madcop Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I suppose that Mr Sulc is going to put some order in his house. I wouldn't trust some people any more after such a failure. But we still don't know who is to blame for it. Research team- developper-engineering ? The boss himself ? The fact that the Brassin AM are not to the same scale as the model they are supposed to fit is not a good sign for the future. I am pretty convinced that the team that researched the Spitfire was not formed by "indoor" guys. I know he received help from people devoted to the subject ! Why he didn't do the same for the Bf 109G will remain a mistery for me... Mister "best kit for years to come "' over engineerd ego has just got a big blow ... but he will never admit it!. Looking at the Bf 109G I am pretty happy that he notified people ( live chat ) that he was not planning any Griffon Spitfire for the years to come ... If it were with the same Bf 109G team it's quite a relief for me ! Madcop. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I suppose that Mr Sulc is going to put some order in his house. I wouldn't trust some people any more after such a failure. But we still don't know who is to blame for it. Research team- developper-engineering ? The boss himself ? The fact that the Brassin AM are not to the same scale as the model they are supposed to fit is not a good sign for the future. I am pretty convinced that the team that researched the Spitfire was not formed by "indoor" guys. I know he received help from people devoted to the subject ! Why he didn't do the same for the Bf 109G will remain a mistery for me... Mister "best kit for years to come "' over engineerd ego has just got a big blow ... but he will never admit it!. Looking at the Bf 109G I am pretty happy that he notified people ( live chat ) that he was not planning any Griffon Spitfire for the years to come ... If it were with the same Bf 109G team it's quite a relief for me ! Madcop. myself, I simply grab every Fujimi 109 kit I run across, and as far as I'm concerned is the best BF109G kit out there till maybe Zvezda gets theirs out. Fujimi could take that old piece of plastic, and do a mild update to it with a new cockpit, and be good for another 20 years gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madcop Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 myself, I simply grab every Fujimi 109 kit I run across, and as far as I'm concerned is the best BF109G kit out there till maybe Zvezda gets theirs out. Fujimi could take that old piece of plastic, and do a mild update to it with a new cockpit, and be good for another 20 years gary Hi Gary I for sure you mean that the Eduard kit is " the nicest " BF109G kit out there till... " I agree with you , but surely not the "best" ! For the time being "Nicest and best" fits only the Spitfire Mk.IX As for Fujimi they could add a complete new nose section as well... ! You'd better wait for the Zvezda at 16-17 Euro. These people know their subjects ! Madcop ;) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gregax Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Well, Eduard did research for themselves (the boss and the employees) and with the help of some other guys. I know they went to: EADS in Manching, Germany – mainly to study the G-4 and G-10 versions Flugmuseum Aviaticum in Wiener Neustadt – to inspect the upcoming Bf 109G-6 version Canada Aviation And Space Museum in Ottawa – to research the F-4 version Air Museum Kbely, Prague, Czech - to inspect some details of Bf 109G/F And they took measurments, photos etc. in "situ" from the actuall AC. So I can't really imagine how they made such a mistakes. I'd buy Zvezda over Eduard anytime. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Or wait for Zvezda... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Am I imagining it, or has not Zvezda said they are going to do the Gustav family as well? Cant remember if they have commented on the extent of the Gustav family, but they have said G-2 is next. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Parabat Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Ahahahaha! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KOG7777 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Right now on Hyperscale there's an interesting discussion which seems, to me, to indicate that the Eduard kit isn't nearly as bad off as some hyperbolic claims have seemed to indicate. Certainly it may not be perfect (most of the models in my collection from various manufacturers surely aren't either) but neither does it seem to be the grossly oversized monster that it has been painted as. Opinions and standards will vary. As for myself I plan to get a 2nd copy soon. And I do intend to buy the Royal Class boxing and whatever later variants they do. See below: http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/message/1400297350/So%2C+about+this+oversize+Eduard++Bf+109... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fernando Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 (edited) Interested in see in details the nose and did not show it ... :deadhorse1:/> I love history. Do you know why? because discussions never ends, such as chicken-egg discussions lol.... http://www.personal.psu.edu/cmn5158/blogs/courtney_norjens_technical_writing/5737-Who-Came-First3.jpg Edited May 18, 2014 by Fernando Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hal Marshman Sr Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Over on Hyperscale, a fellow has taken a Hasegawa fuselage, and laid it inside the Eduard fuselage. .It fit totally inside the Eduard half, with space left over in some areas, plus the thickness of the Eduard plastic. I know the H'gawa kit has its faults, but I don't believe I've heard mention of actual size problems, and they've been pumping those babies out for at least 25 years. Hal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scvrobeson Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Over on Hyperscale, a fellow has taken a Hasegawa fuselage, and laid it inside the Eduard fuselage. .It fit totally inside the Eduard half, with space left over in some areas, plus the thickness of the Eduard plastic. I know the H'gawa kit has its faults, but I don't believe I've heard mention of actual size problems, and they've been pumping those babies out for at least 25 years. Hal Apparently the Hasegawa kit is actually a big short, and has some cross-sectional issues in the fuselage. Not enough to cause it to sit right inside the Eduard one, but still some issues. They have been making it for 25 years, but it sure seems like model builders have gotten much more critical of everything in the last ten or so. So maybe there are issues with the Hasegawa kit, and it gets glossed over because it's been the best choice for so long. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vince14 Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Apparently the Hasegawa kit is actually a big short, and has some cross-sectional issues in the fuselage. Not enough to cause it to sit right inside the Eduard one, but still some issues. They have been making it for 25 years, but it sure seems like model builders have gotten much more critical of everything in the last ten or so. So maybe there are issues with the Hasegawa kit, and it gets glossed over because it's been the best choice for so long. Vince Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ch9862 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Apparently the Hasegawa kit is actually a big short, and has some cross-sectional issues in the fuselage. Not enough to cause it to sit right inside the Eduard one, but still some issues. They have been making it for 25 years, but it sure seems like model builders have gotten much more critical of everything in the last ten or so. So maybe there are issues with the Hasegawa kit, and it gets glossed over because it's been the best choice for so long. I don't think Hasegawa got a free pass here, it was the best available F/G/K kit until Zvezda F arrived. Eduard positions themselves as catering to "advanced" modelers - no other mainstream manufacturer includes all that PE, resin, etc. They run a "countdown to release" campaign, teasing us with how nicely detailed the kit is going to be. And it is! But they can't get the dimensions right. WTF? Zvezda managed to get theirs spot on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scvrobeson Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Eduard positions themselves as catering to "advanced" modelers - no other mainstream manufacturer includes all that PE, resin, etc. They run a "countdown to release" campaign, teasing us with how nicely detailed the kit is going to be. And it is! But they can't get the dimensions right. WTF? Zvezda managed to get theirs spot on. Does that mean that part of the ire and frustration over the kit is that Eduard ran a long hype campaign leading up to it, but didn't deliver everything? So Eduard ran a political campaign with this kit, promising the world and screwing up when the time came to deliver. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Does that mean that part of the ire and frustration over the kit is that Eduard ran a long hype campaign leading up to it, but didn't deliver everything? So Eduard ran a political campaign with this kit, promising the world and screwing up when the time came to deliver. What made it worse was when they started slagging people that had pointed out legitimate issues with this model. Personally, I would have been much more inclined to give Eduard a break if they showed a bit of humility and admitted that just maybe there actually are some problems with their uber kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BGB Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Hello, Got mine Eduard Me109G-6 today and it is a fantastic model, the only thing to do is shorten the wings 2 mm in the outer part before mounting the wing tip the rest is perfectly ok. Cheers Boris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 I don't think Hasegawa got a free pass here, it was the best available F/G/K kit until Zvezda F arrived. Eduard positions themselves as catering to "advanced" modelers - no other mainstream manufacturer includes all that PE, resin, etc. They run a "countdown to release" campaign, teasing us with how nicely detailed the kit is going to be. And it is! But they can't get the dimensions right. WTF? Zvezda managed to get theirs spot on. I've made the comparisons between several Hasegawas, Academy's, Revell, Fujimis, Otaki, and both the F2 & F4 Zvezdas. Knowing that the Zvezda is the most accurate of the group, I find the Fujimi to be very close to it in shape and overall size. (keeping in mind that the actual nose shape on the "G" is slightly different depending on which "G"). When. gary Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 (edited) The bottom line here, regardless of your opinion of what the final product looks like, is that this kind of MAJOR error in the most elementary, basic sizes/proportions in this day and age is simply unforgivable. There is **no** reason for it to have happened. Zero. You have to be so focused on the minutiae of what you're doing that you forget to look at the big picture (can't see the forest for the trees mentality). In the days where a physical master was made by hand I *might* be able to give it more of a pass (but Revell seems to have done okay on their G-10 in 1978...), but with CAD technology there is absolutely NO excuse for it. And it's compounded in a BIG way by Eduard's hubris. Their stock has gone way, way, way down over this debacle in my book. Edited May 19, 2014 by Jennings Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BGB Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Hello, Jennings, you are speaking of the perfect world and I don't know where you have seen it, but this is a model and when did you see a perfect model of the Me 109 G-6? I know what you mean, in our age of super technology everything should be perfect but the bottom line is that it's not, that is utopia. What's wrong with the Eduard kit except the wings, shave off 2 mm and it looks OK , what bothers you, that the folks at Eduard are pompous asses and says that they will do the best Me109 ever they didn't? But they did a model that is miles avay from the old Hase and fujimi and that they refused to use experts from the outside.Who cares, the model is a huge step up from the other ones we have today in 1/48 and the old ones have their faults too. Cheers Boris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scvrobeson Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 What made it worse was when they started slagging people that had pointed out legitimate issues with this model. Personally, I would have been much more inclined to give Eduard a break if they showed a bit of humility and admitted that just maybe there actually are some problems with their uber kit. They did end up fixing some things on it based on customer feedback. They fixed the wheel well bulges and stuff around the nose. Seems like small stuff now, but they did put out some effort. But yeah, their attitude I'm sure put a bad taste in people's mouths over the whole thing. Then again, some people will always try and pull down manufacturers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Hello, Jennings, you are speaking of the perfect world and I don't know where you have seen it, but this is a model and when did you see a perfect model of the Me 109 G-6? I know what you mean, in our age of super technology everything should be perfect but the bottom line is that it's not, that is utopia. What's wrong with the Eduard kit except the wings, shave off 2 mm and it looks OK , what bothers you, that the folks at Eduard are pompous asses and says that they will do the best Me109 ever they didn't? But they did a model that is miles avay from the old Hase and fujimi and that they refused to use experts from the outside.Who cares, the model is a huge step up from the other ones we have today in 1/48 and the old ones have their faults too. Not remotely. That's not at *all* what I said. I said nothing about "perfect" or "perfection". I'm talking about the most basic, elemental aspects of a kit design. If you can't even get well known and well established dimensions right, you have no right to go on and on about how great you are. Aren't you glad surgeons don't get that kind of a pass on mediocrity? Aren't you glad I don't accept that kind of mediocrity when I put you under anesthesia for your surgery? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 But yeah, their attitude I'm sure put a bad taste in people's mouths over the whole thing. Then again, some people will always try and pull down manufacturers. Agreed but I think people like that are in the minority. I like Eduard, their MiG-21's (even with the infamous Bis nose issue) are some of the best 1/48th jets on the market. I just wish they would lose some of the attitude when it comes to criticism of their products. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 ^ ^ ^ ^ Yep. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scvrobeson Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Agreed but I think people like that are in the minority. I like Eduard, their MiG-21's (even with the infamous Bis nose issue) are some of the best 1/48th jets on the market. I just wish they would lose some of the attitude when it comes to criticism of their products. Their MiGs are beautiful. I've bought almost all of the Eduard kits, so I will probably get their Me-109 as soon as they start going on sale. But you're right that their attitude causes some issues. I used to think it was a translation issue, but it keeps happening. But at least they have a degree of transparency you don't see with most other manufacturers. So there are plusses and minuses on both sides. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ch9862 Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 I've made the comparisons between several Hasegawas, Academy's, Revell, Fujimis, Otaki, and both the F2 & F4 Zvezdas. Knowing that the Zvezda is the most accurate of the group, I find the Fujimi to be very close to it in shape and overall size. (keeping in mind that the actual nose shape on the "G" is slightly different depending on which "G"). When. gary We must have different sensibilities - the nose kills it for me. Hopefully Zvezda will settle it for us at some point :). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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