BGB Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Hello, Red 7? Cheers Boris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gregax Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Reading this I don't believe that any of you is actually going to build this kit. Of course, most of the "modellers" know everything about Spitfires, Mustangs and Gustavs. In my opinion, this kit is really good, regardless to any mistakes Eduard have made. Bottom line is: If you don't like it, don't buy it. Also, If the kit will be perfectly built, weathered, decaled etc, It will win gold in competitions. Few mm's up or down. And I am pretty sure it will look great in display case as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ch9862 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I wouldn't mind buying one as long as it doesn't build like their 190s. It goes together very well - at least so far (knock on wood). I closed the fuselage last night and had zero fit issues. Looking at how many inserts there are I expected some sanding and trimming but didn't have to do any - far cry form their 190s. The fuselage does look a bit off when placed next to Zvezda though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sharkmouth Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Reading this I don't believe that any of you is actually going to build this kit. Of course, most of the "modellers" know everything about Spitfires, Mustangs and Gustavs. In my opinion, this kit is really good, regardless to any mistakes Eduard have made. Bottom line is: If you don't like it, don't buy it. Also, If the kit will be perfectly built, weathered, decaled etc, It will win gold in competitions. Few mm's up or down. And I am pretty sure it will look great in display case as well. About the only thing I can agree with is what I italicized in your quote. Some people will build it as long as it isn't placed next to a properly scaled Bf 109G-6. Most modelers don't need to know everything about the kits they build, but it is obvious many want to from the amount of demand for reference material from properly written and researched books to websites offering up misinformation (but hey, it is free, right?). So indeed, I will vote with my wallet by not buying it. Even if perfectly finished, it will still be to a scale not matching the one stated on the box. While I will gladly accept issues I can overcome, I can not shrink a kit to the scale I want especially if it limits the amount of aftermarket I can use. In my case, decals for the Finnish shark mouth scheme will have national insignias which will appear under scale and who knows what issued I'll encounter adding the shark mouth. I am surprised that the cannon pods from their Brass-In set didn't let the kit designers know of the scale issue since they are a bit smaller (probably so modelers can adapt them to other kits?). Regards, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Just had a chance to read Brett's review. His first comment: Accurate fuselage and wing dimensions I have to admit that I am a bit confused. How hard is it to measure the fuselage and wingspan of the Eduard kit and then do a bit of math and compare the numbers to the measurements of the real thing? Unless there is some controversy over how wide / long an actual Bf-109G-6 is, this should be a pretty simple exercise. In my old age I've learned to always take zero credibility in anything Brett Green publishes. The guy is a shill (I have a better word) for the tamygawa folks and now Eduard! gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 I am surprised that the cannon pods from their Brass-In set didn't let the kit designers know of the scale issue since they are a bit smaller (probably so modelers can adapt them to other kits?). The question about the difference in plastic and resin gun pods is very interesting. When building the MiG-21 kit I had both the Brassin RS-2US missiles and the original plastic ones from the kit. It was purely by accident that I have placed them side by side and noticed and incredible lenght difference. It was only after this that the real RS-2US missile was measured and there was a big surprise. Neither the resin nor the plastic mmissile had correct dimensions. The resin was far smaller while the plastic one was way overscale. The real missile measurements were half way between them. There is something strange going on with the scale of things . . . Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlCZ Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 And i'am happy. New Mess from Eduard cost in overtrees 13USD/9.5Euro. Maybe have little flaws - but for this nice price ? Woo hoo ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sharkmouth Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) New Mess from Eduard cost in overtrees 13USD/9.5Euro. While I was happy at the price of the ordered "Overtrees," I am now wondering what to do with them since all the aftermarket I had planned to use (especially decals) may not fit! After all, the reason for me to buy the Overtrees was to avoid paying for decals and details I did not need since I have a good supply. Before anyone states the obvious, yes... I understand I would be shoe horning the resin sets designed for Hasegawa's and Tamiya's kits but I expected to trim or shim a little not a lot (3mm). Regards, Edited May 13, 2014 by sharkmouth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dragonlance Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 And i'am happy. New Mess from Eduard cost in overtrees 13USD/9.5Euro. Maybe have little flaws - but for this nice price ? Woo hoo ! Yep, ignorance is bliss. Enjoy. Vedran Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 While I was happy at the price of the ordered "Overtrees," I am now wondering what to do with them since all the aftermarket I had planned to use (especially decals) may not fit! If you are happy enough with the Eduard kit, flaws and all, I'm sure you won't mind aftermarket decals that are just a bit on the small side. After all, as others have noted - "it still looks like a Bf-109"! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dehowie Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 What about the height and length or the fuselage aft of the cockpit. It looks like a P-47 compared to the Hasegawa kit. What where they doing the last two years.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robertson Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) In my old age I've learned to always take zero credibility in anything Brett Green publishes. The guy is a shill (I have a better word) for the tamygawa folks and now Eduard! gary I'm afraid this is true. This was made clear to me in the 1/53 scale Tamiya Il-2 canopy issue, when I happened to get the kit before he did. Comparing to the previous (3% too large) Accurate Miniature canopy, the 11% too small Tamiya canopy looked quite absurd (% from the flying Il-2 at FHC), and yet Brett vowed to make a comparison right away... I kept wondering, how would he handle this thorny problem?: To be fair, he did mention in his text that there was a difference in canopy size, for which he then went on to speculate (wrongly and without any basis) that this could have been an issue of canopy variants, and that therefore both kits could be correct! This is how he ended up doing the comparison, secure I suppose in the notion that images spoke louder than words...: All this is still nothing however compared to the Eduard Me-109G-6, just like the Eduard Me-109E's canopy issues were very confined in comparison to this cataclysm. Think about it: I can't even think of Trumpeter doing anything that bad, outside of their 1/32 Hellcat being said to be similar to the 1/48th Hobby Boss Hellcat. The Trumpeter 1/24 Me-109G-6 is, in comparison, very reasonable... To equal this, you literally have to invoque the 1/48 Hobby Boss Hellcat, the one with a 1/32 cockpit and no wing machineguns, which is essentially in the league of 1950s Starfix hell, if not outright eggplane... Those who think this will have no financial consequences for Eduard are I think overestimating the number of grannies buying gifts for grandson. There's not enough grannies in the world to pull Eduard out of this one... Robertson Edited May 14, 2014 by Robertson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tbolt Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) I'm going to follow the discussion on this kit a bit longer, just to make sure everyone agrees on all these problems when they have a copy of the kit, but I suspect I will not be buying any. It's becoming easier to avoid inaccurate kits now I'm running out of room to store kits ;) But I'm sure my money will go to Eduard, just not to the 109 but the Spit Mk.XVI, Mk.VIII and Mk.V's! The funny thing is over on Hyperscale yesterday they started picking out errors in this picture, thinking it is the Eduard kit, when in fact it's the Hasegawa kit! Edited May 14, 2014 by Tbolt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BGB Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Hello Tbolt, And thanks for the Laughter!! Cheers Boris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
auhlik Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 The question about the difference in plastic and resin gun pods is very interesting. When building the MiG-21 kit I had both the Brassin RS-2US missiles and the original plastic ones from the kit. It was purely by accident that I have placed them side by side and noticed and incredible lenght difference. It was only after this that the real RS-2US missile was measured and there was a big surprise. Neither the resin nor the plastic mmissile had correct dimensions. The resin was far smaller while the plastic one was way overscale. The real missile measurements were half way between them. There is something strange going on with the scale of things . . . Best regards Gabor I think the reason is very simple. The gun pods and rockets vere done originaly in 1/32 scale for Revell G-6. They probably just sceled those down to 1/48. But the plastic pods are done for this bigger Gustaf which is in 1/46 scale- so they are different ... Souns logic ? ;) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I think the reason is very simple. The gun pods and rockets vere done originaly in 1/32 scale for Revell G-6. They probably just sceled those down to 1/48. But the plastic pods are done for this bigger Gustaf which is in 1/46 scale- so they are different ... Souns logic ? ;)/> I dont think it is an explanation for the problem. So is this model making about producing "something because we think there is a need for it" without respect for the scale or is it about making scale replicas of a given subject. I have no idea about the G6 gun pod, but for the RS-2US missile it is fairly simple to go out and make a true measurement of it and then devide it by 48, by 72 or by 32 to get the dimensions of the scale replica. It is a very simple maths from the first or second class in the primary school! There is something very wrong here! Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlCZ Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 When i look on finished kit - i seen a nice state of art kit of Bf 109G-6. And this is for me most important. Zvezda "Fridrich" isn't too nice as Eduard Gustav and Hawa & Fujimi & are twenty years old kit. It is my opinion - i have here all for nice kit (drilled guns & air intakes, rivets...). But i'm a weekend builder and new mess in over trees or later in weekend edition is for me a best choice between 1/72 AZ model family and 1/32 Revell kit. In small scale i probably can't paint a complicated german camo with many dots etc... and 1/32 is too big for biggest collection and haven't underwing pods and WGr 21 :/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joscasle Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 mmm... ok whish is a better option (model kit) than this Eduard 1/48 BF-109G-6???? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 mmm... ok whish is a better option (model kit) than this Eduard 1/48 BF-109G-6???? For a casual modeler who is not worried about any level of accuracy (or scale), this kit will certainly look nice on a shelf. The Eduard kit is definitely something I would give to a junior modeler who just wants to build something cool looking. To anyone else, not so much. For those, the better option would be the Hase kit, with the Fujimi product in second place. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Zvezda "Fridrich" isn't too nice as Eduard Gustav Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I'm afraid this is true. This was made clear to me in the 1/53 scale Tamiya Il-2 canopy issue, when I happened to get the kit before he did. Comparing to the previous (3% too large) Accurate Miniature canopy, the 11% too small Tamiya canopy looked quite absurd (% from the flying Il-2 at FHC), and yet Brett vowed to make a comparison right away... I kept wondering, how would he handle this thorny problem?: To be fair, he did mention in his text that there was a difference in canopy size, for which he then went on to speculate (wrongly and without any basis) that this could have been an issue of canopy variants, and that therefore both kits could be correct! This is how he ended up doing the comparison, secure I suppose in the notion that images spoke louder than words...: All this is still nothing however compared to the Eduard Me-109G-6, just like the Eduard Me-109E's canopy issues were very confined in comparison to this cataclysm. Think about it: I can't even think of Trumpeter doing anything that bad, outside of their 1/32 Hellcat being said to be similar to the 1/48th Hobby Boss Hellcat. The Trumpeter 1/24 Me-109G-6 is, in comparison, very reasonable... To equal this, you literally have to invoque the 1/48 Hobby Boss Hellcat, the one with a 1/32 cockpit and no wing machineguns, which is essentially in the league of 1950s Starfix hell, if not outright eggplane... Those who think this will have no financial consequences for Eduard are I think overestimating the number of grannies buying gifts for grandson. There's not enough grannies in the world to pull Eduard out of this one... Robertson just a thought and an idea how to put all this to bed once and for all: * The Air force Museum is well known to have a nice BF109 G on the floor. Roughly two hours or less is a rather large co-ordinate measuring machine (Muncie Indiana) that is quite capable of arc second measurements. The width of the machine maybe an issue, but even then it's easy (the machine is roughly 50 feet long by 25 feet wide). People often rent time on it, and probably $20K or less you will come out with a complete set of deadly accurate blue prints to work off of. I've seen this machine in operation a couple times making measurements in the .000050" range. Believe me it would easily give you everything you want and then some with about three days work (three setups). These folks would be more than willing to do this work as it's cash in their pockets. gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scvrobeson Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 For a casual modeler who is not worried about any level of accuracy (or scale), this kit will certainly look nice on a shelf. The Eduard kit is definitely something I would give to a junior modeler who just wants to build something cool looking. To anyone else, not so much. For those, the better option would be the Hase kit, with the Fujimi product in second place. Can almost feel the condescension through the computer screen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Robertson Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Can almost feel the condescension through the computer screen. Yeah! That will bring more kids into this hobby... I don't remember when I was a kid anyone telling me not to buid those huge Monogram kits, and to go instead for something cheaper and shoddier... R. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Am I imagining it, or has not Zvezda said they are going to do the Gustav family as well? If they don't do it now that Eduard seems to have well and truly screwed the royal pooch they're crazy. I won't but an Eduard kit, but I'd surely buy several Zvezda Gs if they matched the F in quality. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Can almost feel the condescension through the computer screen. My bad - I'll acknowledge that it's the best 1/45 scale Gustav on the market. Now just go fix the other errors and be happy. Or don't and build it anyway and still be happy. As I mentioned multiple times, the only person you have to please in this hobby is yourself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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