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crackerjazz

1/18 LLRV - WIP

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Posted (edited)

Hi, Pete, it looks like it shouldn't take me 10 years to build it now.  I could probably finish it in 9 years and 11 months, heheh.    I decided not to build the styrene version for now but keep plugging away until I finish the 3D model.  That way, someday when printing technology is ripe enough to allow printing in hyper detail then we can all print this thing -- maybe even in a nice 1/32 scale  : )    

Edited by crackerjazz

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Posted (edited)

Hi Manfred, it's starting to look a lot less like a grasshopper now : )    I knew that adding that top square bar and that major strut that connects to the legs should make it start looking more like the LLRV : )    I'm getting more familiar with the Solidworks tools as well, so I should be able to provide updates more frequently.    My only problem now is that it parses oh so slowly with every additional part, what with the history tree getting longer and longer.  Other people would probably model this as an assembly instead of as a single part, but with extrusion not being an available feature in assembly mode, I found this the easier route to take.

 

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Edited by crackerjazz

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Posted (edited)

Sorry Joe, but it was only a joke. 00000016.gif

 

I can only take off my hat as always! hi.gif

 

Edited by spaceman

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Oh --- no apology needed, Manfred.  No offense at all taken.   I was wondering myself when it will start looking less like a grasshopper  : )     It really is an ugly vehicle, anyway.  And once I get to the box cockpit it'll be even uglier : )   Even  NASA used the word itself for the title of their own monograph.  

 

If it were only easy to build a scale model of one, I would have chosen the late version with the Bell helicopter cockpit which is the more graceful-looking of the lot.   Interestingly, that version had to dangle from a crane and didn't fly on its own, but at least it couldn't crash.  

 

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Hi John, Aussie-Pete,  I've taken a renewed interest in getting my own 3D printer after seeing those pics you posted.   You guys are giving us great motivation.  I'm just really curious to see what issues I'd be facing to have a go at printing this thing.   I know I'll have to chop it up into smaller subassemblies.   And I'm quite sure I'll have to thicken a lot of parts to get them print-ready.      

 

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Have to thank Tony again for those invaluable, detailed photos he sent me a long time back.  It's getting more complicated now and the connectors are getting harder to model, but I'm determined more than ever to soldier on. And I used to just see a jumbled mess of aluminum pipes but everything's starting to make sense, somehow.  

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I'm glad you're gonna focus on the 3D version CJ ... I often wondered why you built it all from scratch when you had all the 3D info at your fingertips ... 

 

With your trademark attention to the smallest detail this is gonna be soo-perb!  :thumbsup:

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On 5/22/2020 at 9:33 PM, crackerjazz said:

Hi John, Aussie-Pete,  I've taken a renewed interest in getting my own 3D printer after seeing those pics you posted.   You guys are giving us great motivation.  I'm just really curious to see what issues I'd be facing to have a go at printing this thing.   I know I'll have to chop it up into smaller subassemblies.   And I'm quite sure I'll have to thicken a lot of parts to get them print-ready.      

 

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Have to thank Tony again for those invaluable, detailed photos he sent me a long time back.  It's getting more complicated now and the connectors are getting harder to model, but I'm determined more than ever to soldier on. And I used to just see a jumbled mess of aluminum pipes but everything's starting to make sense, somehow.  


I've been in awe of your modeling skills since I been lurking around here. Glad I have influenced you some 🙂
With 3D printing scale is king. the bigger the scale the easier to print. Having said that the details that can be printed still blows my mind.


This model will throw up a few challenges but I think will turn out great. Resin when cured is pretty rigid. 
I look forward to seeing this printed.

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Posted (edited)

Dude, this is looking so good! I think a lot of this parts are perfect for 3D printing, Can't wait to see how they come out! Your attention to details is awesome and 3d modeling skills are coming along great. 

 

I would offer one suggestion as far as Solidworks. You'd mentioned that you're not doing this as an assembly but rather a single part and that's slowing down your process times. I assume you're doing this because you want to model each part accurately in relation to its surrounding mating parts, which in this case is totally the way to go. BUT you can actually accomplish this in an assembly as well, and it's not too late in the game to continue forward as an assembly. I think you'd benefit from "in-context" assembly modeling. There are many ways to do this and with a little searching you can find what works best for you, but basically you have your top level assembly and insert the next part with no modeled geometry. if you just enter via the "check" when you insert it, it's origin with be in the same location as the assembly's origin. Then you go to the newly inserted part in the parts tree, right click and pick "edit part". Once you're in the part editor in context of an assembly you can model as you have been doing using faces etc… of existing parts for reference. The good thing is you can just model the more simple aspects of the part (or even simple reference points or planes or whatever,) while in the assembly and then to add all the details you just open the part by itself and add the things that are bogging down your main assembly. (You can even do sub-assemblies or subassemblies with sub-assemblies so you can edit areas in-context without having the full model loaded) Doing assemblies in context CAN get a little jingy if you have to move parts and they are related to sketches in other parts, but with a little care and thought it really isn't too hard to do. This also allows you to "save-as copy" some parts in case you want to make different versions, which might come in handy for different scaled prints or approaches to a part. Our company started out doing our large assemblies this way for a while but in our case we needed to copy entire assemblies and change out or modify a lot of the parts, and that's when in-context modeling becomes pretty hard to maintain. We still do some things in context but generally we break any sketch relations to and other parts. 

 

Sorry, long winded thought, just figured it might be something to consider as you start getting more and more parts added and it starts becoming Impossibly slow. It's also a really good process to learn for many other projects.

 

Bill

Edited by niart17

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Wow, thanks, @niart17, that might just be the ticket!   Yes, that was my problem exactly -- how to model parts in between surrounding parts.    Also I normally trace over inserted pictures -- either blueprints or photos and I didn't think this can be done in assembly mode.   Will read up on In-context assembly -- sounds exciting : )

 

Thanks @K2Pete.   I hope I can do her justice.  This was supposed to be a quick build with rods and scrap styrene that soon turned into a quest for more and more detail.  I didn't originally plan to print a 3D model but just use it as a template for the scratchbuild since surface finishes were terrible back then.  And I was a noob at 3D when I started it and wasn't sure I could model the entire thing  (6 years into it, though, I still feel like a noob    :gr_eek2: )  And  it was representative of the real aircraft, with thin aluminum rods and sheets but now I realize that scaling it down the thin walls are unprintable.   it's difficult to modify them now but the parts I'm adding hopefully will be 3D-printable and I can re-work the earlier parts one at a time.  This might even turn up to be a hybrid of styrene struts and printed end-connectors.  The next time I model something I'll always keep wall thicknesses in mind to make sure it's printable in smaller scales -- otherwise it's not worth anything much for us modelers but just something fancy to look at on the computer screen.   

 

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@Aussie-Pete thanks!  Yes you certainly influenced us with your beautiful prints : )    I searched through the local ads and found an Elegoo Mars, read up on it, spent the entire night in bed staring at the ceiling, went for it the next day,  took her home with me, and have now ordered some resin.   Can't wait to see what issues you 3D-printing nuts normally face at home.  My first one was being questioned by the treasury department for the purchase.    : )    

 

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Congrats on the Elegoo.   I had the very same issue with the Treasury when I brought mine home too.  Funny how universal that seems to be.

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Posted (edited)

So you guys actually got questioned by the authorities about the nature of your purchase for a 3D printer? Wow, that's crazy.  (or am I missing a joke about the treasury dept. AKA SWMBO?) 

I would have told them that you wanted to 3D print a miniature version of the moon that you could put into low low earth orbit so when you stole the real moon nobody would notice. That might get a couple of reactions....they'd leave either you alone shaking their head at the humor OR you'd get a visit from some people with straight jackets. 😀

Edited by niart17

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4 hours ago, crackerjazz said:

Wow, thanks, @niart17, that might just be the ticket!   Yes, that was my problem exactly -- how to model parts in between surrounding parts.    Also I normally trace over inserted pictures -- either blueprints or photos and I didn't think this can be done in assembly mode.   Will read up on In-context assembly -- sounds exciting : )

 

Thanks @K2Pete.   I hope I can do her justice.  This was supposed to be a quick build with rods and scrap styrene that soon turned into a quest for more and more detail.  I didn't originally plan to print a 3D model but just use it as a template for the scratchbuild since surface finishes were terrible back then.  And I was a noob at 3D when I started it and wasn't sure I could model the entire thing  (6 years into it, though, I still feel like a noob    :gr_eek2: )  And  it was representative of the real aircraft, with thin aluminum rods and sheets but now I realize that scaling it down the thin walls are unprintable.   it's difficult to modify them now but the parts I'm adding hopefully will be 3D-printable and I can re-work the earlier parts one at a time.  This might even turn up to be a hybrid of styrene struts and printed end-connectors.  The next time I model something I'll always keep wall thicknesses in mind to make sure it's printable in smaller scales -- otherwise it's not worth anything much for us modelers but just something fancy to look at on the computer screen.   

 

49938814087_150ee5a329_h.jpg

 

49938510811_f77b85c322_h.jpg

 

49938813957_25218ca36a_h.jpg

 

@Aussie-Pete thanks!  Yes you certainly influenced us with your beautiful prints : )    I searched through the local ads and found an Elegoo Mars, read up on it, spent the entire night in bed staring at the ceiling, went for it the next day,  took her home with me, and have now ordered some resin.   Can't wait to see what issues you 3D-printing nuts normally face at home.  My first one was being questioned by the treasury department for the purchase.    : )    

 

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Congrats on the purchase. now the fun begins.
What thickness walls are you worried about?
You can print thin unsupported to about .5 mm. (sorry metric here)
You will be shocked at the detail you can achieve. 
Getting your setting right makes all the difference.

Expect failures, expect to replace parts. LCD screens and the glass are considered consumables.

I believe this has a slightly larger print area than my photon.


You don't have to clean the vat after every print either. Really only if you have failed prints stuck on the FEP.
You can leave resin in the vat as long as it's not exposed to UV light.
It stinks. You might find you need to move it to the garage.

Have fun

 

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4 hours ago, Aussie-Pete said:

 (sorry metric here)


If we’d been meant to use the metric system we would have been given ten fingers. 
 

oh wait.....  

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1 hour ago, habu2 said:


If we’d been meant to use the metric system we would have been given ten fingers. 
 

oh wait.....  

But we have 10 toes too 😮

No we don't have Royal with cheese in Australia. 
We have the good old qtr pounder

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Posted (edited)

Lol.  Hey, John, yes I think it's universal -- I think that includes the way we slowly turn the key and haul the box through the door as quietly as possible and the way they're already there waiting with arms crossed and foot a-tapping.    But instead of saying "Hi honey...It's...it's..a  pup....puppy,"  we should say it with conviction --- "It's a puppy!  A puppy named Elegoo."

 

 

Edited by crackerjazz

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I once brought home a 1971 Pontiac without permission from the Treasury. I thought I had made a good deal at only $400.  Turned out to be the most expensive car I ever bought....

 :wmsmiley-poop-hits-the-fan:

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2 hours ago, habu2 said:

I once brought home a 1971 Pontiac without permission from the Treasury. I thought I had made a good deal at only $400.  Turned out to be the most expensive car I ever bought....

 :wmsmiley-poop-hits-the-fan:

Yeah, pretty hard to sneak that box in without being seen. 😀

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Posted (edited)

Plugging away on the flying scaffolding : )

 

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Lots more to go as far as trusswork.     There's also more detailing to do on the engine and flight computer.  But I'd be happy to have something as bare as this sitting on my desk if I could pull it off, as it looks complex enough and would make for a nice enough display.  Almost forgot...have to start working on the box cockpit -- the key to making it look ungainly.

Edited by crackerjazz

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Posted (edited)

Thanks, John!  Can't wait for the resin to arrive so I can do a test print.   @Aussie-Pete some of the walls are 0.13mm and .025mm like the engine intake and shroud as well as stringers and boxes in the back.  Those probably won't print, would they? I never planned to print all the parts in the beginning and so I never considered thicknesses.  And now I'm even thinking of printing in 1/32 which is way smaller.  I think detail sizes and heights need to be exaggerated.   Rivets, for example, should be enlarged for them to show up nicely when printed.  They will look toyish on-screen but should look just right when 3d-printed -- is this  assumption correct?  Do you guys consider this at all when 3d-modelling?

Edited by crackerjazz

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Brilliant work, Joe! smiley250.gif

 

Can't wait to see your first test prints. Shapeways can dress warmly! up040577.gif 

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7 hours ago, crackerjazz said:

Thanks, John!  Can't wait for the resin to arrive so I can do a test print.   @Aussie-Pete some of the walls are 0.13mm and .025mm like the engine intake and shroud as well as stringers and boxes in the back.  Those probably won't print, would they? I never planned to print all the parts in the beginning and so I never considered thicknesses.  And now I'm even thinking of printing in 1/32 which is way smaller.  I think detail sizes and heights need to be exaggerated.   Rivets, for example, should be enlarged for them to show up nicely when printed.  They will look toyish on-screen but should look just right when 3d-printed -- is this  assumption correct?  Do you guys consider this at all when 3d-modelling?

This model is awesome. But with those dimensions you will need to thicken things up to print. .13/.025 might print but will be very weak. 
When I model I do so for the smallest scale and create wall thickness accordingly. Some parts can be created as solid in 3D then hollowed when printing via slicing software. You pick how thick you want walls. Does your software have the ability to add thickness?


The rivets are just large enough to print which takes into consideration the resolution limits of my printer.  Y axis = 0.00125mm , Z axis = 0.025mm to .1mm
You chose the resolution for layer thickness. 


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Thanks, Manfred : )    Hey, that print is incredible, Pete.   Yeah, there's no way to thicken the walls now except go through each of the parts one by one, unfortunately. 

 

I've started saving the parts individually so I could work on them separately and create further parts within the assembly.

 

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The engine swings on 2 axes. 

 

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 It's just like a universal joint, isn't it?   In flight the gyroscopes normally keep the engine vertical to the ground and it's the skeleton frame that spins around it using thrusters.  I'm not sure if lateral movement is provided by the thrusters entirely, though.

 

I may have to break down the engine further into several parts before printing.     And I may have to cut the frame into 4 parts like a pizza.  I'm really tempted to start printing just to see how it turns out but I don't want to waste any resin, knowing the thin walls wouldn't print right.     

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Sometimes things need to be done more than once.
Unfortunately this might be one of those cases.

You've done all the hard work of figuring out angles and such. Now just redo with .05-1mm thickness.
The legs could be printed in one piece
Gimbals as solids
The engine will need redrawing for printing. But it might print on shapeways since they use a different method to print?
YOu could create an account on shapeways and upload. They test the component when uploaded and tell you if it will print. Worth a go.

If the frame is the same x 4 then you only need one and print 4 x

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Awesome! Now we're talking. Now that you've figured how to break up parts and work in assemblies, your time is going to really open up. Keep up the great work!

 

Bill

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