Asian modelers, so the observations are limited to Japanese modelers.

- Western modelers: Really get into detail like cockpits, open access hatches, landing gear; will spend a lot on aftermarket products, often exceeding the cost of the kit.

- Japanese modelers: Will scratch build details to a certain degree, but not nearly as much as Westerners; will spend modeling skills more on fixing errors on the kit; typically don't spend a lot on aftermarket.

- Western modelers: Like to get into weathering, pre-shading and building a subject to depict a certain aircraft flown by a certain pilot, flown for a specific mission, etc. and can include a display, such as ground accessories and dioramas; the build quality and smoothness of paint finish may sometimes take a back seat.

- Japanese modelers: Tend to go for flawless assembly and paint finish, but are a lot less weathered and sometimes may have a sterile look to them (like how they appear in Tamiya and Hasegawa catalogs).

An interesting comment made by several Japanese modelers on why they don't use aftermarket parts: "Most of the time, they're no better than what I can do myself, and they have fit problems. I can control the amount of added detail by scratch building necessary parts, so that it stays in balance with detail level of the rest of the model. Also, the production quality of many after market parts is so rough that it actually spoils the overall model, despite the added detail."

[chuck540z3]

Almost seems sometimes here that you are "weird" if you build models in the US.... Which is odd, all of my Buds give me that "look" when I tell them I build models. but once they see a few they ask "can you build me one"....

That was my guess, that in NA modeling is often viewed as "playing with toys", while in other counties the hobby is more respected as an art form. I am also a bit careful who I tell that I model, because of this stigma.

- Western modelers: Really get into detail like cockpits, open access hatches, landing gear; will spend a lot on aftermarket products, often exceeding the cost of the kit.

To extend that thought, I think European modelers spend way more time on open hatches and internal details than Western modelers. Sometimes I see all sorts of gory internal plumbing and wiring which must have taken hundreds of hours, but the overall model is just so-so.

[chomper]

I agree with a couple other posters here. Far too many people think we sit and play with toys, complete with engine and machine gun sound effects. I like to

think of it as recreating history in miniature. And, BTW, some of my friends would give these Europeans and Asians a run for their money. There are top notch

modelers all over the world, not just specific areas.

[TaiidanTomcat]

Why are the top modelers mostly from Europe and SE Asia?

I think this is the basis for a new reality contest show - TOP MODELER!

Can someone make a contest winning model in the time it takes to do a 30 minute episode? Could a team do it?

"In your baskets you'll find a Starfix Spitfire"

[thegoodsgt]

I've theorized that it has something to do with an inclusion of art education in European schools. To those of you who grew up in European countries, was art something that was part of your educational experience? Here in the US it's not (other than in college, but even there it's an elective).

Steven Brown

Scale Model Soup

[Darren Roberts]

Just out of curiosity, how does one define a "top modeler". Is it an artistic finish with inky-black panel lines? Some drool over the "Spanish method" finish. While it looks artistic, it isn't close to being realistic. Yet some would deem these as top models. What if a kit is perfectly constructed but with no weathering? Would it be considered a top model? The biggest factor is what people build for. This is a hobby, and people get enjoyment out of different areas. I understand where the original question was going, but I think there are too many variables. In the end, modelers who produce excellent works of art probably have some kind of art background or natural talent that leans that way. I've always thought there was a certain ceiling that could be attained my most modelers unless they had that artistic eye. I've seen plenty of excellent builds here in the US that rival anything in other countries.

[chuck540z3]

Just out of curiosity, how does one define a "top modeler". Is it an artistic finish with inky-black panel lines? Some drool over the "Spanish method" finish. While it looks artistic, it isn't close to being realistic. Yet some would deem these as top models. What if a kit is perfectly constructed but with no weathering? Would it be considered a top model? The biggest factor is what people build for. This is a hobby, and people get enjoyment out of different areas. I understand where the original question was going, but I think there are too many variables. In the end, modelers who produce excellent works of art probably have some kind of art background or natural talent that leans that way. I've always thought there was a certain ceiling that could be attained my most modelers unless they had that artistic eye. I've seen plenty of excellent builds here in the US that rival anything in other countries.

Admittedly, this is very hard to define and while I could site some examples that are very pleasing to my eye, somebody else might say they suck because they don't like the weathering, etc. Having said that, no matter what your preferences are, think of the top 10 models you've seen in the last 2 years. I bet most of them are from Europe. Also, when considering what is a great build, photography is a big factor. If the pics are super sharp and there are many close-ups only inches away and you still love what you see, chances are it really is a great model. Too often pics are taken from 2 feet away and you really can't tell how well it is built, weathered and finished.

[TaiidanTomcat]

Admittedly, this is very hard to define and while I could site some examples that are very pleasing to my eye, somebody else might say they suck because they don't like the weathering, etc. Having said that, no matter what your preferences are, think of the top 10 models you've seen in the last 2 years. I bet most of them are from Europe. Also, when considering what is a great build, photography is a big factor. If the pics are super sharp and there are many close-ups only inches away and you still love what you see, chances are it really is a great model. Too often pics are taken from 2 feet away and you really can't tell how well it is built, weathered and finished.

Maybe they're just better photographers?

[Harrier/Viper Fan]

Problem I find is that Kids/teens/adults these days prefer games consoles or PC gaming to doing something creative. I have been into models since I was a young boy and never really get bored of it. I do have my ruts and swaps in genres but I always end up where I started F-16's and Harriers. A lot of my friends when I was growing up also built models and most of the time we ended up having challenges between use. Now they don't have time or lost interest and mainly prefer the gaming world.

[Litvyak]

Problem I find is that Kids/teens/adults these days prefer games consoles or PC gaming to doing something creative. I have been into models since I was a young boy and never really get bored of it. I do have my ruts and swaps in genres but I always end up where I started F-16's and Harriers. A lot of my friends when I was growing up also built models and most of the time we ended up having challenges between use. Now they don't have time or lost interest and mainly prefer the gaming world.

I'm not sure about that... I know a fair number of twentysomethings who are tabletop wargaming which involved building and painting the figures. That too is modelling of a sort.