Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Hello All,

For a research project, I am trying to determine which AH-1 Cobra units were stationed at/near the Fulda Gap in West Germany in the early 1980s. I presume they would've employed S-models during that time frame, as I believe the Q-models had all been replaced by that time, at least in Europe anyway. Ultimately, I need help determining which TOW-equipped units would've been the first to see action if the Cold War had gone hot and the Soviets had begun rolling tanks through the area to commence an attack. The unit designators, unit names ("Vipers", etc.), and the relevant bases are crucial, as well as any unique aircraft markings, colors, etc. for those particular units. Any help would be greatly appreciated - thanks in advance!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello All,

For a research project, I am trying to determine which AH-1 Cobra units were stationed at/near the Fulda Gap in West Germany in the early 1980s. I presume they would've employed S-models during that time frame, as I believe the Q-models had all been replaced by that time, at least in Europe anyway. Ultimately, I need help determining which TOW-equipped units would've been the first to see action if the Cold War had gone hot and the Soviets had begun rolling tanks through the area to commence an attack. The unit designators, unit names ("Vipers", etc.), and the relevant bases are crucial, as well as any unique aircraft markings, colors, etc. for those particular units. Any help would be greatly appreciated - thanks in advance!

Perhaps I can assist you with some of the stuff you need. I was a Cobra pilot during the 70's in an Air Cav unit at Finthen (74-78) D Troop 3/8 Cav. We had G's and then Mod S's. You can see me at a Static Display in 1978 here. I went back to Germany in 1984 and by then everyone had the Fully Modernized AH-1's. Can't remember if these USAREUR units every had the ECAS as it couldn't shoot rockets. No intervalometers.

http://s1172.photobucket.com/user/stevensgt33/library

The two Aviation border units were the 11 ACR in Fulda (Bad Hersfeld), and the 2nd ACR at Feucht. These were the only USAREUR aviation units that could operate within the 5K zone along the border. And you had to be "border qualified" to fly the border. It was a qualification. So to answer your question "determining which TOW-equipped units would've been the first to see action if the Cold War had gone hot" it would have been these units. Maybe that will get you started.

Regards, GT

Edited by AH6C-SIP
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello All,

For a research project, I am trying to determine which AH-1 Cobra units were stationed at/near the Fulda Gap in West Germany in the early 1980s. I presume they would've employed S-models during that time frame, as I believe the Q-models had all been replaced by that time, at least in Europe anyway. Ultimately, I need help determining which TOW-equipped units would've been the first to see action if the Cold War had gone hot and the Soviets had begun rolling tanks through the area to commence an attack. The unit designators, unit names ("Vipers", etc.), and the relevant bases are crucial, as well as any unique aircraft markings, colors, etc. for those particular units. Any help would be greatly appreciated - thanks in advance!

Here's the units with Germany-based Cobras in Feb 91. You can assume that many of these units (but not all) were also in Germany in the '80s and cross-reference from there:

B CO 8 BN 158 AVN

4 SQ 11 ACR

4 SQ 2 ACR

I CO 4 AVN BDE

I CO 4 AVN 8 ID

3/12 CAV

1/1 CAV 1 AD

200TH TAMMC

3 BN 3 AVN 3 ID

A CO 7 BN 159 AVN

B CO 7 BN 159 AVN

I CO 1 AVN 1 ID

3/7 CAV 8 ID

4/4 CAV 3 ID

BTW, all the Cobras in Germany in Feb 91 were AH-1Fs.

John Hairell (tpn18@yahoo.com)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, many thanks to all of you for your input! Very helpful.

Cheers,

Hey Ray, hope all goes well with you. I believe you knew that I spent some nine years, flying Cobra's in Europe, so as a historian, let me know if there is any "hysterical" data that I can provide you.

Best, GT

Edited by AH6C-SIP
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Ray, hope all goes well with you. I believe you knew that I spent some nine years, flying Cobra's in Europe, so as a historian, let me know if there is any "hysterical" data that I can provide you.

Best, GT

Thanks, GT! Yes, all is well these days. This info is for a specific project, which I will share with everyone in the forum later, probably in the early Summer. Having had one ride in a Cobra (F-model) and loved it, I can only imagine getting paid to do it!

Regards,

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, GT! Yes, all is well these days. This info is for a specific project, which I will share with everyone in the forum later, probably in the early Summer. Having had one ride in a Cobra (F-model) and loved it, I can only imagine getting paid to do it!

Regards,

Gosh, where did you find a F Model, Most are sold overseas... Only ones I know flying are the Heritage ones, and I believe one at Eustis. Looking back Ray, I think I would have done it for free! All this, and flight pay! My God, I'd do it all over again... it's that much fun. But...I love my Little Bird Guns the best. Happy Easter, GT

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, GT! Yes, all is well these days. This info is for a specific project, which I will share with everyone in the forum later, probably in the early Summer. Having had one ride in a Cobra (F-model) and loved it, I can only imagine getting paid to do it!

Regards,

Best job in the Army. Easily the most fun with your pants on...and even sometimes without them too. LOL

The thing about the Army in the 80-90s is that they change designations so often it is hard to pin down the unit designation. I was in three different attack battalions in three years and I never left the command or same hangar.

C Company 308th

B Company 503rd Attack Battalion Erlensee-Langendiebach

B Company 2/227th Attack Battalion

Floyd

Edited by Floyd S. Werner, Jr.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Gosh, where did you find a F Model, Most are sold overseas... Only ones I know flying are the Heritage ones, and I believe one at Eustis. Looking back Ray, I think I would have done it for free! All this, and flight pay! My God, I'd do it all over again... it's that much fun. But...I love my Little Bird Guns the best. Happy Easter, GT

GT,

Yep, the one I rode in belonged to the Army Aviation Heritage Foundation. It was at the annual Vectren Dayton Air Show back in July 2010. I still remember it like it was yesterday. My pilot was Skip Lam, a Vietnam veteran with many, many hours on the AH-1 and the OH-6. Unfortunately, the very same aircraft in which I flew experienced a crash only a few months afterwards during the filming of an episode of Top Gear. You can find hi-res footage here; the crash takes place right at the one minute mark:

Thankfully, both crewmembers crawled out of the wreckage, a testament to the ruggedness of the Cobra. I have no idea of the pilots' names or the cause of the accident, but I am really glad no one was killed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

GT,

Yep, the one I rode in belonged to the Army Aviation Heritage Foundation. It was at the annual Vectren Dayton Air Show back in July 2010. I still remember it like it was yesterday. My pilot was Skip Lam, a Vietnam veteran with many, many hours on the AH-1 and the OH-6. Unfortunately, the very same aircraft in which I flew experienced a crash only a few months afterwards during the filming of an episode of Top Gear. You can find hi-res footage here; the crash takes place right at the one minute mark:

Thankfully, both crewmembers crawled out of the wreckage, a testament to the ruggedness of the Cobra. I have no idea of the pilots' names or the cause of the accident, but I am really glad no one was killed.

That was an ugly crash. One shouldn't try and whip that 9000 pound a/c around like that. But you are right, the AH-1 is pretty durable. Here are a couple of photos of mine in 1972 after the t/r and 90 degree gearbox "left" the aircraft. Good thing it was the monsoon season and the rice paddies were filled with water.

Slide1_zpsba442f82.jpg

Slide4_zpsf32b10a0.jpg

TRFailureatChauDuc1_zps4b3214ac.jpg

Slide2_zps8e923a7e.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

TRFailureatChauDuc1_zps4b3214ac.jpg

Nice looking Cobra (at least it was before it got bent). If we ever get a decent 1/35th model of one, maybe I'll take a shot a building your helo. Got any pics of her pre-incident?

Edited by 11bee
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

The two Aviation border units were the 11 ACR in Fulda (Bad Hersfeld), and the 2nd ACR at Feucht. These were the only USAREUR aviation units that could operate within the 5K zone along the border. And you had to be "border qualified" to fly the border. It was a qualification. So to answer your question "determining which TOW-equipped units would've been the first to see action if the Cold War had gone hot" it would have been these units. Maybe that will get you started.

Regards, GT

For my research project, I've decided to go with the 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment, specifically, B Troop, 2nd Combat Aviation Squadron based at Feucht Army Airfield. Now I need to decide which insignia would be relevant, which brings to mind two questions:

1) What type of insignia or markings did the AH-1s themselves carry? I believe I've seen one from the 1980 timeframe with crossed sabers and a '2' centered above them, painted on the fuselage below the cockpits.

2) Can anyone please provide images (via web link or by way of an e-mail attachment) the relevant unit crests, heraldic emblems, etc.? My online searches tend to hit on current designations, versus that of the predecessor units. For example, the unit is apparently now known as the 2nd Stryker Cavalry Regiment, so I cannot be sure if the emblems have changed since 1981.

Essentially, I'm seeking the proper unit emblems to display in the border of a lithograph for an AH-1 from that unit and time period, similar to Floyd Werner's excellent AH-1F found here:

http://www.wernerswings.com/images/DesertStormCobra.jpg

Again, any help would be GREATLY appreciated...thanks!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 7 years later...

Hi.

 

I’m a docent with the Evergreen Aviation and Space Museum (home of the Spruce Goose) and I’m working on developing the history of one of our exhibits - an AH-1 Cobra, serial number 69-16434.

I have some of its history at the beginning of its service life, but am missing information about it after the Vietnam War:

The Cobra, serial # 69-16434, construction #20866, was built as an AH-1G for the U.S. Army and saw combat in Vietnam during 1971 with A-Troop, 7th Squadron of the 1st Air Cavalry: “The Apaches.” Its nose art carried the name 96 Tears. Operating mostly in the 44th Special Tactical Zone near the Cambodian border, the unit was tasked with interdicting supplies and North Vietnamese troops coming into South Vietnam.

Postwar, it was returned to the United States and updated to the AH-1S (transfer docs from US Army say AH-1J) standard with an armored canopy and the capability of launching TOW missiles. It was later modified as it appears in the Museum, to AH-1F standards with "head-up” displays and a laser rangefinder.

It was photographed at Kiel Holtenau (KEL / EDHK), by German Photographer: Erik Frikke  on 07/09/1986. Probably because it was with one of the two Aviation border units —the 11 ACR in Fulda (Bad Hersfeld), and the 2nd ACR at Feucht— stationed there. These were the only USAREUR aviation units that could operate within the 5K zone along the border. With its TOW capabilities, it would have been the first to see action if the Cold War had gone hot.

In June 2006, it was placed on display at Evergreen. It is on loan from the U.S. Army Tank & Automotive Command (TACOM).

Can you give me any of its history after its SEA deployment?

I suspect it was modified in the states sometime in the 1970s and then shipped to Europe in the late 70s and served there throughout the 1980s along the West German border, but I have no proof. Also, can you tell me what happened to it after it was demobed in Europe? Was it assigned to Army NG units? Did it sit at AMARG? Dates and locations would help round out our records.

Any information you could give me would be of great help in developing a narrative that I can pass along to the Museum’s 500,000 annual visitors.

Thank you.

Keith Riggs, docent
Evergreen Aviation and Space Museum
https://www.evergreenmuseum.org/
McMinnville, Oregon
541-680-1044 (personal phone)

keithdriggs@gmail.com (personal email)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I won´t be of any help, but I wonder why it has been at Kiel (where it was photographed in 1986). To give some context, Kiel is located in the north of Germany, at the baltic coast, in the the state of Schleswig-Holstein. Schleswig-Holstein was dubbed "Germanys Unsinkable Aircraft Carrier", since it hosted several Luftwaffe and Naval Aviation Bases during the Cold War. Kiel was home of the Naval Aviation Wing 5 (Marinefliegergeschwader 5), operating the Seaking MK.41 in mainly a SAR-role during the 1980ies, but they used it also for naval support and transport duties.

Maybe they had an Open Day in 1986 where the US Army paid a visit with that Cobra? Living in Schleswig-Holstein since I was born in 1975 until 2011 and beeing very interested in helicopters I never noticed any US Army presence in "my state". I lived very close to the inner-german border and usually only saw the Alouette IIs, Bell 212s and Pumas of the German Border Service (Bundesgrenzschutz) and occasionally the Mi-24 of "the other side" patrolling the iron curtain.

 

 

HAJO

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Hajo L. said:

I won´t be of any help, but I wonder why it has been at Kiel (where it was photographed in 1986). To give some context, Kiel is located in the north of Germany, at the baltic coast, in the the state of Schleswig-Holstein. Schleswig-Holstein was dubbed "Germanys Unsinkable Aircraft Carrier", since it hosted several Luftwaffe and Naval Aviation Bases during the Cold War. Kiel was home of the Naval Aviation Wing 5 (Marinefliegergeschwader 5), operating the Seaking MK.41 in mainly a SAR-role during the 1980ies, but they used it also for naval support and transport duties.

Maybe they had an Open Day in 1986 where the US Army paid a visit with that Cobra? Living in Schleswig-Holstein since I was born in 1975 until 2011 and beeing very interested in helicopters I never noticed any US Army presence in "my state". I lived very close to the inner-german border and usually only saw the Alouette IIs, Bell 212s and Pumas of the German Border Service (Bundesgrenzschutz) and occasionally the Mi-24 of "the other side" patrolling the iron curtain.

 

 

HAJO

If you check out the middle pic here, you'll see from other aircraft in the background it does appear to be participating in an air show/open house:

https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/registration/69-16434

What's really unusual is it's carrying a slightly smaller 'low-vis' version of the gold nose-to-tail Cobra design worn by the AH-1W 'Supercobra' prototype...

Edited by andyf117
Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, andyf117 said:

If you check out the middle pic here, you'll see from other aircraft in the background it does appear to be participating in an air show/open house:

https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/registration/69-16434

What's really unusual is it's carrying a slightly smaller 'low-vis' version of the gold nose-to-tail Cobra design worn by the AH-1W 'Supercobra' prototype...

What an awesome looking Cobra.   If ICM ever gets around doing later version snakes, I would love to try to build one.   Also, glad to see she ended up in a museum.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/22/2014 at 4:53 PM, 11bee said:

Nice looking Cobra (at least it was before it got bent). If we ever get a decent 1/35th model of one, maybe I'll take a shot a building your helo. Got any pics of her pre-incident?

We’ll I do sell a 1/32nd scale conversion for the AH-1F.  Just sayin.  LOL

Floyd

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/5/2021 at 10:45 AM, andyf117 said:

If you check out the middle pic here, you'll see from other aircraft in the background it does appear to be participating in an air show/open house:

https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/registration/69-16434

What's really unusual is it's carrying a slightly smaller 'low-vis' version of the gold nose-to-tail Cobra design worn by the AH-1W 'Supercobra' prototype...

434 was assigned to A Co., 503rd Attack Battalion based at Fliegerhorst in Erlensee-Langendiebach in 1985-1988.

 

I want to say it was painted by CW2 Ragsdale for the BN CO LTC Tommy A Green.

Floyd

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...

69-16434 was seen, in non-flying condition, at Silver Bell AHP, Marana, AZ, in October of 1996. I was there in February 1998, but didn't see it (which doesn't imply it wasn't there).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...