Jozef Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Well, I only looked at your site now, Eli. If all those are included which I can see presented there under 32nd, neglect my note above (at least with respect to me). I am going to get it. Best to all Jozef Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gene K Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 48th drives all decal sales, w/ 72nd being a pittance comparatively. Interesting "statistic". Is that worldwide or just in the good ol' US? Gene K Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eli Raphael Posted September 5, 2014 Author Share Posted September 5, 2014 Interesting "statistic". Is that worldwide or just in the good ol' US? Gene K For us, USA and Canada. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big Texan Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 Very nice Eli! How about a sheet for some Spanish F4-C/D's, American and Spanish Air Force at Torrejon! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andre Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 The color reference comes directly from a crew chief that worked on them during the war. It looks fresher that the rest of the 30219 applied. That's because it was new paint. Great pic - that does indeed look more fresh 30219 than Radome Tan. Thanks again! Interesting "statistic". Is that worldwide or just in the good ol' US? Over here in Ye Olde Country, we have 1/48th people complaining about the plethora of 1/72nd stuff. Go figure. But then again - it's the prerogative of each company what they want to release, after all. Cheers, Andre Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 I wonder when this sales thing started to happen. It sure wasn't back when there were decal sheets and kits coming out right and left in 1/72, and Monogram had 12 1/48 kits in their catalog. (okay, maybe it was 15) I will grant that it might be "too big of a risk" for the small decal companies. But, the large ones just keep on rolling along releasing 1/72 sheets. It is puzzling to read this on the internet, and then to look at the Microscale/Superscale paper catalog, leaving out their current separate sheets,,,at one time they were selling 690 1/72 sheets, 491 1/48 sheets, and 136 1/32 sheets,,,,,,that was just before the Internet Popped up. (there were more subjects in 1/72, because those sheets had more on each than the 1/48 and 1/32) I do need to admit that I missed buying about a dozen of the US Naval sheets back in those days. Oh well, I am not complaining,,,,,the shortage of decal sheets makes my collection more exclusive,,,,,,as long as I can find enough of the Insignia, data, and walkways sheets it takes to build from these. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gmat Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) Grizzly, as marked for 1972, 7-038, 'War Lover' would not have had the LES slats installed. Look here at the Project Rivet Haste program. http://combatace.com/topic/55744-f-4-rivet-haste/ Some more info here. http://aviationtrivia.blogspot.jp/2011/10/rivet-haste-rebirth-of-usaf-at-end-of.html Apparently the Rivet Haste F-4Es arrived in flew out of Udorn from 20 Nov.72 until 13 Jan 73, and then assumed the 555th TFS designation. Any mods to earlier F-4Es would have been done in 1973 or later. Note; the 555th TFS F-4Es became the 25th TFS, still with no tail code when the 555th TFS designator moved to Luke AFB to become the 'first' F-15 unit. The 34th TFS later exchanged their F-4Es for F-4Ds while at Korat. So the time frame for a 34th TFS LES F-4E might be limited. Possibly the 555th TFS F-4Ds might have gone to the 34th TFS. See photos here. http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/2/t/110183.aspx?sort=DESC The last thread photos were posted by Ikar, who also lurks here. The F-4E with the UD tail code and the spider on the white fin tip would be from the 421st TFS, but now assigned to the 432 TFW (ex TRW) at Udorn. By this time, around 1975, it has the LES that you are looking for. Best wishes, Grant Edited September 5, 2014 by gmat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eli Raphael Posted September 5, 2014 Author Share Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) Grant hi, So this photo is not during the war? This is War Lover Edited September 5, 2014 by Eli Raphael Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gmat Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) Not in 1972. But if you took it in 1972, I will stand corrected. Nice photo. grant Grant hi, So this photo is not during the war? This is War Lover Edited September 5, 2014 by gmat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F4DPhantomII Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Very nice decals.What will the price be for 1/48 ones?.First time I have saw tan noses on some of them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grizzly Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Grizzly, as marked for 1972, 7-038, 'War Lover' would not have had the LES slats installed. Look here at the Project Rivet Haste program. http://combatace.com/topic/55744-f-4-rivet-haste/ Some more info here. http://aviationtrivia.blogspot.jp/2011/10/rivet-haste-rebirth-of-usaf-at-end-of.html Apparently the Rivet Haste F-4Es arrived in flew out of Udorn from 20 Nov.72 until 13 Jan 73, and then assumed the 555th TFS designation. Any mods to earlier F-4Es would have been done in 1973 or later. Note; the 555th TFS F-4Es became the 25th TFS, still with no tail code when the 555th TFS designator moved to Luke AFB to become the 'first' F-15 unit. The 34th TFS later exchanged their F-4Es for F-4Ds while at Korat. So the time frame for a 34th TFS LES F-4E might be limited. Possibly the 555th TFS F-4Ds might have gone to the 34th TFS. See photos here. http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/2/t/110183.aspx?sort=DESC The last thread photos were posted by Ikar, who also lurks here. The F-4E with the UD tail code and the spider on the white fin tip would be from the 421st TFS, but now assigned to the 432 TFW (ex TRW) at Udorn. By this time, around 1975, it has the LES that you are looking for. Best wishes, Grant Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grizzly Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Not in 1972. But if you took it in 1972, I will stand corrected. Nice photo. grant This is the first time I see a complete picture of War Lover, Thanks Eli Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TomCooper Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 They will be available in 2 parts and in both 1/48 & 1/32. Going to the printers next week. Another question related to one of 388th's F-4E: the last I've heard of her (and that was in early 1990s), El Toro Bravo is said to have got that 'MiG-kill marking' applied, but that she actually never scored a kill. Is it meanwhile known what was the case, and when should that MiG-kill have occurred (date)? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dehowie Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 That is chinless F-4Cs for the *Last few* airframes,,,,,not the first few years. Coupled with chinless F-4Ds for the first few airframes. The "chinless" Phantoms were covered in print in 1977 by Squadron, 1973 by Aircam, and 1970 by Airfix Magazine,,,,with decals by AMT/Hasegawa in their earliest Phantom tooling. Not quite just "a few" Rex. There where plenty of Chinless F-4C's and D's tearing around including many of the Bolo F-4's. By the first few i was referring to the Vietnam war not the F-4. Just wondering what Squadron publication discusses the radome? As for the others they are long gone and most people, dont even know USAF F-4's flew without chin pods for some time through 67 and 68 and maybe later. Take a look at most Operation Bolo builds of Olds aircraft which didn't have one. The odd photo here and there gives the impression it was one in every hundred but it far more widespread than that. It just appears there where very few images being shot buy USAF photographers at that time. Also what Hasegawa Phantom had USAF markings in a C/D without a chin? Interested to know. Cheers Darren Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Sorry, Darren,,,,,but, the kit was an old one, it was one of the releases by AMT/Hasegawa (# A-655 is what mine says on the box), it predates a Minicraft/Hasegawa #JS-21 with a different aircraft as the F-4D. These two kits included F-4D and F-4J decals in them. They came out before the newer Minicraft/Hasegawa # 021 with just the two USN F-4J decals. These are the kits that so many either claim weren't tooled by Hasegawa or claim "they are the same" as the later Hasegawa F-4E toolings. (they were made in Japan, the AMT says so right on the box) I am sorry that I seem to have the only copies of so many of the old books,,,,,,,,,but, even today using the internet,,,,,you can pin point which blocks had late F-4C and early F-4D that had no IR fairings on them. Just subtract out all the Iranian F-4Ds, and then look at the tails of "all of those photos" and see how many times you are looking at the same airframe in different colors or codes. Contrary to popular belief,,,,US Phantoms moved from unit to unit, got repainted while staying in the same unit, and got photographed in more that one mission, so there is NO "64-0937 looked like THIS", there is only "64-0937 looked like this when this photo was taken" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dehowie Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Exactly Rex.. I have several images at different times of Wolfpack birds without only to show them refitted within a month or so with later Radomes. I have a good collection of images now. Its interesting that it seems several books picked it up early on yet it seems most later books omit the information entirely. All very cool stuff. Looking forward to Eli's decals to add more cool F-4 stuff to the pot! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 I agree with you on that. This F-4E stuff is golden,,,,,,and can even help some of us "wrong scalers" that have old MS or SS sheets with a few of these old Es on them. Betty Lou and Wreckin' Crew are two that come to mind off the top of my head. Adding Eli's post to MS decals will work for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gene K Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Grant and Rex, I really appreciate your sharing!!! Gene K Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Petarvu Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 No hijack intention, But is it possible to build early E ,unslatted, from Hasegawa EJ 1/48 kit? From top of my head , after removing wingtip ecm blisters that might be it...? I have only one Promodeller unslated E box, and afaik I will need more than one when Zotz sheet comes out.. Thanks P Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F4DPhantomII Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Yes you can build the USAF F-4E early(no slats) from the early F-4EJ kit.I believe that is the kit Pro Modeler used. Any of the F-4EJ Kai kits would recquire mods to the tail surface and wingtips. I pick up kits(Pro Modeler)F-4E at model contests vendors when I can find them.I like to find kits where the wing does not have the Navy landing gear bump on top of them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrvark Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) The story I heard from a McDD tech rep (I think) on the radomes is this: The F-4Bs used the chins to house infrared search and track (IRST--or whatever it was called back then). The USAF didn't want that option, and asked that the chin be removed. When McDD told them how much it would cost to modify the contract to remove the chin, they decided to keep the orignal design. When the radome contract came up for renewal, McDD asked the USAF if they still wanted to remove the chin and they said they did. So a batch of radomes without the chin were produced. By the time the next contract renewal came up, there was a need for the chin bump again. Whether that was related to USN requirements, or if the USAF decided that that was a convenient place for RHAW antennas, or a combination of the two, I don't know, but the chins were back to stay on USAF jets. It's worth noting that a change to the outer mold line (OML) can affect store separation. Whether or not this factored into the USAF decision or not, I don't know. But the USAF carried bombs on the centerline station a lot, so this may have influenced their decision. Navy F-4s on the other hand usually carried a fuel tank on the centerline, at least aboard CVs, so when they removed the chin on their J models, that would have been less of a concern. BTW: Radomes can be moved from one jet to another or used as replacements for worn out or damaged radomes. So, while the last batch of Cs and the early Ds seem to have gotten them coming off the production line, they were probably installed on other jets as well. Also, in contemporary books, there was speculation that the size of the radome had changed--that was obviously (now) mistaken. Edited September 17, 2014 by mrvark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Smith Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 So this explains why the old Revell kit keeps going up in price every time I see one listed for sale! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shawn M Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 great options, please let us know when avail! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sgt Shultz II Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 I'm interested in the 1/32 set with El Toro Bravo for sure!! When will they be available and where do I get them??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eli Raphael Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 I'm interested in the 1/32 set with El Toro Bravo for sure!! When will they be available and where do I get them??? You will be able to get them directly from me or later thru Sprue Bros, Stevens Int, Hannants or Scott's Model Workshop. Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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