dehowie Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Thats because very few flew C's the E and on are very different birds. Late Mirage users that i know. Argentina with combat history both III's and Daggers. Australia..i mean most of a late Mirage III run woukd sell just to Aussie modelers who have bought every Italeri E off every shelf every time its been released and waited years for a good late Mirage. Brazil Belgium Chile Colombia France huge numbe of special schemes. Spain Pakistan Peru South Africa combat against Mig-23's. Switzerland Venezuala They are just a start all operated late E's and derivatives. Very few people I know care about the C unless your an Israeli fan and there is far less of them than late E fans..far less. Bring on the late Mirage's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mfezi Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Thats because very few flew C's the E and on are very different birds. Late Mirage users that i know. ... South Africa combat against Mig-23's. ... As far as I am aware, the SAAF Mirage IIIEZs either didn't see service at all in Angola, or only very briefly in the early stages of the war. The Mirage IIICZ, on the other hand, did see quite a bit of service in Angola with 2 Squadron, even into the 1980's. However, in late 1974 most of the Mirage IIIEZ's were tranferred from 3 Squadron to what is today 85 Combat Flying School, while the SAAF only started to operate Mirages in Angola in 1978. Those Mirages belonged to 2 Squadron and as far as I know they were all Mirage IIICZ's. I don't think I have ever seen a photo of a Mirage IIIEZ in Angola, but I'll try to find out whether 2 Squadron still had some by the time they started operating in Angola and, if so, whether any of them saw service there. It is doubtful though. Towards the end of the conflict, the Mirage IIIEZ's that used to belong to 85 CFS were being converted to Cheetah E's, which also never saw active duty in Angola. If you want to build a SAAF Mirage III model that saw service in Angola, it would probably have to be a IIICZ, -RZ or -R2Z (the R2Z's were used, as far as I am aware, in the reconnaissance role in Angola until quite late into the conflict). As for combat against MiG-23's: I am not aware of any combat between a MiG-23 and a SAAF Mirage III of any type in Angola. As far as I know all air combat against the MiG-23 were by Mirage F1CZ's and, perhaps, a few that involved the Mirage F1AZ, but I don't think the Mirages F1s ever scored a confirmed kill against a MiG-23, while one mirage F1CZ was badly damaged by a MiG-23, and the pilot was paralyzed when his ejection seat inadvertently activated during his subsequent emergency landing. There were a few MiG-23s that suffered close escapes or damage against SAAF Mirages, but again all combat was with the Mirage F1CZ or F1AZ. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Siegfriedt Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 I'm so in a hurry to get this model ! You may add Egypt, Liban, Israel of course with the nesher and dagger. And I totally agree with you about the E fans ! It will be a success this kit ! Thats because very few flew C's the E and on are very different birds. Late Mirage users that i know. Argentina with combat history both III's and Daggers. Australia..i mean most of a late Mirage III run woukd sell just to Aussie modelers who have bought every Italeri E off every shelf every time its been released and waited years for a good late Mirage. Brazil Belgium Chile Colombia France huge numbe of special schemes. Spain Pakistan Peru South Africa combat against Mig-23's. Switzerland Venezuala They are just a start all operated late E's and derivatives. Very few people I know care about the C unless your an Israeli fan and there is far less of them than late E fans..far less. Bring on the late Mirage's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F4DPhantomII Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Very nice. This is the most anticipated release of all time for me. Can't wait! Who is kit manufacturer again? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Random and probably stupid question - on the box art, is that French IIIE carrying AIM-9L's? Looks that way to me. I thought the French used the MAGIC series of IR missiles? Great box art by the way. On another probably stupid question - what would it take to build an Argentine Falklands War Dagger from the base kit? Hopefully they will provide the appropriate bombs for the Argie version. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
squezzer Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) You are right, it seems that the missiles are 9-L. We never had this type in the french air force inventory. Moreover, the Mirage is in NMF finish, it means that the action on the boxart takes place in the 60's as the Mirage weared a NATO (kind of) camouflage circa 1970. The 9-L entered in service at the end of the 70s. Therefore, Mirage IIIE in NMF should be equipped with 9-B winders or Matra 530 on the centerline. The MAGIC I was introduced circa 1976. Edited October 19, 2014 by squezzer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mingwin Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 nice boxart! and if this mean that we can build two different variant in FAF service i'll buy it as soon as it shows at LM! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ModelPeek Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) Irrelevant to topic. Edited October 19, 2014 by ModelPeek Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the info on the box art. Really looking forward to this kit! Edited October 19, 2014 by 11bee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FCM Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) What would it take to build an Argentine Falklands War Dagger from the base kit? Hopefully they will provide the appropriate bombs for the Argie version. Argentinean Dagger will be one of the options among the kit parts. But I am not sure about the bombs... Edited October 19, 2014 by FCM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat Fan Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 We ALSO need one new Mirage III in 1/32 scale... :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FCM Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) We ALSO need one new Mirage III in 1/32 scale... :)/>/> Totally agree... The old and hard to find Revell kit is needing to be retired... Edited October 19, 2014 by FCM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
squezzer Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) I don't recall making any connection between the quality of the kit and box art (which I rather liked, BTW). Don't be so defensive; given the history of new kits and their reception on ARC, there will be plenty of other folks out there to focus your sarcasm on on ce detailed pics are released. My only question was whether AdA IIIE's flew with AIM-9L's and it was answered by another poster. It was not a sarcasm, just an information to point that there was a major inaccuracy on this boxart. I did not link this inaccuracy to the quality of the kit itself. Edited October 19, 2014 by squezzer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) It was not a sarcasm, just an information to point that there was a major inaccuracy on this boxart. I did not link this inaccuracy to the quality of the kit itself. Wasn't geared towards you Squezzer, it was towards a previous post that was edited, as was mine. It's all good! Edited October 19, 2014 by 11bee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
squezzer Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Ok. No problem on my side. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hoosfoos Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) You are right, it seems that the missiles are 9-L. We never had this type in the french air force inventory. Moreover, the Mirage is in NMF finish, it means that the action on the boxart takes place in the 60's as the Mirage weared a NATO (kind of) camouflage circa 1970. The 9-L entered in service at the end of the 70s. Therefore, Mirage IIIE in NMF should be equipped with 9-B winders or Matra 530 on the centerline. The MAGIC I was introduced circa 1976. Edited October 19, 2014 by Hoosfoos Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Why the facepalm? He was simply answering a question I asked about the missiles shown on the box art. Not a big deal..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dehowie Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Hey Mfezi nice info however a small one to add. The guy who did my A-330 line training almost ten years ago an ex Air Force guy ejected from a IIIE on take off in Angolan ops and has the pics to tell and show the story. Oh and yep we need a 32nd E series as well! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mfezi Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Hey Mfezi nice info however a small one to add. The guy who did my A-330 line training almost ten years ago an ex Air Force guy ejected from a IIIE on take off in Angolan ops and has the pics to tell and show the story. Oh and yep we need a 32nd E series as well! Which year was that, DeHowie? I am only aware of one ejection from a Mirage IIIEZ: Lt. Ren Colyn ejected near Baragwanath Hospital on 15 March 1969, but that was long before any Mirages were deployed to Angola. After they were converted to Cheetah E's, there were also two ejections from Cheetah E's: Reinier Keet on 20 October 1990 and IC Jones on 17 June 1991. That happened long after the Angolan conflict, of course. Are you sure the pictures he showed you were not from a different version or taken at a different location? If you can PM me his name, I can follow up (I might even know him...) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Mfezi ? I believe that the kit will come with parts to do an R. Appart from the decals, what would be necessary to do an R2Z ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niki4703 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) :lol: Relax everyone and enjoy waiting for a promising kit. I'm sure the face palm was in connection to the fact that funny details keep appearing on the eve of the release of new and highly expected kits. It has nothing to do with the kit itself (that will shall still get to see) but rather with the concept of a 'job well done - front to end'. Nobody really dismisses the kit producer (nor the artist) as 'bad' for such hiccups. They're just an excuse for a bit of laugh, nothing serious :) Edited October 20, 2014 by niki4703 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mfezi Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Mfezi ? I believe that the kit will come with parts to do an R. Appart from the decals, what would be necessary to do an R2Z ? Hi Laurent. The Mirage III R2Z had an Atar 9K-50 engine (similar to those on the Mirage F1s), and there were some changes associated with that installation. The nozzle is fairly similar to the Atar 09C, but the intakes had to be modified for the increased airflow. I would have to go check my references, but I seem to recall in the case of the Mirage III R2Z, the intake nozzle was cut back slightly to increase the intake cross-sectional area, and a boundary layer splitter plate with a more curved profile was used. Another very obvious difference is that the Mirage III R2Z did not have the large doppler fairing under the nose. There were also differences in the antenna arrangement and in particular the arrangement of the antennas on the vertical tail. Finally, there were various differences in the cockpit, some associated with the engine change, but I believe there were also other differences in the avionics. There may be other details that I missed, but I think these are the main ones. Internally, I think there were also some differences in the tank arrangement, but that you won't see on a model. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 and a boundary layer splitter plate with a more curved profile was used. The M50 Pantera also has this type of splitter plate Source: http://archivomirage.blogspot.fr/2010/10/los-mirage-50-pantera-de-chile.html Source: http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/2/t/131448.aspx Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mfezi Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Laurent - that's it, that's what I remember. You can also see the sleeker nose without the big Doppler fairing in the pictures. The intake modification would probably be the trickiest to do if you were going to modify it to a Mirage IIIR2Z, but it is quite doable. It would be nice if someone could provide a resin part (or even in plastic in a future release). The rest of the differences are all fairly easy to do with a bit of scratch building (antennas and other small details). I guess it would also depend whether it comes with the Doppler fairing moulded on or separate. The whole process should be relatively simple as far as home-made conversions go. I seem to recall one of my friends did that in 1/72nd scale - when I see him again I'll ask him if there were any other differences that I missed. Of course, the SAAF did use the older RZ, and there are quite a few nice schemes to choose from for that version. There is the camouflage similar to the picture that you posted of the R2Z, and at least one of them had a shark mouth over the Doppler fairing. Then there were also some of them that were delivered in an unusual green/grey NATO colour scheme, which wasn't used by any other SAAF aircraft. So, you have quite a few nice options even if you wanted to build a "standard" Mirage IIIRZ. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niki4703 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Thanks for the heads-up, Luis! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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