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Hi, needed to take a break from the LM. There's that point where I start losing interest and advance very slowly. I felt that maybe working on other models might bring back my enthusiasm. I wanted to try building an LLRV - just a rough model (don't know how far I could detail it). I'll be starting with a rough model of the CF-700 engine on a gimbal. Or maybe that's all I'd be able to finish : ) It will be an interesting build for me as there are some cone shapes here - that will be my first challenge to build in styrene.

xb3lHfb.jpg

frFMLDd.jpg

Qk9jSXH.jpg

u2vanjc.jpg

pkdcSlR.jpg

bJpITXx.jpg

Edited by crackerjazz
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This is a very nice surprise!

Is this gonna be the PE kit or all-l-l built from scratch? ... and ... uh ... can you even DO a rough build? ;) I mean ... it's gonna be about 9" long eh?

I understand your need for a break from the big LM ... and this'll be a nice little spark to re-invigorate the LM ... hopefully!

Glad to se ya here crackerjazz!

Pete

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Hi Pete, thanks! ummmm.....just scratchbuilt. I'm ashamed to admit it - but I have no experience with PE. The midsection without the cockpit and electronics bays - just the distance between front and rear legs is around 9" (8.8 inches). But with the head and tail, it comes to almost 15 inches. I'll be posting my progress in the main section - hope that's ok.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi, needed to take a break from the LM. There's that point where I start losing interest and advance very slowly. I felt that maybe working on other models might bring back my enthusiasm. I wanted to try building an LLRV - just a rough model (don't know how far I could detail it). I'll be starting with a rough model of the CF-700 engine on a gimbal. Or maybe that's all I'd be able to finish : ) It will be an interesting build for me as there are some cone shapes here - that will be my first challenge to build in styrene.

xb3lHfb.jpg

frFMLDd.jpg

Qk9jSXH.jpg

u2vanjc.jpg

pkdcSlR.jpg

bJpITXx.jpg

Hi,

Awesome choice for a model!

I'm blown away with how your method of developing your cad drawings!

Do you mind sharing what software(s) you used to develop the 3D cad using the 2d templates?

I'm an amature cad user and this looks like something that could really be useful to me.

thanks.

Ernie A.

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Hey Ernie, Crackerjazz will correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like and I believe I've read that he uses the same program I use called Solidworks. In my opinion one of the more intuitive 3D programs to use since it deals in solid forms more so than wireframe type construction. It's a bit pricey (I believe around 12 grand a seat?) but as 3d programs go, that's not super expensive actually. I'm sure when he comes around Crackerjazz will have some good insight into it as well.

Bill

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Hi Ernie, I'm using Solidworks. It's a bit pricey but really worth it if you have that stick-to-itiveness it requires. It comes in Standard, Professional and Premium versions depending on your needs, ranging from 4K-8K for single-user. You can purchase a license (it doesn't expire - if you don't mind sticking to the version you have) or you can also opt for a subscription which grants you updates. You might want to go for the student version for around 150, but it expires after a certain period. The learning curve is a bit steep, I find, compared to something like Rhino. After two years I still don't consider myself "comfortable" with Solidworks but I'm willing to keep going. Surfacing is one area I want to be really good at.

I'm really impressed by Rhino, too - it's way easier to combine parts and make curvy shapes/surfaces and a lot cheaper too at ~1K. Vincent Meens, after just a few months, is already turning out complex LM parts. It doesn't have a "Shell" command equivalent, something I find extremely useful to hollow out parts - or maybe it has - I haven't really explored the software that well. Rhino has a demo version you can download - good for 25 saves - give it a try! I find I get confused switching back and forth, though, so I opted to stick to Solidworks - and fry my brain.

Edited by crackerjazz
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Just to add, there is also a 3D program out there called Blender. It's actually a freeware open source program that is very powerful. BUT it has a real steep learning curve and it is mostly all hotkey operated. I found it not nearly as easy to just jump in and try to learn. I also found it hard to try to get precise dimension parts and seemed more suited for flowing natural shapes more than mechanical parts. But I have seen some guys do some incredibly detailed mechanics with it so I'm sure it just takes some learning. I just don't have time to play with it. But for the price of $0, hard to beat at least trying it.

Bill

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Just to add, there is also a 3D program out there called Blender. It's actually a freeware open source program that is very powerful. BUT it has a real steep learning curve and it is mostly all hotkey operated. I found it not nearly as easy to just jump in and try to learn. I also found it hard to try to get precise dimension parts and seemed more suited for flowing natural shapes more than mechanical parts. But I have seen some guys do some incredibly detailed mechanics with it so I'm sure it just takes some learning. I just don't have time to play with it. But for the price of $0, hard to beat at least trying it.

Bill

Thanks Bill.

About a decade ago, I got to learn and use solidworks and I remember that it was very intuitive... of course its been very long, but it sounds that they've kept it as user friendly as before.

Nevertheless, its good to know that there's other options now.

again thanks,

Ernie A.

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Hi Ernie, I'm using Solidworks. It's a bit pricey but really worth it if you have that stick-to-itiveness it requires. It comes in Standard, Professional and Premium versions depending on your needs, ranging from 4K-8K for single-user. You can purchase a license (it doesn't expire - if you don't mind sticking to the version you have) or you can also opt for a subscription which grants you updates. You might want to go for the student version for around 150, but it expires after a certain period. The learning curve is a bit steep, I find, compared to something like Rhino. After two years I still don't consider myself "comfortable" with Solidworks but I'm willing to keep going. Surfacing is one area I want to be really good at.

I'm really impressed by Rhino, too - it's way easier to combine parts and make curvy shapes/surfaces and a lot cheaper too at ~1K. Vincent Meens, after just a few months, is already turning out complex LM parts. It doesn't have a "Shell" command equivalent, something I find extremely useful to hollow out parts - or maybe it has - I haven't really explored the software that well. Rhino has a demo version you can download - good for 25 saves - give it a try! I find I get confused switching back and forth, though, so I opted to stick to Solidworks - and fry my brain.

Hi,

Well it's good news that its solidworks!

I was somewhat familiar with it a decade ago, and I've been actually looking into acquiring it again.

From your pictures, I'm particularly interested in how you somehow imported the different plan views (or layers) onto solidworks respective planes, and used those views to develop the 3d cad drawing... again its all speculation on my behalf.

How did you work out the original plan's scaling? ...is this something you can do in solidworks itself? or do you use other software to scale the reference plans? ... long time ago I used corel draw to reproduce plans in whatever scale I needed.

And I'm even more intrigued on how you actually built the turbine with all those complex rings and shapes... styrene? 3d print?

Hope you can give me some insight.

thanks,

Ernie A.

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Hi Ernie, the 3-view photos can be posted onto the Top, Front and Left planes. In Solidworks it's done using Tools -> Sketch Tools -> Sketch picture. I then overlay the reference photos, resized to the 3-views, and use those as a guide to model the parts. The original ship dimensions (from the 3-views) I just divided by 18 to scale the model). There is a Scale command in Solidworks as well, if you want to modify sizes later on. For the parts I tried to stay away from 3D-printing but just used regular styrene as I wanted them to be really smooth, even when viewed up close. Those cylinders, cones and rings on the plastic model I added them one piece at a time. Some rings are a bit wonky in places - I guess that's the tradeoff.

There is a Solidworks function to "flatten" cones using the Sheet Metal tools. I print those out on paper, stick them onto styrene sheet using temporary spray adhesive, cut out the shape and peel off the paper pattern. There's always that moment where your heart anxiously goes pitter-patter while you shape it into a cone, thinking it will end up wrong - but it has always worked so far, luckily - it always ends with a sigh of relief. You just have to be very careful in getting the dimensions right while you're drawing the 3D model. It certainly would have been more difficult to make the patterns using pencil and paper - for me at least.

Edit: That pointed cone at the bottom - that was done using styrene ribs, covered in 2-part putty and sanded with an electric file. Someday, though, I'd like to own one of those lathe machines for axially-symmetric parts like these.

RfOCuve.jpg

HPPoV2f.jpg

Edited by crackerjazz
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Hi Ernie, the 3-view photos can be posted onto the Top, Front and Left planes. In Solidworks it's done using Tools -> Sketch Tools -> Sketch picture. I then overlay the reference photos, resized to the 3-views, and use those as a guide to model the parts. The original ship dimensions (from the 3-views) I just divided by 18 to scale the model). There is a Scale command in Solidworks as well, if you want to modify sizes later on. For the parts I tried to stay away from 3D-printing but just used regular styrene as I wanted them to be really smooth, even when viewed up close. Those cylinders, cones and rings on the plastic model I added them one piece at a time. Some rings are a bit wonky in places - I guess that's the tradeoff.

There is a Solidworks function to "flatten" cones using the Sheet Metal tools. I print those out on paper, stick them onto styrene sheet using temporary spray adhesive, cut out the shape and peel off the paper pattern. There's always that moment where your heart anxiously goes pitter-patter while you shape it into a cone, thinking it will end up wrong - but it has always worked so far, luckily - it always ends with a sigh of relief. You just have to be very careful in getting the dimensions right while you're drawing the 3D model. It certainly would have been more difficult to make the patterns using pencil and paper - for me at least.

Edit: That pointed cone at the bottom - that was done using styrene ribs, covered in 2-part putty and sanded with an electric file. Someday, though, I'd like to own one of those lathe machines for axially-symmetric parts like these.

RfOCuve.jpg

HPPoV2f.jpg

Thanks so much for the explanation.

I'll be sure to try this once I've re-acquainted myself enough with the software... on something very simple of course!

I saw your build article in the space forum, and I'm just as impressed with your techniques and with your cad work.

I'll continue to monitor this build with interest!

Thnks.

Ernie A.

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