NECSAC Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I friends I’m starting an Academy F-4 B from the VF-102 squadron but I got some question about some antennas on the tail and the nose. In the profile shown, the version I like to do (Phantom cruise 1962) with a bulb antenna in the front of the tail fin and AN/ALQ-51/100 Fwd Receive Antenna in the nose. Is that correct? I cannot find any pictures in the web of this F-4 with these antennas, only some decals profiles and a model in the IPMS USA gallery. Any help would be appreciate NECSAC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andre Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) 1962? No. Those antennae (AN/ALQ-51 /-51A /-100) were progressively added to Fleet Phantoms from 1965 on during Project Shoehorn, a early Vietnam-era program to enhance the ECM capabilities of the baseline F-4B. For a 1962 bird, she should have a smooth fin cap and a smooth undernose radome fairing. EDIT: the antennae under the intakes (and, presumably, wing) in the decal profile should be omitted as well. HTH, Andre (back after a long absence...) Edited April 21, 2014 by Andre Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NECSAC Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 Thanks Andre! For a 1962 F-4 B the answer is no. But, this configuration of antennas is ok for another period? since when? from 1965? Thanks again NECSAC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 The rear tail tip antenna should be omitted also, I think Andre is saying that but it could be missed. There is the beginning of an explanation of the "lumps and bumps" here http://phantomphacts.blogspot.com/ it is a work in progress, but, Kim has already gone a long ways towards explaining it He is doing a much better job of it than my previous attempt, so, I recommend using his site as he updates it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) Does this help? Ca. 1962. 8404 is in the foreground: The chin fairing in the profile drawing looks more like an F-4D fairing. Ben Edited April 21, 2014 by Ben Brown Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 The rear tail tip antenna should be omitted also, I think Andre is saying that but it could be missed. There is the beginning of an explanation of the "lumps and bumps" here http://phantomphacts.blogspot.com/ it is a work in progress, but, Kim has already gone a long ways towards explaining it He is doing a much better job of it than my previous attempt, so, I recommend using his site as he updates it Rex, Thanks for the link to that blog. Awesome reference on the F-4's EW systems (and lots of other good stuff). Added to my bookmarks. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andre Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Thanks Andre! For a 1962 F-4 B the answer is no. But, this configuration of antennas is ok for another period? since when? from 1965? Thanks again NECSAC The modes began to appear in Fleet service around 1967 or so, but it's best to have photographic evicence of the specific aircraft you're building, since different configurations were seen even in the same squadron. For instance, this VF-15 threesome shows two aircraft with the fin cap leading edge antenna and one without Some great Shoehorn info, including drawings, here. HTH, Andre Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andre Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 The rear tail tip antenna should be omitted also, I think Andre is saying that but it could be missed. Yeah, my "smooth fin cap" could have been clearer, in retrospect. Thanks! By the time I finshed my previous post, the link to the PhantomPhacts blog wasposted as well, I see... some great stuff there! Cheers, Andre Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 welcome back Andre so let me say "thanks for the link to those VF-15 Phantoms", lol Just teasing, I know you meant VF-51 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NECSAC Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 Thanks to all for the info! I think I will cut out the antennas and make the clean configuration. This is what I have till now: My F-4 B in progress Greetings NECSAC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Boyer Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Also note the size of the white diamond on the tail and the numbers in the photo in relation to what is in the drawing (and likely also the decal). The sheet you are using (an old CAM sheet?) was based on the very old Microscale sheet that had these items too large for the model. No easy fixes on them, though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Does this help? Ca. 1962. 8404 is in the foreground: The chin fairing in the profile drawing looks more like an F-4D fairing. Ben Great picture! I never realized they had the sidenumber on the starboard wing. Very interesting! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slartibartfast Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Notice that 109 does not have the wing number. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Notice that 109 does not have the wing number. It might be the lighting, but it also looks like the inside of the diamond on 109 is gray and not white, as well as the wingtip diamonds. Just goes to show that on any given day, you can't say "never" or "always". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrvark Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Fond memories of those early VF-102 markings. The first Phantoms I ever laid eyes on were a section of VF-102 jets at NAS Olatha, KS while on a Boy Scout field trip. We got to watch them taxi out and takeoff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marv Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Great picture! I never realized they had the sidenumber on the starboard wing. Very interesting! Also, notice no anti-skid walkways over the intakes and fuselage. Yes, very nice picture, indeed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 The walkways might still be there, they weren't always a different color than the aircraft, but, they could be the same color with a rougher texture. as for the wing top numbers, at least 5 variations existed during the time that those were used (only talking about the LGG era) numbers, no letters letters, no numbers blank two lines, one for letters and one for numbers letters and numbers on same line, with sizes of each varying Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Boyer Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 It might be the lighting, but it also looks like the inside of the diamond on 109 is gray and not white, as well as the wingtip diamonds. Just goes to show that on any given day, you can't say "never" or "always". I'm pretty sure they were gray on all of them and that the reflection of sunlight is making it appear lighter on some. I'm also pretty sure that the wing tip "reverse" diamonds were gray on the top, white on the bottom; basically the red on the background color. What I find interesting is that the column of little stars on the rudder is not set on a continuous line above and below the diamond. It seems to take a little jog. Arguably, VF-102 on Enterprise was the first Navy Phantom squadron to deploy; VF-74 on Forrestal set sail about the same time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 VF-74 in January for a full deployment, VF-102 in February on a shakedown Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slartibartfast Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 This thread is fodder for the Phantom Musings thread. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Fond memories of those early VF-102 markings. The first Phantoms I ever laid eyes on were a section of VF-102 jets at NAS Olatha, KS while on a Boy Scout field trip. We got to watch them taxi out and takeoff. Did I ever know that you frequented the Olathe area, or am I just getting old and forgot?!? I would have loved to see NAS Olathe in its glory days. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Here's a MUCH more accurate profile illustration than the first one you listed: http://www.wings-aviation.ch/21-USNavy/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4/VF-102-1963-A.png Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NECSAC Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 Dear friends, thanks a lot again. I appreciate the help given. I have the Monokio decal sheet and reviewing all the information, there are several details I must correct, mainly the size of some (not a easy task). Regards NECSAC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vfma115 Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Dear friends, thanks a lot again. I appreciate the help given. I have the Monokio decal sheet and reviewing all the information, there are several details I must correct, mainly the size of some (not a easy task). Regards NECSAC Hello, what about this one? http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10155842 The diamond for the tail has the right size and the "AG" is a separate decal. It's very easy to create an "AF" from the "AG". I've used that sheet for my VF-102 F-4B (together with the Monokio and the CAM sheet). Regards, Carsten Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NECSAC Posted April 25, 2014 Author Share Posted April 25, 2014 Hi Carsten Good idea, I have the Aeromaster decal sheet, so I think I'll do what you say. Greetings NECSAC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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