Clear coat woes

[Hawk One]

Hello

I'm back in the hobby after a 25 year hiatus and don't remember gloss coats being this hard.

I'm spraying at about 15 psi and have tried varying distances, wet application to misting several coats, Tamiya clear to Model Master Acrylics clear to Future and just can't seem to get it without imitating an orange.

I'm at a loss and don't really want to ruin another model.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Hawk One

[S K Loh]

Hi Hawk One,

If you are going for a gloss finish in my opinion, Future is a better choice and the way to go is by brush painting. I am doing 1/144 most of the time and I find this is the best approach. If you are doing a larger scale perhaps you may consider a correspondingly bigger size brush. I use a size 6 brush to apply Future straight on. I have tried once on a 1/72 kit with the same brush and it turned out pretty OK. It will require about 2-3 days to settle and cure to a smooth shine. The application must be wet enough to allow the self-settling properties to take effect to get the kind of sheen. Re-application may be necessary if you want a super gloss finish. Air brushing does not yield the shine I desire from experience. Moreover, one has to contend with other factors affecting the shine effect. For instance, the tip size of your air brush, air pressure and flow rate, and the quick build-up of at the tip with acrylics. I hope this piece of info is useful to you. Best regards.

S K Loh

[Chris L]

2 nd opinion. Hand brush make it sort of thick.

My approach is diluted with 50 % Tamiya X 20A and 20/25 percent Galeria flow retarder ( Hobby Lobby ) I also mix a percentage of Future in with the tamiya or Gunze paints ( aquous )

Cheer, Christian

[Thorsten Wieking]

Future :/ Tamiya X20A in a 50:50 ratio, slightly wet via airbrush. Maybe try a different pressure setting.

Cheers

Thorsten

[Joel_W]

Hawk One,

Welcome back to the hobby. I was on nearly a 30 year Hiatus before I came back, so I know 1st hand what you're going through.

I use two different methods to attain a smooth clear gloss finish. 1st is by air brushing Testors Glosscoat cut 50/50 with lacquer thinner. I air brush this at a flow rate of 12 psi. That's the psi when you're painting, not the psi before you depress the trigger button on your air brush. Let dry, then a final wet coat cut 40/60. The 2nd method I use is Pledge (Future) cut 50/50 with Windex-D at the same flow psi. I apply mist coats, then let dry. A final heavier coat or two of Pledge cut 25/75.

If you want even a shinier surface, you can polish the surface with the Micromesh system of 4,000, 6,000, 8,000, then 12,000 grit, or a paste like the Novus polishing cream.

Joel

Edited July 21, 2014 by Joel_W

[Thommo]

I've never had a clear coat (gloss or matt) do the orange peel thing. I've used:

Future:windex 50:50

Pollyscale clears:distilled water 50:50

Tamiya acrylic clears:Tamiya acrylic thinner 50:50

Vallejo flat varnish:windex 50:50

Only problem I ever had was a Pollyscale matt clear going misty from not mixing enough /not enough thinner.

[Hawk One]

Thank you all for the feedback.

It's great to be back. Didn't realize how much I missed it until I started up again. One thing I have learnt since starting again is that Tamiya tape must be one of man's greatest inventions!

As for my gloss coat woes, I was spraying straight from the bottles with no mix. Mixing was the one thing I had not tried. And your advice seems to have paid off. I was able to spray a mix of Windex/Future without orange peeling. I'm going try it with your recommendations of 50/50.

Now here's a follow up question. Is there a general rule of thumb as to how many gloss coats are required before decals won't silver?

As soon as I can figure out how to post pictures, I will post my first attempt after a 25 yr absence.

Thanks

Edited July 24, 2014 by Hawk One

[Joel_W]

Hawk One,

There are many modelers who don't thin Future before air brushing, but I've always found that you end up with a rough surface. As to how many coats of gloss one needs before decal silvering is eliminated, there isn't a cut and dry answer. The silvering is caused by the hills and valleys of the matt paint. It's very hard to fill and smooth it out with clear coats. What you need to do is lightly polish the surface 1st. I use Micromesh pads if my surface is rough to the touch. I polish with just 4,000 & 6,000. Clean with Iso Alcohol. One thing that I found is that if you paint with thin light coats, the surface is usually smooth enough not to have to polish with the pads, but just go over it with a clean piece of cotton cloth, which will knock down any small high spots.

The 2nd part of the solution is proper decal application. I use the Microscale system in getting the decals to lay down, especially into the nooks and crannies. It's the clear film that dries above the surface that causes the silvering issues. In the old days we use to cut out each decal separately to remove as much clear film as possible, and that included any within the decal, like letters. I've slowly been going back to that with excellent results. Of course it takes a lot longer to apply the decals, but it's the end results that count.

One other side note. I thin my Tamiya Acrylics with their Yellow top lacquer Thinner, not their X20-A alcohol based thinner. The LC breaks down the paint particles much finer then the X20-A does. Hence, a smoother surface. Less prep work for decaling.

Joel

Edited July 24, 2014 by Joel_W

[chuck540z3]

The thinning of the clear lacquer or Future mentioned above is very important, but the number one reason for orange peel, assuming the surface isn't bumpy to begin with, it to spray enough paint/Future until the surface is completely WET. Orange peel can be caused by variable drying of slightly dry and wet applications, sometimes within seconds of each other. If the surface is wet, all the drier components are immediately re-dissolved, allowing the paint/Future to lay down flat and smooth.

Now the hard part. This takes practice and isn't easy the first few times you try it, because fully wet paint also means the paint could run, so you are walking a fine line between nice smooth paint and a running paint disaster. As you paint, rotate the part so that it's always close to horizontal. For curved surfaces, get the horizontal surface wet and let it "set" by drying a bit before rotating the part and doing another pass. This drying time can be anywhere from 10 seconds to maybe a minute, depending on the paint used. I often use a space heater next to by spray booth to speed up drying times for this very reason.

Good luck!