ya-gabor Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Just as in the joke, there is both good and bad news. We are going to have at last the second generation MiG-21 kit but for the time with a twist. Has anyone noticed the mentioning in the August INFO online publication the approaching new MiG-21 kit from Eduard??? Last year at Moson Show Mr. Sulc has said that the next generation MiG-21 should be around for March 2014. We all know that Eduard was overwhelmed with work on the 1/47th scale Me-109 G kit so the release of the MiG-21PF was delayed. The delay was confirmed by Mr. Sulc at this years Moson Show and he said that it should be around in the Autumn, probably in September. Now here is some news on this in the latest Eduard INFO magazine: "Even more complicated looks the upcoming MiG-21 in CSLA service Limited Edition kit. This one is prepared for October, the kit is dedicated to the service of the MiG-21s of the second generation (PF, PFM, R) in Czechoslovak Air Force in 70s, 80s and 90s. What is a problem is the number of the plastic parts needed. The kit will contain parts for MiG-21PF, PFM and R versions, all together 14 frames. You will surely understand it is not easy to put all the parts to the box. even to the biggest box we have. The basic kit will contain alternative parts for all three versions, it will be possible to build just one of them. Unfortunately, we haven’t space enough event for the weapon frames, which must be missing in the basic kit. We will fix the situation using the Overtrees concept. The first one contains the weapon frames, the second one contains the frames with small parts shared by all the versions, and the rest three items contain the complete sets for each of the versions. This concept offers everybody a good chance to complete enough quantity of the complete sets of the plastic parts for any of the version. . ." It goes on for some time. Only to end with "Uff, this is really not easy, right?" It is not easy at all!!! Why not just simply release a kit of the PF on its own and for those with special interest in the Czech AF give them this set. Well I am sure in time they will do a solo PF kit as the above mentioned kit is just a Limited Edition. But this is the first chance to get the long waited MiG-21PF kit, so a lot of people will have to buy the 14 sprues of the kit and lots of other Overtrees sets to be able to build just one PF and in the end he will be left with many leftover sprues , and tons of unused decals. I am sure there are people who would have liked to have this Limited Edition Czech AF set with all the Overtrees going with it, and they are going to be happy, but why not cater for those as well who just want a straight forward MiG-21 PF kit??? One good news in the INFO: "The photo etch will be also available as a separate items, for all the three version, and for the PFM two color versions will be available, the green and the grey ones." This was a question raised when the original PFM kit was released and Mr. Ferkl’s answer was that they had a look at the PFM in a Czech museum and it had a green cockpit and not even under the green was there any grey, so they don’t believe there was a grey cockpit originally. I have shown him the original, factory new PFM/M canopy I have and it is grey just as period photos show the cockpits to be grey. At least with time they have reconsidered this point and now one will be able to build the grey cockpit version as originally used. Anyway, sooner or later we will have a brand new MiG-21 PF (Type 76) kit on our hands, with a new fuselage, new wings, new canopy, the SK ejection seat, new back and new fin. From this with cross kiting one will be able to build many further versions of the PF, like the one with the “blown” SPS wing and short fin, one with broad fin with parachute at its base and endless combination of them. There were many interim versions! Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 Sometimes I just shake my head at Eduard. Seems like they live their entire lives cooped up in their headquarters, immersed in their sprues and boxes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mingwin Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 (edited) i think Eduard wanted to make sure to get the maximum money input they can for their new kits... people that are too much eager to wait for the "PF version only box" next year, will pay big money this Fall... what i don't get, is the "box too small" story... they could have use the same sized box as for their 1/48 F-4B box... and fit 3 complete 1/48 MiG-21 kits in there!, with all the extra sprues... again, it's just a matter of getting more money directly to the factory... as there is only the Eduard store that sells overtree kits/sets... i surely won't pay for that big limited/complicated/incomplete edition... i only build Russian stuff, with Russian/soviet stars... no need for extra Czech roundels in my spare box... i'll wait the required time for the PF profipack... Edited August 2, 2014 by mingwin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tango Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 There is a new decal sheet from Armycast in 1/48 scale for the first and the second generation MiG-21s in duty of Warsaw Pact air forces. Contains two sheets (size 20 x 20 cm each), printed by BOA Agency. Totaly offers 49 camouflage options. Price is 18.60 EUR. http://modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1010547 http://modelforum.cz/download/file.php?id=1010546 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Petarvu Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 (edited) ...Seriusly Eduard. I think people in Cz who understand what's in the box and what's not might buy it... Maybe they should sell all kits as overtrees only, sprue by sprue! And we should have special edition overtrees with different pilots pants or tarantulas?! P Edited September 26, 2014 by Petarvu Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 ...Seriusly Eduard. I think people in Cz who understand what's in the box and what's not might buy it... Maybe they should sell all kits as overtrees only, sprue by sprue! And we should have special edition overtrees with different pilots pants or tarantulas?! :sunrevolves:/> P Yeah... somewhere along the way, these guys seem to have lost focus. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoFo Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 what i don't get, is the "box too small" story... they could have use the same sized box as for their 1/48 F-4B box... and fit 3 complete 1/48 MiG-21 kits in there!, with all the extra sprues... again, it's just a matter of getting more money directly to the factory... as there is only the Eduard store that sells overtree kits/sets... Yeah. Huh? It's not like they're a bakery or pizzeria or something. They're not using the same generic boxes for everything. If you're releasing a new kit, you tool and pop your sprues, you print your decals, you print your instructions... and you print your box tops. And since you've got to make an entirely new box top for every single release, that means you can make the box for your new kit whatever size you want. There is no such thing as "our boxes are too small for this future release". The only *possible* explanation I can think of is that they print and cut their boxes in-house, and they don't have dies to cut larger sizes. Which, okay, but again, the F-4 boxes are huge and would certainly fit all the sprues... and even if they're not, you can outsource the packaging to get whatever size you want for not a lot of money. Which is probably the real reason. Money. Bigger boxes cost more to make (especially if they are outsourced), which eats into profit. They cost more to ship, again eating into profits. Maybe they think the added cost will eat into their sales. Likely, they're hoping people will stock up on overtrees and accessories. Kind of like buying in installments, they probably hope customers will spend more on the various components individually than Eduard would have been able to be able to charge for a single, complete kit package. A full kit might sell for $75; if they sell the 'neutered' kit for $50 and people stack on a bunch of overtrees at $12 a throw (and you'll need two of each to complete the kits), suddenly people are forking over $100 to Eduard. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted September 29, 2014 Author Share Posted September 29, 2014 Back from Prague with "few" MiG-21PF's in my bag. The E Day was fantastic, just as visits to different Czech museums with lots of photos and even more measurements. About the kit more a bit later on, first need some sleep. The good news was that the brand new MiG-21PF was not only available as part of the "Czech Migs" giga box but also separately in an Overtrees box. Just plastic and nothing else, or to be more precise the etching for the PF was also available but separately. The price of the Overtrees set was really stunning with the 20% "show only" discount. For the moment there are no separate decal sheet to go with the kit in the Overtrees set but hopefully this will be also available separately. For a full Profipack version of the MiG-21PF we will have to wait a few months but it will be worth the wait! As to the Czech MiG's box, it was really big, but not only in physical sense but also in the range of choices given by the manufacturer. If for nothing else it is worth getting it since there is an excellent book included in the box exclusively with this set. The Brassin cockpit set for the PF I also had to include in my shopping bag. Looks nice at a first glance but will want to take a closer look at the SK seat included in it. More on the kit and some photos a bit later on. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sierrascale Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 As to the Czech MiG's box, it was really big, but not only in physical sense but also in the range of choices given by the manufacturer. If for nothing else it is worth getting it since there is an excellent book included in the box exclusively with this set. The Brassin cockpit set for the PF I also had to include in my shopping bag. Looks nice at a first glance but will want to take a closer look at the SK seat included in it. More on the kit and some photos a bit later on. Best regards Gabor Wow, can't wait for this set to arrive here in the US. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 So you only get the narrow chord vertical fin in the PF?? That's nice, but a huge number (probably a majority) of PF's and all FL's had the wider chord tail. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Laurent Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 A wide chord fin for the FL would have be appreciated indeed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) A wide chord fin for the FL would have be appreciated indeed. I believe with future releases it would be possible to intermix the available sprues to make the millions of inter types going from the narrow fin early PF, all the way to the PFM. We have proposed this to Mr. Sulc at E Day for future boxing of the PF and there is a chance that it will be available. :)/> The painted etch set which goes with the PF kit has the cockpit grey (as it should be on factory new aircraft) with black instrument panel, but some of the Czech modelers already were asking for the blue cockpit version of the etch set. On overhaul the Czech aircraft did receive the blue cockpit (over the original grey) so the request is valid and I am sure it will come sooner or later, just as they did both grey and blue cockpit etchings for the PFM version ( I prefer the original grey version). It is only a question of changing the paint from grey to blue when printing the etchings. Best regards Gabor P.s. I have to add that I am more than happy with the narrow fin as this is the type that the Hungarian AF was using. Now it is only a question of getting (making) right Hungarian markings for it. Edited September 30, 2014 by ya-gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) I had to spend some money in the Eduard shop. The bigger problem was how to get it all home. Here is only the PF part of my shopping: Opening the box. Well one of them. :)/> Some of the new sprues that go to make up the MiG-21 PF. Here is the one with the brand new narrow fins. Here is the one with the fuselage. It differs from the earlier versions in having a new cockpit for the forward opening canopy and of course the new parachute housing under the fuselage. The wing without the SPS system. Of course the new one piece canopy typical of the early vesrions (F-13 and PF). The only reason why we are given two canopies is that one is for the closed, and one is for the open cockpit version. The front part of the canopy "went slightly under" the fuselage line when open so you have two versions to fit both versions. More soon Best regards Gabor Edited September 30, 2014 by ya-gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sharkmouth Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 That Gabor for the look see! It seems I will be replacing my Academy kits in the future and hopefully my shark mouth sheets will fit a properly scaled model... I still have one each of the East German last flight PFMs from Cutting Edge and Aeromaster. At work, I don't have my files so am unaware of a narrow chord MiG-21PF with a shark mouth scheme. Regards, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Very few (if any) narrow chord PF's would have been in service at the end of the Cold War. I believe the Indian FL's were, but they were all wide chord fins. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat Fan Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Nice, When can we expect first generation of Mig 21, model F13 ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sharkmouth Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Very few (if any) narrow chord PF's would have been in service at the end of the Cold War. I believe the Indian FL's were, but they were all wide chord fins. True, but they 'could' have the schemes applied. I know that the Yugoslav MiG-21F-13 with a sharkmouth was painted by the owner of the night club where it was displayed but maybe there were other narrow chord Fishbeds? Regards, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 If you're not concerned that the airplane was in service with a shark mouth, then you could do about anything you wanted to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sharkmouth Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 If you're not concerned that the airplane was in service with a shark mouth, then you could do about anything you wanted to. Actually, I only base my projects on real aircraft, not what if schemes so I still wonder if there are any other narrow chord fin Fishbeds with a sharkmouth. The first time I saw Yuoglsav Black 504, I thought it was in a museum: My mistake was realized when I visited the club. A second MiG-21F-13 (actually an Aero S-106) is found in a museum: These are acceptable to me and I don't bother to find out if they flew in that scheme. Regards, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Here is a bit more detail on the brand new MiG-21PF kit. Some close ups of the plastic. On new sprue S you find the brand new wings with the original small flaps found only on the early MiG-21F-13 and PF fighters. Another identifying feature of the early types was the internal housing for the parachute on the left underside of the fuselage. From here a long steel line connected the chute to the hook of the parachute on the ventral fin. Sprue V has the new fins as well as lots of small parts including the SK ejection seat and parts of the cockpit. On sprue U you find the most important part of the kit, the new fuselage which is different in many ways from the previous kits. One part of note is the quality of injection molding. While on some previous kits the nose underside and the area after the nose gear “lost” the surface details completely here it looks good. All the other details speak for themselves. More soon Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Looks nice... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sharkmouth Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 It looks very nice indeed! Now to place an order with Eduard for their Overtrees. At least the museum birds don't need weapons (and I already have some left over from their previous kits). Thanks Gabor, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JBr Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Actually overtrees are full kit, including weapons. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 Actually overtrees are full kit, including weapons. Yes it has all the sprues needed for making a full kit with all the extras. I did not see any point in including photos of sprues which everyone already knows from previous kits and which have common parts for almost all MiG-21 kits. The ones show are the brand new sprues for the MiG-21 PF aircraft. The things missing from the Overtrees set is the - instruction sheet, - decals - masks - and the etched set. The last two are available separately of which I would prefer only the etched set and this is what I had shown in the original set of photos. The instruction sheet is available on the net to down load from Eduards site. So it is only the decal sheet needed now. The decals in the "big box" Stribrne Sipy contains only Czech aircraft so this decal is not a big loos to most of us. The one thing I would have been interested from it was the stencils for the kit. I am sure other manuacturers will make suitable PF decals so by the time the kit is built (of course this does not apply to fast builders putting it together in just one weekend) we should have suitable decals or you should refer to the spares box. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sharkmouth Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Actually overtrees are full kit, including weapons. After reading it a second time, I see that it is the Czech special release that 'couldn't' fit the armament trees. Thanks again JBr! The decals in the "big box" Stribrne Sipy contains only Czech aircraft so this decal is not a big loos to most of us. The one thing I would have been interested from it was the stencils for the kit. I am sure other manuacturers will make suitable PF decals so by the time the kit is built (of course this does not apply to fast builders putting it together in just one weekend) we should have suitable decals or you should refer to the spares box. Agreed! Thanks again Gabor. Regards, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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