jminer Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) Hello All, I have been asked by a friend to build "the airplane my dad worked on when he was in the Navy". In some basic inquiries, I've determined that her dad was possibly a crew chief (or the Navy equivalent) for one of the VX-4 Black Bunny F-4 Phantoms at Pt. Mugu back in the 1968-1970 timeframe (I don't think the low-viz gray scheme was around back then, but I could be wrong). She told me that her dad's plane had the Playboy bunny on the tail, he was part of a test squadron, and he was responsible for the overall maintenance of the airplane and that the plane had his name on it, but he wasn't the pilot, though he would sometimes have to fly in the back seat to check out the airplane. From what it sounds like, he wasn't the GIB. So with that in mind, I'm wondering if anyone out there would have any information regarding which model of the F-4 (i.e. F-4J, F-4S, etc.) and which BuNos existed at that time for the Black Bunny Phantoms. I'm having my friend try to obtain some further information or photos her dad might have on this, but if anyone knows which BuNo's there were for those, or maybe have some photos from that time frame, or even may know or remember my friend's dad, that would be much appreciated. His last name is Noth. Information on Google is plentiful, but not specific on some items. Really, any information that someone would have on these Phantoms would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! :cheers:/>/> Justin <<<Update>>> As I have found out, my friend's father's jet was BuNo 158350 and was in the standard gull gray over white scheme. If anyone has any photos of this aircraft in the late 60's or early 70's time frame, I would greatly appreciate seeing them. Thank you very much to all who have contributed to this thread! Edited June 19, 2014 by jminer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skull Leader Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) VX-4 (they're called the "Evaluators", btw) operated F-4Js around the 68-70 time frame (and probably some Bs too) So near as I can tell, only 1 F-4J wore the "black bunny/Vandy 1" paint scheme From Boeing, 153783 is generally the most popular: Most of the squadron wore a standard gull grey over white paint scheme From my own collection (most of their jets wore paint schemes like this) There were F-4Ss that also wore the scheme (158358 and 359 were two of them) but they would not have existed during the 68-70 timeframe. As it got later in the 70s, more interesting schemes began to show up (the White Bunny, the blue cammo bunny, the bicentennial scheme, etc) Edited June 17, 2014 by Skull Leader Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jminer Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 Thank you for the info, Skull! I'm having my friend confirm that it was, indeed, the Black Bunny Phantom that her dad worked on and not one of the other aircraft, your information at least narrows down the type and markings if he did work on Vandy 1. Justin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 From Boeing, 153783 is generally the most popular: Monogram did those markings in their 1/48 F-4J kit #5805 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skull Leader Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 And of course they show it with a bunch of tanks on lol This kit and others/decals aren't too hard to find. It's a pretty popular bird. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jminer Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 Thanks Habu and Skull! Justin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian P: Fightertown Decals Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 If you're doing a Black Bunny from 1969 - this is how it looked - bottom F-4J was with VX-4 for several years Technically it was Vandy 9 ;) Later in the late 70s and thru the 80s there were several Black Bunny's at VX-4, and at the same time. hth, brian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jminer Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 That definitely helps, thanks Brian! Also, it appears that my friend may be a bit confused about the aircraft having the bunny on the tail. She was searching her dad's squadron on Google and came up with the photos of the Black Bunny Phantom she sent me, but from what Brian's decal sheet shows, the actual Bunny Phantom didn't appear until the late 80's. Also, anyone know the how/why of the nicknames "Vandy X"? Justin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G_Marcat_Italy Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 All speak of the ultra known Black Bunny, but in the VX4 there has been also the lesser known/ not discussed "all azure phantom", not the two tone camouflaged, I speak of the all azure one in the top of the formation: I'm looking for others images of this Phantom, until now found nothing, look like I'm the only one interested to it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skull Leader Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 jminer, the bunny appeared on the tail of vandy 1 sometime late in 69/early 1970. Plescia's decals predate that by a few months, although you could certainly make 3783 with the bunny on the tail from his sheet. The boeing photo I posted was circa 1970. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skull Leader Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 All speak of the ultra known Black Bunny, but in the VX4 there has been also the lesser known/ not discussed "all azure phantom", not the two tone camouflaged, I speak of the all azure one in the top of the formation: I'm looking for others images of this Phantom, until now found nothing, look like I'm the only one interested to it. Hate to burst your bubble, but that's not "azure blue", it's just weirdly exposed. Here's the same formation earlier in the flight Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G_Marcat_Italy Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Hate to burst your bubble, but that's not "azure blue", it's just weirdly exposed. Here's the same formation earlier in the flight This explain why there was not informations on this F-4. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 The "Vandy" monicker comes from VX-4's other name, The Vanguards ... HTHs ... -Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Boyer Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 That said, it is unusual in that it is overall gray with no white (except for radome), not typical of that time frame. Seems to me that Microscale had a 1/72 sheet of "Phansy Phantoms" that may have had all four of these on the sheet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jminer Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 Wow, all kinds of good stuff in this thread. I'm very thankful for all the contributions. Once I get the build finalized, I'll post a build thread so everyone can follow along. And if anyone has anything to add, keep it coming! Justin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) Old Microscale sheet # 72-137 had three of these four, instead of the plain Lt Gull Gray aircraft it had the YRF-4C New Microscale sheet # AC72-0021 has the same four as 72-137, plus the 5000th Phantom F-4E,,,with color instructions http://www.microscale.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=AC72 towards the bottom, they have 236 in stock New Microscale sheet # AC48-0021 is the same as AC72-0021 http://www.microscale.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=AC48 towards the bottom, they have 231 of those in stock,,,,,,I don't know about the instructions, though, I only have 1/72 decals Edited June 18, 2014 by Rex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G_Marcat_Italy Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 same formation different angle: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jminer Posted June 18, 2014 Author Share Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) We have a winner! Through some creative questioning, my friend was able to determine that the aircraft in question was an F-4J, BuNo 158350 which apparently later became the low-viz Vandy 5 White Bunny aircraft. The aircraft when he worked on it, however, was in the standard gull gray over white scheme. Soooo....with that being said....does anyone know of any 1/48 decals for the VX-4 Phantoms in the gull gray over white paint scheme? Even if it's not the same BuNo? Also, any photos? There are a few I've seen on a Google search, but most are of the aircraft in the White Bunny scheme. Same with decals. :cheers:/> Justin Edited June 18, 2014 by jminer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian P: Fightertown Decals Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 We only covered a few specific jets and timeframes. The 'standard' bunny was around well before our 1989 markings (plenty of 1982 and all through 80s documentation). As for the popular Monogram markings (also done by a few other companies, I can't find any documentation of that scheme until 1973. The big XF was pretty standard through 1975 with the low viz jets. For the record our XF 1969 jet was taken in Aug 69. -brian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jminer Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 We only covered a few specific jets and timeframes. The 'standard' bunny was around well before our 1989 markings (plenty of 1982 and all through 80s documentation). As for the popular Monogram markings (also done by a few other companies, I can't find any documentation of that scheme until 1973. The big XF was pretty standard through 1975 with the low viz jets. For the record our XF 1969 jet was taken in Aug 69. -brian Thanks, Brian! I greatly appreciate the information. Justin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aim9xray Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 The "Vandy" monicker comes from VX-4's other name, The Vanguards ... You'd think so; I did for a long time. It turns out that "Vandy" was short for the squadron's 1950's radio callsign - "Vanderbilt". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 You'd think so; I did for a long time. It turns out that "Vandy" was short for the squadron's 1950's radio callsign - "Vanderbilt". Thanks, that's interesting. I wonder if the "Vanderbilt" radio callsign was derived from the Vanguards name? -Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) I can grab the photo tomorrow for you (it is dark outside now) but, Colors & Markings Vol 22 US Navy F-4 Phantom Pacific Coast page 55, has a photo of F-4J 158350 as XF-5 in Light Gull Gray over White November 1972, before it became White Vandy 5 (two photos on page 57 in May 1977) I won't be posting this photo after today's posts,,,,,,,but, the location is up there if anyone really wants to use it for modeling Edited June 19, 2014 by Rex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) same formation different angle: I know I've said that you can't deduce colors from photos, but is it absolute that 0435 is overall gull gray? In this picture, it truly looks like it's an overall light blue. In the original picture that's strangely exposed, I wouldn't think gull gray would look that blue. Also, playing devil's advocate, the formation seems to be made up of "special" paint schemes. Why would they include a simple gray scheme? Rex, thanks for the lead on the decal. I have an old Revell set of Blue Angels. I'm going to build them and then paint them up like the picture. I was wondering what to do about decal. Now I don't have to worry about it. Yes, I realize two of them are B's, but I'm trying to lessen my stash, so I'll just use what's in the box. Would you happen to have 2 extra IR sensors that you won't be using? At least that would make them look somewhat like B's, although the Revell F-4's are a bit basic to begin with. It will be a fun quick build. Edit: Never mind on the IR sensors. In pulling out the kits, they are already included. Edited June 19, 2014 by Darren Roberts Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jminer Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 I know I've said that you can't deduce colors from photos, but is it absolute that 0435 is overall gull gray? In this picture, it truly looks like it's an overall light blue. In the original picture that's strangely exposed, I wouldn't think gull gray would look that blue. Also, playing devil's advocate, the formation seems to be made up of "special" paint schemes. Why would they include a simple gray scheme? Rex, thanks for the lead on the decal. I have an old Revell set of Blue Angels. I'm going to build them and then paint them up like the picture. I was wondering what to do about decal. Now I don't have to worry about it. Yes, I realize two of them are B's, but I'm trying to lessen my stash, so I'll just use what's in the box. Would you happen to have 2 extra IR sensors that you won't be using? At least that would make them look somewhat like B's, although the Revell F-4's are a bit basic to begin with. It will be a fun quick build. Edit: Never mind on the IR sensors. In pulling out the kits, they are already included. Hey Darren, Would you happen to know right offhand if your letter masks for 1/48 are the right size for the XF that I'd need to put on the tail? It looks like the letters are drop shadowed with black over white. The letter masks would be perfect for getting that effect since I'd have to do white as the base color, then offset the masks slightly and do the black. Are they self-adhesive as well? Thanks! Justin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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