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Model Master Metalizer Lacquer - any tips?


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Hi guys, a visiting friend has just bought me six jars of MM metalizer lacquer as a present (in return for free board and beers!) I have never used them before so know nothing about them, but as they seem to be a range of shades I can see that they would be great for engine exhausts, and areas like the rear of F-4's.

The shades he bought me are

Magnesium 'buffing' metalizer

Steel 'non-buffing' metalizer

Aluminium 'non-buffing' metalizer

Burnt Iron 'buffing' metalizer

Stainless Steel 'buffing' metalizer

Titanium 'buffing' metalizer

So as I normally use enamels, the first question is can I use these over enamels (and if I ever use them acrylics)?

As for buffing them, is this essential? What is gained by doing this?

Are they affected by masking, ie will they peel away with masking tape?

Can you apply decals on them?

Do you recommend a primer? I believe that for Alclad gloss black is one of the recommendations, is that pertinent with this product?

What thinners do I use? I have Tamiya lacquer thinners, will that do?

They look really runny, so my suspicion is that they are used directly from the jar, correct?

Can one be sprayed over another without affecting the previously sprayed layer?

Any other notable characteristics or tips I should be aware of?

As you can see my ignorance with this stuff knows no end, so rather than ruin a model and waste the products trying it I though you gents would almost certainly be able to guide me

Cheers

Edited by lesthegringo
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All these are meant to be airbrushed straight from the bottle. In my experience, spraying them can be quite challenging, since they seem to clog up my airbrush nozzle quite quickly.

Non-buffing metalizers are... well... non-buffable. You just spray and leave it. It should have quite a nice matt metallic finish. MM Non-Buffing Metalizer Gun Metal is fantastic for jet exhausts.

Buffing metalizers can be applied in a couple of ways (that I know of):

1) spraying through airbrush - you'll need to buff with cotton rag (or cotton bud) after it's dry/cure. Why buffing? Because it actually leaves powdery finish, and it doesn't really look... "metallic" if not buffed. Although... this means you might be able to reproduce "carbon fibre"-like finish (haven't tried this myself, to be honest).

2) dry brushing - As I recall, the bottle may state that it should not be applied by brush. But, in practice, the easiest way to apply this paint to achieve a fantastic, glossy, metallic finish is by dry-brushing technique. Have a look at this: http://www.essmc.org.au/natural_metal_finish.html.

BTW, FYI, Gunze Mr Metal Color is identical to MM Buffing Metalizers. Therefore, they can be intermixed, and the same technique can be applied to both.

It's not really advisable to apply either paint types over acrylics. Although, I have actually sprayed both types over Tamiya/Gunze acrylics, with no issues - just make sure the underlying acrylic is fully cured. Dry brushing technique SHOULD NOT be used over acrylics though, because that'll destroy the underlying acrylics for sure.

EDIT: BTW, if I recall your previous posts, you live in Melbourne right? If so, Hearns Hobbies near Flinders Street Station should stock these paints, if you want to restock, or ask more detailed questions. Admittedly, I've only used a couple bottles of these: 1x Gun Metal Non-Buffing type, and 1x Aluminum Buffing one.

Hope this helps...

Edited by Mike C
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Yessir, Mike C gave you a really good post to check out for applying MM metalizer. I'm gonna give you another avenue to get to the same, exact post. Go to Zone Five Modeling Forum. You may have to register, but it's very easy to register, it's a great modeling sight, and it's free! Either way, scroll down to, and click onto "The Toolbox." You will be on page one, and that's right where you need to be. Scroll down and click onto "Bare metal with a brush," by Jens H. Brandal. Back to MM metalizer. I don't use MM metalizer to paint NMF on a whole model, because the finish is too delicate. I use Alclad for big jobs. I used MM metalizer for small/tiny jobs, applied with a brush, until now. After reading this post, things have changed a bit. I was very leery until I tried his method. I am now past the "Test Stage," and have already done a set of exhausts for a 1/48 scale F-14. This method requires that you use BUFFING metalizers. I haven't tested fate and tried the non-buffing stuff. But, 4 of your 6 jars are buffing metalizers, so you're all set for this method. I have airbrushed both buffing and non-buffing, and both spray well. But, as I said earlier, since MM metalizer is so delicate, I don't do whole models with it. Almost all of your questions are touched upon or answered in Jens' article. Good Luck!!!

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Karl,

That's one super looking NMF, and you hand painted it with Model Master non puffing Metalizers. I've hand painted very small parts with them and it worked, but never had any luck trying to hand paint with Alcad 11's with or without primer.

Joel

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I have both Mr. Metal Color and Metalizers and they are different. Mr. Metal Color is thicker, can be brushed on, and needs to be thinned for airbrushing. Mr. Color Super Metallic I've heard is similar to Alclad and Metalizers.

Hmmm... Then there's probably something wrong with your Mr Metal Color. Maybe old stock? I've been using Mr Metal Color for a few years, and never come across one that requires thinning. Or perhaps you're thinking of the metallic paint from Mr Color rather than Mr Metal Color? Both came from Gunze, and both are lacquer based, but they're different (supposedly - haven't used Mr Color myself).

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Hmmm... Then there's probably something wrong with your Mr Metal Color. Maybe old stock? I've been using Mr Metal Color for a few years, and never come across one that requires thinning. Or perhaps you're thinking of the metallic paint from Mr Color rather than Mr Metal Color? Both came from Gunze, and both are lacquer based, but they're different (supposedly - haven't used Mr Color myself).

It's definitely Mr. Metal Color and not old stock. I have several of the shades along with Mr. Color paint.

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but never had any luck trying to hand paint with Alcad 11's with or without primer.

That's because Alclad II is not designed to be hand brushed. Alclad II is designed to be airbrushed straight out of the bottle only. Ever tried to read the label on the Alclad bottle?

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That's because Alclad II is not designed to be hand brushed. Alclad II is designed to be airbrushed straight out of the bottle only. Ever tried to read the label on the Alclad bottle?

Nor are the MM Metalizers...dude, read the responses in context.

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That's because Alclad II is not designed to be hand brushed. Alclad II is designed to be airbrushed straight out of the bottle only. Ever tried to read the label on the Alclad bottle?

Richard,

Yes I have. And like Shaka Hi said, Model Master Metalizers are for airbrush only. I've had good results hand brushing with them, so I thought that I could do the same with Alcad 11's. I merely posted that just isn't the case. Your rather rude and crude reply really wasn't necessary.

Joel

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I airbrush with MM Metalizers all the time. The trick to them is keeping the paint moving in the paint cup. I also use an eye dropper when I get a clog to put down inside of the cup to force the paint particles back up into the paint. Everything else stated above is accurate. You can actually buff the non buff Metalizers too if you want a shiny surface with the different colors offered in the non buff colors. If they are sprayed on smoothly, I use an old shirt I don't care about anymore as a buffing cloth. Works like a champ every time. Here are some answers for you to look at.

1 Yes

2 Yes and No it depends on the finish you are looking for with that particular color.

3 If sprayed correctly No

4 Yes

5 If you want. Krylon Black Lacquer is better and way cheaper and can be decanted and used in your airbrush.

6 Any Lacquer thinner will work as long as it is not the strongest stuff on the planet. I use Klean-Strip bought from Walmart Without one problem yet.

7 Yes

8 Yes if sprayed correctly

One more thing I forgot to mention. I have the Paasche Talon airbrush that comes with 3 different size needles and tips. I use the middle one for my metalizers because it limits the amount of clogs. If you have something similar with different size needles and tips experiment and see which one sprays best for you.

9 Dry brushing yields excellent results as stated before. I dry brush with it all the time. It really brings out details on Ejection Seats.

Edited by Devilleader501
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I use a Paasche H gun and also have the 3 sizes of tip/cone/Needle. For Alcads I use the #1 setup which is the smallest of the 3. For acrylics and enamel paints, I use the #3 setup. I do find that I periodically have to wipe the tip of the cone with a Qtip soaked with Lacquer thinner if I put down the gun for a few min.

Joel

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I've decanted paint just twice. I start off with a clean 8-10 oz. jar, which I tape closed using duct tape. I cut a small X in the middle that I will be able to force the straw through. You're going to have to Duct tape a clean straw over the nozzle after you shake up the rattle can. If you find a straw that fits over it great. If not, you'll have to cut one end of the straw so that you can get it over the tip, then tape it. Push the other end of the straw through the X cut. I use a piece of paper towel wrapped around the straw and over the tape cut to stop any paint that finds its way out of the jar.

I would do the decanting in a garage or outside just in case.

Depress the nozzle, and the paint will start to fill the jar. When you have enough paint, cut the straw near the nozzle, leaving it in the jar. You need to leave the paint for a few hours or more to gas out. I left it over night just to be on the safe side.

Joel

Edited by Joel_W
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