Pep Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 If i recall correctly, the OOB catergory was intended to "even the field" between those who had the skills to scratch build, or funds to invest in aftermarket. In my opinion, the OOB category is outdated. Today, you can spend more money on finishing products (pigments, washes, chipping medium) than in the kit it self. To me this invalidates the reason for an OOB category completely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 IMHO I don't think the OOB category in general is outdated so much that it should go away. Perhaps be tweaked but not go away. One other aspect to consider is what I consider your "in-between" age builders that just got out of the juniors category and haven't really gotten in to all the aftermarket scratch build realm yet. The OOB class is a good way to start really nailing down the build basics and really get judged on what you do. Sure, you're right taht you can spend just as much money on finishing products and such on an OOB build, but IF the judges follow the rules none of that should matter. Only that what you did do was done properly with as flawless as possible execution. I do think however OOB is a bit of a misnomer and should maybe read built per instructions or built from stock...whatever. Also, some of these newer shake and bake almost completed kits really change the game as well. In theory, one could take a nearly completed model from the box and slap it together and have a pretty big advantage over others. Either way, it's all about fun and learning and fellowship...or at least should be. Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aaronw Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 IMHO I don't think the OOB category in general is outdated so much that it should go away. Perhaps be tweaked but not go away. One other aspect to consider is what I consider your "in-between" age builders that just got out of the juniors category and haven't really gotten in to all the aftermarket scratch build realm yet. The OOB class is a good way to start really nailing down the build basics and really get judged on what you do. Sure, you're right taht you can spend just as much money on finishing products and such on an OOB build, but IF the judges follow the rules none of that should matter. Only that what you did do was done properly with as flawless as possible execution. I do think however OOB is a bit of a misnomer and should maybe read built per instructions or built from stock...whatever. Also, some of these newer shake and bake almost completed kits really change the game as well. In theory, one could take a nearly completed model from the box and slap it together and have a pretty big advantage over others. Either way, it's all about fun and learning and fellowship...or at least should be. Bill That is why I was thinking a "basic" category would be a good replacement. It could be clearly spelled out what skills could be applied, rather than the current OOB which leaves things such as finishing techniques relatively unmentioned, and simple but "outside the box" techniques are prohibited. Personally I don't think a heavily weathered model really fits the intent of OOB but I believe is acceptable under the rules, while snagging a couple of drop tanks out of another kit (very simple and well within the means of almost any builder), is not allowed under current OOB rules. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pep Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Perhaps Split the categories? Novice, Intermediate and Master? I know most contest do have enough models to do this, but it might prove useful in bigger contests? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SonyKen Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 All, Some have expressed here that the OOB category is outdated. I am of the opinion that the entire IPMS judging system is out-dated. I have always enjoyed more competing in contests that are based on the merit system of gold, silver and bronze. That is judging every mold based on its own merits and not against other models within the same category. Many of the AMPS contests (if not all) use this judging system. The system is more expensive for the hosting club or chapter by having to have more trophies/awards, but every modeler in the contest stands a greater chance of walking away with an award. I consider that winning a bronze or even a silver to be more of an inspiration to continue builing and reaching that goal of gold medal class of building. I have only attained that goal of gold awards a couple or three times in my long modeling career, but it fuels me to keep building and competeing. Cheers! Best Regards, Ken Bailey (SonyKen) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 All, Some have expressed here that the OOB category is outdated. I am of the opinion that the entire IPMS judging system is out-dated. I have always enjoyed more competing in contests that are based on the merit system of gold, silver and bronze. That is judging every mold based on its own merits and not against other models within the same category. Many of the AMPS contests (if not all) use this judging system. The system is more expensive for the hosting club or chapter by having to have more trophies/awards, but every modeler in the contest stands a greater chance of walking away with an award. I consider that winning a bronze or even a silver to be more of an inspiration to continue builing and reaching that goal of gold medal class of building. I have only attained that goal of gold awards a couple or three times in my long modeling career, but it fuels me to keep building and competeing. Cheers! Best Regards, Ken Bailey (SonyKen) While I understand what you're saying, I would argue that doesn't make the IPMS way outdated, simply different. Both ways have their merits and some prefer one way over the other. That's the beauty of having both type systems around. If you're the type that is driven to shoot for a single top spot and want to feel like you're work puts your build over others, then go to the IPMS style contest. If you're the type that just wants acknowledgement of a job well done and don't want to compete against others then go to the AMP type contest. Each can co-exist and neither is right or wrong. Personally I go back and forth in my attitude. There are times when I feel like I'd rather just have someone look at a build and tell me if it meets a certain criteria, and getting a gold medal would be great. But there are other times when I feel like a friendly competition among other modelers is what I'd rather do. but I'd say in general, I prefer the IPMS ruled events. I like seeing a winner, even if I'm not it (which I typically am not) But I do get driven to try to become that one winner. Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oldgoat63 Posted June 28, 2014 Author Share Posted June 28, 2014 Again I want to thank everyone for their comments. It really doesn't matter to much to me if I ever win or even ever come close to placing in a contest. I can give you a personal experience with a contest I had entered when I was 16. I entered a Panzerkampf wagon IV. An old monogram kit. It was an ok build. I was happy with it. My dad took me to the local IPMS club. He said I should bring my tank for show and tell so I did. Well a contest was happening that evening. So I entered it in the armor for my age group. There was one other tank, I think it was a Patton. When the votes were counted, I won first place in my group, but the kid that entered the Patton won best in show because his model got the most first place votes of any model in any category. I won, but it was dubious, because the only person who voted for my model was my dad. I didn't go back to any IPMS meetings or chapters until recently right here in Columbia SC. All I want to do is build models and have fun doing it. I know I'll never win against the guy that reworks the entire fuselage because it is off of by 4 scale inches. I don't care if the cockpit of the P-47 built by Curtis wasn't that particular shade of green. Maybe IPMS should have a DON'T GIVE frack category. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spejic Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 I know I'll never win against the guy that reworks the entire fuselage because it is off of by 4 scale inches. I don't care if the cockpit of the P-47 built by Curtis wasn't that particular shade of green. Neither of those things count in IPMS contest rules. Maybe IPMS should have a DON'T GIVE frack category. Every show I've been to has an an option for displaying models. They even waive the contest fee. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoFo Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Yeah, I always find it interesting that the people who complain most about contests (of any judging format), don't seem to understand how they work. They're almost universally about craftsmanship. Period. Simply put, if you build this: *Perfectly* Seams filled and sanded, panel lines restored, no glue smears or blobs, no masking residue, perfect alignment, smooth paint, no overspray, no decal silvering, decals properly aligned, consistently/sensibly weathered... It will beat *any* Tamigawa kit that has any of those construction faults. If you paint your Starfix Mustang chrome silver, or field green, it will beat *any* Tamigawa kit that has any of those construction faults. If your Starfix Mustang has little-to-no weathering, it will beat a pre-shaded, post shaded, filtered, powdered, washed, drybrushed Tamigawa kit that has any of those construction faults. If you only add a set of True Details' ridiculous looking flattened wheels to your Starfix Mustang, it will beat *any* Tamigawa kit that's encrusted in resin, photoetch, vacform, white metal, turned brass, 3D printed and scratchbuilt extras, if it has any of those construction faults. If your Starfix Mustang cost $5 and took 10 hours to build, it will beat *any* Tamigawa kit that has had thousands of dollars, and thousands of hours invested into it, if it has any of those construction faults. The rules don't care what you built, or what you did to it - for good or for bad: you picked the build yourself, degree of difficulty is your own fault - they only, *ONLY* care how well you built it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Great choice of kit for your example, MoFo. I think it would be fun to build a short stack of Starfix T-38/F-5B kits, and one Hasegawa next to them (with Anne's handwriting on that entry sheet),,,,,,,,just to overhear all the possible comments about how much better the Hasegawa kit is, lol. I want to detail up one Starfix T-38 and see if the addition of an interior will make it look very much better, with Two Bob's decals, and some work around the nose and wheels. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grey Ghost 531 Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 All, Some have expressed here that the OOB category is outdated. I am of the opinion that the entire IPMS judging system is out-dated. I have always enjoyed more competing in contests that are based on the merit system of gold, silver and bronze. That is judging every mold based on its own merits and not against other models within the same category. Many of the AMPS contests (if not all) use this judging system. The system is more expensive for the hosting club or chapter by having to have more trophies/awards, but every modeler in the contest stands a greater chance of walking away with an award. I consider that winning a bronze or even a silver to be more of an inspiration to continue builing and reaching that goal of gold medal class of building. I have only attained that goal of gold awards a couple or three times in my long modeling career, but it fuels me to keep building and competeing. Cheers! Best Regards, Ken Bailey (SonyKen) Besides the cost of awards, the other big drawback to GSB judging is (are) judges. It takes probably double the amount of judges' time to evaluate each and every model to do a good GSB job, unlike IPMS style 1,2,3 judging where maybe half of the models get at most a cursory glance to put them out of the running for even 3rd. At the shows were I have judged, it was hard enough to get the number of volunteers it takes to do 1,2,3 judging by a reasonable time for awards. I'm not saying one is better than another, just the costs in time are different. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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