F4U Question

[Jennings]

I've searched, and I can't find a definitive answer to these questions (if they exist). Regarding walkway lines and non-skid areas on the upper wings of F4Us:

1. It appears the black walkway lines were only found early on (approximately bird cage production). Anyone have better info?

2. Tamiya's 1/48 F4U-1/-1A/-1D instructions show a 10" wide non-skid (?) black walkway extending from the trailing edge up to the spar inboard of the wing fold, including the flap surface. Does anyone know if this was in fact non-skid, and whether (especially on GSB airplanes) it was left in the dark grey nonskid finish, or if it might have been painted in the local camouflage color??

3. Did later F4Us (again, especially the GSB airplanes) ever have the walkway stripes?

4. Was any of this dependent on whether the a/c was produced by Vought, Goodyear, or Brewster?

The more I look, the confuseder I get about it...

Tks!

J

[Finn]

Check these photos:

USS Essex May 1945:

http://naval.aviation.museum/emuwebdoncoms/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=40115

USS Bunker Hill 05/06/1945:

http://naval.aviation.museum/emuwebdoncoms/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=68240

it looks like the non-skid was there, it doesn't look like stripes are present.

Jari

[Spruemeister]

There are some interesting paint issues with the insignia of the Corsairs in the first photo. The "NO STEP" on the inboard flaps is also of note.

Rick L.

[11bee]

Check these photos:

USS Essex May 1945:

http://naval.aviation.museum/emuwebdoncoms/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=40115

USS Bunker Hill 05/06/1945:

http://naval.aviation.museum/emuwebdoncoms/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=68240

it looks like the non-skid was there, it doesn't look like stripes are present.

Jari

What's with the screwy national insignia on the upper wings? Most of the aircraft on the USS Essex pic have it, same with the Bunker Hill Corsair.

Finn, as usual, thanks for the great pics!

[niart17]

I have a good photo of the birdcage sitting outside at Pensacola and it is in fact non-skid material on that plane. It also appears there is a smaller area of non-skit closer to fuse but it's hard to tell in the my photo if that's what it is. I'll try to post up the pic as soon as I can for you. There are no indications I can see of an outline but being that the plane was underwater so long who knows what was there.

BTW, also in that first photo of interest is the guy working with the gun access panels open and the wings folded. I'd never seen that before.

Bill

[Jennings]

Thanks all. I still can't figure out if the non-skid on the GSB airplanes is left dark grey/black or if it's overpainted in blue.

PS: Note just about all the non-factory applied markings on those airplanes have *major* overspray, non-square corners, uneven edges, etc. How many decals portray that? (hint: check out fündekals!) :)

[niart17]

What's with the screwy national insignia on the upper wings? Most of the aircraft on the USS Essex pic have it, same with the Bunker Hill Corsair.

Finn, as usual, thanks for the great pics!

Just a guess, but it looks like they've mixed around the ammunition belt cover doors. I didn't know that would be possible but if you look, one of the outside doors has part of the point from the star and the one that's where the point should be has the edge of the bar. I guess the doors are interchangeable. Just my guess.

Bill

[Jennings]

The odd thing is, even if you swapped ammo bay doors from one airplane to another, the factory applied insignia should (theoretically) be in more or less exactly the same place, so you shouldn't see massive shifts in its position from one airplane to another. I wonder if some of the light colored panels aren't maybe zinc chromate from having been repaired and primed, but not painted blue for whatever reason?

[niart17]

I did a little more reading on it. Apparently all 6 of the boxes are interchangeable and the lids are integrated on the box. So it looks like they put some of the boxes that were painted while in the outside upper location into the lower inside slot and vice-versa. That could make some interesting patterns. They look like those little puzzles you get as a kid where you have to slide around the pieces to make a picture. :woot.gif:/>

Edited August 11, 2014 by niart17

[Finn]

A few more pics:

http://naval.aviation.museum/emuwebdoncoms/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=22528

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/e7116f2c90d2c37c_large

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/3d939616789db4e4_large

http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/ca1c0c9e21d257e7_large

Jari

[Jennings]

Even more confusing. The last one is clearly a -1A (bubble top), and it clearly has the 2" wide stripes.

On another subject - does anyone know for sure what numbers go on what ammo bay doors?

[niart17]

Even more confusing. The last one is clearly a -1A (bubble top), and it clearly has the 2" wide stripes.

On another subject - does anyone know for sure what numbers go on what ammo bay doors?

Well, on this one they all have "3". :blink:

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o152/formicarufa/F4U-180.jpg

Bill

[Tailspin Turtle]

From Dana Bell:

You're right about those wingspar walkway lines being there on the GSB aircraft. As you said, they were very difficult to see on Glossy Sea Blue, but they were there on all Corsairs. In some cases, only the white "WALKWAY" decal can be seen.

The non-skid walkway in the wing hollow is another matter. The Navy and the manufacturers did everything they could to reduce drag on the Corsair - every ounce of speed mattered - and that non-skid section was a speed-eater. Designers tried a variety of paints, mats, and surfaces, but it wasn't until the step was introduced in the right inboard flap that the non-skid rectangle was eliminated altogether. After the war, when crew safety became more a greater issue than speed, the non-skid began to reappear.

[Joe Hegedus]

The odd thing is, even if you swapped ammo bay doors from one airplane to another, the factory applied insignia should (theoretically) be in more or less exactly the same place, so you shouldn't see massive shifts in its position from one airplane to another. I wonder if some of the light colored panels aren't maybe zinc chromate from having been repaired and primed, but not painted blue for whatever reason?

The 'doors' are the long, narrow, chordwise panels on the wings. The spanwise rectangular ones are actually the ammo boxes, and are removable and interchangable. If they're not installed in the same place, the insignia won't be complete.

[Jennings]

Y'learn something new every day...

Thanks Tommy!

Edited August 12, 2014 by Jennings

[Jennings]

So Joe (or Tommy), I just realized I had a scan of the Tamiya 1/32 decal placement guide that shows the walkways. But why are the numbers on the ammo can tops shown on the instructions like this:

Left wing:

1 1

1 1

2 1

Right wing:

3 3

3 3

3 4

Shouldn't there be a 5 and a 6, since all normal F4Us had 6x guns???

Edited August 12, 2014 by Jennings

[don f]

So Joe (or Tommy), I just realized I had a scan of the Tamiya 1/32 decal placement guide that shows the walkways. But why are the numbers on the ammo can tops shown on the instructions like this:

Left wing:

1 1

1 1

2 1

Right wing:

3 3

3 3

3 4

Shouldn't there be a 5 and a 6, since all normal F4Us had 6x guns???

From the Vought F4U-1 outer wing panel assy. drawing, the black walkway stripes are called out as 1" wide. The center section drawing shows the anti-skid walkway to be 12" wide. Same applied to the wing flap. The drawing notes state that the anti-skid walkway was to be painted blue-gray with a 1" black border. Surfacer was not to be applied under the anti-skid material. Anti-skid material was to be applied to the step in the upper surface of the wing center section. Same as shown in the images.

There were six ammo boxes in each outer wing panel. Each box held 200 rounds except the after outboard boxes. These were less deep than the other boxes, to fit the wing contour, and held 175 rounds. The five 200 round boxes were interchangeable on the left panel and on the right panel. None of the boxes were interchangeable left panel to right panel. The boxes were numbered as you show.

Don

[Jennings]

Right, but why are the numbered that way when there are six guns? Makes no sense whatever to me.

[Flankerman]

I can't contribute much to this discussion - other than to say what a great diorama those last two of jari's links would make.....

Ken

[greatgonzo]

As said above the numbering of the boxes is not connected with guns at all. It shows the position of the box in the wing panel. In other words would it fit that specific hole ;).

[niart17]

ahhh...so that does make sense. Odd numbers were the deep boxes, 1 being left 3 being right. Even numbers were the shallow boxes 2 & 4 respectively. Interesting stuff there.

Bill

[greatgonzo]

When the 'three tone' scheme appeared and 'two tone' Birdcages where still operational it was common to see BG boxes mounted on SB wing panels. 'Borrowed' from other squadrons in maintenance melee or just old delivery. Typical for Solomons and famous Blackburn's Big Hog is an example that comes first in mind. Pics of Bunker Hill VF-17 trials show that too nicely presenting walkaway lines on new craft too.